Goodreads Librarians Group discussion

Not sure if this is where to ask this question but what is happening with the Dramatized Adaptation editions of the 400+ books that have them? The ones that are on my shelves are all saying they go against community standards. Is this a new policy that came into effect at the beginning of January? Is GR no longer recognizing them as books?

They are not valid books according to the Goodreads policy and they most likely never were.

So is it only that some of the Dramatized Adaptation editions meet the guidelines? They are all audiobooks available through Amazon/Audible produced by the same publisher. I’m confused. Is it the listing that was suddenly flagged as going against policy? It’s happened to 5 books on my shelves. In one case book one of a series is against guidelines but books 2-5 aren’t. I’m just wondering if there is a rule or GR policy saying that these editions of certain bestselling books are not valid editions of books.

Dramatizations are not audio books and shouldn't be added. Unfortunately there are too many for us to keep up with which is why you may see inconsistency .

Scott wrote: "Dramatizations are not audio books and shouldn't be added. Unfortunately there are too many for us to keep up with which is why you may see inconsistency ."

Thank you. That’s what I was after. GR official view on Dramatized Adaptations and if they agreed with what Amazon/Audible says. Evidently they don’t agree with their parent company.

Which I find very strange since that in itself goes against GR guidelines from what I understand. I just looked on Amazon at the listing for Fourth Wing Dramatized Adaptation pt. 1 and it says in 5 different places under the product details that it is an audiobook.

Well, a dramatization is not an audiobook. They are completely different.

Scott wrote: "Dramatizations are not audio books and shouldn't be added. Unfortunately there are too many for us to keep up with which is why you may see inconsistency ."

Actually they are still audiobooks. Just enhanced audiobooks, with multiple narrators voicing the characters and sound effects to create a more immersive listening experience. They are also more often than not just adaptations of existing books and there is nothing in current written GR policy that would prevent them from meeting the valid book criteria.

"Audio productions of books, not recordings of theatrical productions (the format should be "audiobook" or "Audible Audio" if the record has an ASIN)"

Dramatized audiobooks are audio productions of a book, not recordings of theatrical productions (e.g. audio recording of plays/musicals/operas/etc)

source: https://help.goodreads.com/s/article/...

Example of graphic audiobook adaptation that current GR policy should consider a valid book: https://www.graphicaudio.net/throne-o..., though as an adaptation it is a separate work that stands on its own.

Example of BBC radio dramatization audiobook that was ruled valid:
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...
(see comments #4-#7 of https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/... for context)

For more info on audiobook dramatizations vs traditional audiobooks see:
https://www.behear.co.uk/lights-camer....

The GR term "theatrical productions" (inadequately defined in the manual as usual) in practice (meaning applied by staff & librarians) over my time here has really been limited to audio recordings of live theater performances (plays/musicals/comedy shows) and not adaptations of existing valid works.

Scott wrote: "Well, a dramatization is not an audiobook. They are completely different."

Dramatized adaptions should still be considered audio books as that is exactly what they are. Not sure why this is suddenly becoming an issue now. I want to be able to shelve and review them with my other books and count them towards my goal

It's always been the policy. It's not new at all.

Then the policy needs to change. We should be able to review them like any other "audiobook" whether dramatized or not. It helps others decide whether they are worth a listen.

There are two different types of dramatized audiobooks.

There are the adaptations that have an additional author, who writes a script using the original book as inspiration, as if it were a movie like the 1984 dramatized adaptation that was listed as a nominee in the new audiobook section of the goodreads choice awards last year:

https://www.goodreads.com/choiceaward...

This is one of the original books: 1984

This is the adaptation with the additional author, Joe White, who adapted George Orwell's masterpiece of a book: George Orwell’s 1984: An Audible Original adaptation

Then there are the dramatized versions that are the original books with no additional author that are scored with a full cast narration. GraphicAudio has been doing a lot of these with existing books with single narrators, but the content of the audiobook is not changed for the original, such as the newly adapted Brandon Sanderson books like Tress of the Emerald Sea which was originally narrated by Michael Kramer, but is also now available with a full cast Tress of the Emerald Sea: A Cosmere Novel Dramatized Adaptation : Secret Projects 1. The GraphicAudio dramatized version does not have an additional author, just Brandon Sanderson.

While I can understand that a book that has been changed from it's original and is put on as a production, sometimes significantly shorter than the original book, would not be considered the same as the original book, are we also saying that one of Brandon Sanderson's books is no longer considered a book because they added music and multiple narrators?

Panda wrote: "There are two different types of dramatized audiobooks.

There are the adaptations that have an additional author, who writes a script using the original book as inspiration, as if it were a movie ..."

In this instance I’m speaking of the 400+ Dramatized Adaptations that Graphic Audio has produced/published. Currently they are basically the only DA publisher of note. And, like your Brandon Sanderson example, my example has been number #1 on the sale charts for years - Rebecca Yarros’ FOURTH WING. So is GR policy now saying that an edition 4th Wing is no longer a book because of multiple narrators, the addition of music and sounds and the elimination of the words “____ said”?

Also, if this has always been policy then why has it suddenly taken hold in Jan? I bought a ton of Graphic Audio editions in the Audible up to 85% off sale in December and every single one that I attempted to add to my shelves was accessible. Now, less than a month later they are not.

Brittany wrote: "Scott wrote: "Well, a dramatization is not an audiobook. They are completely different."

Dramatized adaptions should still be considered audio books as that is exactly what they are. Not sure why ..."

The addition of these book editions to my shelves and different book challenges/goals is what brought the issue to my attention. Everything was fine for 2024 but 2025 rolled in and a whole bunch of the DA editions have disappeared from the GR catalog due to being classified as “against regulations”.

Tal wrote: "Scott wrote: "Dramatizations are not audio books and shouldn't be added. Unfortunately there are too many for us to keep up with which is why you may see inconsistency ."

Actually they are still a..."

So then what is the actual answer? Or are you saying there is no answer because GR policy hasn’t bothered to actually address this somewhat new type of audiobook edition? I mean, Graphic Audio has been publishing dramatized adaptations since 2020.

Question Also, if this has always been policy then why has it suddenly taken hold in Jan? I bought a ton of Graphic Audio editions in the Audible up to 85% off sale in December and every single one that I attempted to add to my shelves was accessible. Now, less than a month later they are not.

Answer 1 Message 4 Dramatizations are not audio books and shouldn't be added. Unfortunately there are too many for us to keep up with which is why you may see inconsistency .

Answer 2 (from me) There are thousands of Goodreads librarians & millions of books. In addition up to June 2022 Anyone could add a book to Goodreads. This resulted in a lot of poor quality/against policy adds. So against policy adds are dealt with as a librarian or staff member who knows policy comes across them.

Another librarian has asked for clarification in this thread. https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

The moderator is based in South Africa & it is the early hours of Monday morning there.

I would give her a few days. She has a big workload & she will likely have to consult with other staff.

Megan Riverina Romantics wrote: "So then what is the actual answer? Or are you saying there is no answer because GR policy hasn’t bothered to actually address this somewhat new type of audiobook edition?"

GR policy addressed these not so new dramatizations as far back as 2011. This dramatized audio was ruled a valid book by the head librarian and GR employee at the time - 2011.

In 2015 this dramatized audio was ruled a valid book by the head librarian and GR employee at the time.

Again, the litmus test was always whether the audio production was based on a published work and was merely a dramatized reading of the book.

In practice these types of audio productions have been considered valid books and added to the GR database going back almost 15 years. That's the reality. The only thing that's "new" regarding this situation is that a great deal of GR institutional knowledge is gone from the site with the departure of long time employees and volunteer librarians and in that vacuum you start getting more inconsistent application of policy based on what definition of "theatrical productions" librarians/support choose to use when interpreting the manual because they don't have that practical experience first hand. *shrugs*

Tal wrote: "Megan Riverina Romantics wrote: "So then what is the actual answer? Or are you saying there is no answer because GR policy hasn’t bothered to actually address this somewhat new type of audiobook ed..."

Thank you so much for the input. What you’re saying makes sense. I just couldn’t fathom how Amazon would consider a DA a valid edition of a book but GR wouldn’t when they basically have to follow what Amazon says.

Megan Riverina Romantics wrote: "I just couldn’t fathom how Amazon would consider a DA a valid edition of a book but GR wouldn’t when they basically have to follow what Amazon says."

You have to remember that up to 2013 Amazon & Goodreads were completely separate companies, that had different policies. For example, the star ratings mean different things, the definitions of what makes a series are different on both websites.

Megan Riverina Romantics wrote: "Thank you so much for the input. What you’re saying makes sense. I just couldn’t fathom how Amazon would consider a DA a valid edition of a book but GR wouldn’t when they basically have to follow what Amazon says."

They don't have to follow what Amazon says, and often don't. They have different series #'ing rules than Amazon for example. Even if going forward TPTB decide to give them the not-a-book treatment, it's not the end of the world. You can add these types of audiobooks and many other books that GR doesn't allow on almost any other book tracking site. You can even add them yourself. :P

Tal wrote: "Megan Riverina Romantics wrote: "Thank you so much for the input. What you’re saying makes sense. I just couldn’t fathom how Amazon would consider a DA a valid edition of a book but GR wouldn’t whe..."

Wait, if Amazon says something is a book GR doesn’t have to agree? I thought that as parent company what they say goes on certain subjects. What is or isn’t considered a valid edition of a book seems like it would be one of those things. The numbering in a series seems like a smaller issue so therefore not so ironclad.

As far as a new book tracking site I’ve got 14 years of data and thousands of books on my shelves. Switching sites isn’t exactly an easy feat LOL. Plus, I may no longer use the social aspect of GR but I have fond memories of when I did. Also, my primary libraries are Kindle and Audible so using a book tracking site that’s connected to those companies makes sense to me. Previous sites that I tried are all gone now. GR has lasted through the years.

Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ wrote: "Megan Riverina Romantics wrote: "Up to 2013 Amazon & GR were separate companies…"

That means that they’ve had more than a decade to align their policies. How long does it take for an acquired company to adopt their parent company’s policies? I can see it taking a while for the smaller things to fall into place. However something like defining the different editions of a book seems like a big subject.

How is it that either Amazon or GR can define what a series is? Isn’t that up to either the publisher or author?

As far as ⭐️ ratings go every site is different it seems. Nobody follows the same rating system. And don’t even get me started on the craziness that is considered 🌶️ rating. That’s just out of control and 100% subjective.

As someone who uses multiple book tracking websites, this update really made me add GR to the "use less" list. GraphicsAudio are books that are read word for word just like an audiobook. The differences is that they have MULTIPLE narrators instead of 1-2 and make background and acting effects for dramatic effect. They dont change the text. They just read it up in a different way. I understand this is a decision from GR but by also not letting user transfer their reading progress by doing a merge instead of the books, well...it's so disrespectful.

Panda wrote: "There are two different types of dramatized audiobooks.

There are the adaptations that have an additional author, who writes a script using the original book as inspiration, as if it were a movie ..."

Thank you for the explanation. I think the problem here is that they are being referred to as dramatized adaptations which suggests that they are akin to films or old radio dramas. You can't blame people for misunderstanding. Something like "full cast reading" would be better.

Megan Riverina Romantics wrote:

"That means that they’ve had more than a decade to align their policies. How long do..."

I'm curious. What do you like better about the way Amazon does series - which is basically whatever the author/publisher wants?

GraphicAudio's own description of what they produce:
"GraphicAudio 'A Movie In Your Mind' - Full Cast Dramatized Audiobook Entertainment"

What is acceptable is ultimately up to Jaclyn and rest of the staff. This reminds me of The Great Courses decision. It could be the time has come for them to take a look at dramatized editions from GraphicAudio and consider adding them to list of what is acceptable.

I've listened to GraphicAudio of books I've read in print and GA did the books unlike the very abridged dramatizations by others years ago but they are dramatization not word for word narration.

For what it's worth I don't and wouldn't add them. I don't think they qualify under current guidelines. I don't change their status when I see them because guidelines can and do change. If the ones I have on my shelves change to hardback, well, such is life, I'm not going to stress out over it.

Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ wrote: "Megan Riverina Romantics wrote:

"What do you like better about the way Amazon does series - w..."

Maybe we should define the differences in the ways GR does a series vs. Amazon so we know what specifics we’re talking about because I’m not 100% sure. What exactly does GR do differently than Amazon? I can only think of a few instances where series orders are different on the sites. One being when there are “in between” books or novellas in the series. They’re generally considered “half books” and given a place setting of _.5 in the series line up on GR and Audible but not on Amazon. I hate that Amazon doesn’t list them that way. I feel that the in between books should be listed in the series with the rest of the books. I believe that they should be listed this way because that is what the author wants and it’s their work. They’re the definitive expert on how they want their work perceived. On the other hand however GR doesn’t always do what the authors want for their creations. For instance, recently Evangeline Anderson took her Kindred Tales series (approx. 50 books) and broke it down into multiple little series. I absolutely believe in her right to do this since it’s her creation however although things have been changed on Amazon to follow her wishes they haven’t here on GR. It causes confusion because now the books are listed differently on the different sites. But then I consider Jeaniene Frost’s Night Huntress Universe. There used to be a series listing/reading order here on GR consisting of the three series and 2 standalone books within the universe. Unfortunately it’s no longer here but at least there’s a link to her website so you can find the list. There’s nothing to tie the different books together on Amazon.

So basically… I guess neither GR nor Amazon lists the series correctly because I feel that no matter what, a series should be listed the way an author wants it.

I figure if the titles have numbers, then they should be a series. I did an author back in 2023 who has 8 anthologies that he has curated. Amazon says they are a series. The publisher says they are a series. The author...yada, yada, yada. I was brand new and didn't know any better and so I created a series. I got a slight reprimand and was told to create a list. I was unaware of lists. This was before they had their own folder. From what I have seen they do not seem to be worth the hassle.

I don't get where having series hurts anything. If bandwidth is the issue, then perhaps they could corral the bots.

So basically… I guess neither GR nor Amazon lists the series correctly because I feel that no matter what, a series should be listed the way an author wants it.

I think it is best to have series in a way that works for readers.

The manual - which isn't complete.
https://help.goodreads.com/s/article/...

I would ignore anything about comics & manga as they are best left to librarians who specialise in them.

Having the series the way the author wants it falls down in the case of dead authors

The late M.M. Kaye had books here the Death In.. books. Originally only one of the books was called Death in... but they were all renamed in a rebranding exercise to make readers think you needed to read them all. No common universe, no common characters. Done to increase sales. I'm not sure if this was done before or after her death.

Then my beloved Georgette Heyer There are four of her books correctly combined as this series.
https://www.goodreads.com/series/5191...
The others are standalones - no common characters, not all take place in London, but every now & then someone makes a series out of them. The last couple of times the 'series' has been called Regency, when some of the novels are Georgian/late Georgian. I really don't see the value in that. when a book is a standalone, I want to know its a standalone.

&, hypothetically speaking, if TPTB decree that thousands of series are going to be changed over to how Amazon displays them or what the author wants, who will change them?

Almost everything here is now very behind, especially Adding New Books. I certainly wouldn't be keen.

As a reader of series I like how Goodreads does series.

Authors and publishers often list books as series for monetary reasons not because they are connected. I've known authors to say they listed books as series because publishers told them to for more sales not because the books are connected.

One of the greatest things about Goodreads is that series really are series not just random groups of books some people in publishing decided would sell better if listed as series.

L J wrote: "It could be the time has come for them to take a look at dramatized editions from GraphicAudio and consider adding them to list of what is acceptable."

I definitely agree with this. Although some dramatized adaptations aren’t necessarily altogether new, GraphicAudio undoubtedly has the market cornered on them ATM. So much so that people use GraphicAudio and dramatized adaptation interchangeably. From what I can tell GA started to publish these types of dramatized adaptations in 2020. They’re obviously not going to go away anytime soon so a definite answer and mention in the manual should be considered. That way there’s no room for misunderstanding.

Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ wrote: "Hypothetically speaking…”

Everything after that is so extremely true!

Thanks for your feedback here. I'm closing this thread in favour of this one