Catholic Thought discussion
Redeemer in the Womb
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Chapters 5 & 6
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I found this surprising:
I suppose that’s true. Until this book I had not realized there had been much contemplation of Jesus inside of Mary’s womb.
In the history of the Church, no school of theology and spirituality has given Jesus’ life in Mary more attention than the seventeenth-century French School, of which Pierre Cardinal de Bérulle (1575–1629)…was the chief inspiration.
I suppose that’s true. Until this book I had not realized there had been much contemplation of Jesus inside of Mary’s womb.
This book is the first time I've come across it. It's pretty clueless, but I never really gave much thought to it.
Manny wrote: "I found this surprising:In the history of the Church, no school of theology and spirituality has given Jesus’ life in Mary more attention than the seventeenth-century French School, of which Pierre Cardinal de Bérulle (1575–1629)…was the chief inspiration."
So interesting, Manny. I'll look into it. I think my wife has a book on French Catholic Church spirituality.
So Kerstin sent me an email last night that she has to rush to Germany to be with her mother. Kerstin’s mother has been fighting cancer and perhaps a critical situation has come up. Let’s hold Kerstin and her mom in our prayers. I will now take over moderating this book to its completion.
Frances wrote: "If you email her, Manny, please let Kerstin know of our concern and our prayers."
OK. I will. She'll eventually see these comments I'm sure.
OK. I will. She'll eventually see these comments I'm sure.
I found this passage in chapter 5 fascinating and worth deeper meditation.
That God the Son adores God the Father is evident in John’s chapter seventeen when Jesus gives His farewell discourse and great final prayer.
I’m surprised Seward doesn’t allude to it, but here God worships God, the Father the Son and the Son the Father. I guess one could see this worship beginning in the womb with the Incarnation. John’s passage is a statement of the hour of His glory, when at the altar of the cross Jesus will offer Himself in sacrifice. Bérulle see the Virgin’s heart as the very first altar.
The marvel of the Incarnation is this: it enables God to worship God. God the Son in his humanity adores God the Father, with whom, in his divinity, he is coequal. What is more, this filial worship of the Father begins at the first moment of the Incarnation and has its first sanctuary in the Virgin’s womb. Bérulle, who had a thorough knowledge of the Greek Fathers, repeats what Cyril, Proclus, and Andrew of Crete had recognized before him—namely, that the Virgin’s pure womb, unshadowed by any sin, containing the divine Word himself, is “the holy or sacred temple where Jesus reposes, the true Ark of the true Covenant . . . and the Virgin’s heart is the first altar on which Jesus offered his heart, his body, his spirit, as a victim of perpetual praise.” When Christ comes into the world, he surrenders his new human body and will to the service of the Father: “Lo, I have come to do thy will, O God” (Heb. 10:5–10; cf. Ps. 40:6–8).
That God the Son adores God the Father is evident in John’s chapter seventeen when Jesus gives His farewell discourse and great final prayer.
When Jesus had said this, he raised his eyes to heaven and said, “Father, the hour has come. Give glory to your son, so that your son may glorify you, just as you gave him authority over all people, so that he may give eternal life to all you gave him. Now this is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ. I glorified you on earth by accomplishing the work that you gave me to do. Now glorify me, Father, with you, with the glory that I had with you before the world began. (Jn 17:1-5)
I’m surprised Seward doesn’t allude to it, but here God worships God, the Father the Son and the Son the Father. I guess one could see this worship beginning in the womb with the Incarnation. John’s passage is a statement of the hour of His glory, when at the altar of the cross Jesus will offer Himself in sacrifice. Bérulle see the Virgin’s heart as the very first altar.




In the seventeenth century the French School of Spirituality was inspired by Pierre Cardinal de Bérulle (1575–1629). They devoted much time to Jesus’ time in the womb. Bérulle is quoted throughout the chapter.
A ‘Copernican’ Christology
The Unborn State of Christ
The Visitation
Jesus in Mary: A Union of Hearts
The French Poet Paul Claudel expressed it in this way:
The Graces of Mary’s Womb Burden
The Good by God the Christ an Embryo
“Oh Wonderful and Incomprehensible Dependence of God”
St. Louis-Marie On Jesus in Mary’s Womb