You'll love this one...!! A book club & more discussion

Margo and I miss having a buddy read for a fantasy series. We are going to read the Rise and Fall trilogy starting with Nolyn. We'd love more people to join in.

Start date is open and flexible. I was thinking sometime in March. Any preferences?

Thanks for setting this up Janice :-)

March is good for me, but as always, I'm easy!

Should we plan to read it around March 8th?

Apologies Janice, I forgot to check the box to get notified when people comment. It's my least favourite of the recent changes to GR, I got used to system where you had to opt out rather than opt in! Suppose I'll eventually get used to it.

Anyway, March 8th is good for me.

I might post it on the Watcha Doin' thread in case people don't see it here. I know we have lot of fantasy fans in the group.

I was thinking Peggy might be interested, but I haven't seen her post in a while.

I don't use notifications. I use the unread option. After I post this I'll go to top of page and click on "unread topics" just under the search discussion posts.

It's a great series! I would have joined if I hadn't read it already not so long ago. If I remember I'll check the thread and see if I remember enough of it to add to the discussion :)

Perfect! It will be great to have your comments, Peggy.

I'm going to start this one tomorrow. I have 3-1/2 hours left on my current read.

Great, I just finished my book and will start this evening :-)

Perfect.

The foreword was interesting. I didn't know that Michael his own company, very successfully, while writing. The man must be unstoppable! I got to somewhere chapter 4.

Chapter 1:
(view spoiler)[What a nail biting opening, immediately we are sucked into the action. Nolyn is established as a brave leader willing to sacrifice himself for the good of his people - a breed that is getting rarer these days! (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 2 and 4
(view spoiler)[ We meet Sephryn, who seems to even older than Noyln! I had to laugh when it turned out that the person she was so was so nervous of was actually her childs nurse. Soon stopped laughing though with the discovery that the nurse was dead and the child taken. Who is this person that can speak directly into into her mind?

The monk is interesting, I think its safe to assume that he'll be important to tale. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 3
(view spoiler)[
Profit seems useful in a fight! It's less amazing that they survived the goblin attack when we find out that he passed on some pointers to his spears. (hide spoiler)]

I managed to read the first chapter. It was nice getting back to Elan and the feel of Michael's writing. I was (view spoiler)[sad to think that Nolan was resigned to his fate and the fate of those that remained with him. At the end of the chapter it seemed that he alone had survived. (hide spoiler)]

Yes, Michael has quite a history with his battle with the publishers, and is one of the best indie success stories.

I read to the end of Chapter 4

(view spoiler)[Whew! Nolyn survived as did his first sword and others.

I had to chuckle at Sephryn thinking the monk looked like a gerbil, and that he was cute. My brother had a couple of gerbils when we were kids, and then they bred. We had lots of gerbils. Cute? Ummm, no so much.

It's interesting how time will change things - Monks looked up to Bran as if he was a diety. And Sephryn was all 'What?? MY Bran? You've got to be kidding me.'

It was horrific coming home to a blood bath. Her child was spared and now she is to steal the horn. I wonder who is behind that, and what they hope to gain to have possession of it. (hide spoiler)]

Janice wrote: "I read to the end of Chapter 4

..."

LOL I'm picturing young Janice hunting baby Gerbils! I had a hamster, not my favourite pet. He kept biting me.

There're lots of funny little comments sprinkled into the writing that make me smile and breaks the tension. I'd say he has fun when he's writing.

I've been chuckling at various comments throughout. The banter between Nolyn and his men is fun.

Chapter 6
(view spoiler)[ Well, it seems that the kidnapper and the person scheming to kill Nolyn are one and the same - Mawlyn. He's working on the emperors orders re Nolyn but I'm wondering if his desire for the horn is his idea alone. I think a horn was mentioned in the last chapter that summoned the Goblins, is this the same type of horn that Mawlyn wants Sephryn to steal? I wonder he wants both father and son out of the way?
(hide spoiler)]

Chapter 7

(view spoiler)[ That weasel is back. What's his name Mawyn or something. He's the spoiled son of a king. He's the voice in Sephron's head. Apparently, he can make himself known in others as well. (hide spoiler)]

Margo wrote: "Chapter 6.."

(view spoiler)[He was always scheming to get the highest accolades he could. Hopefully, this latest scheme will get him in extremely hot water. What a vile creature. (hide spoiler)]

Janice wrote: "Chapter 7

[spoilers removed]"

(view spoiler)[I figured he had probably cropped up in Elan before. Those scenes with the demon were surreal (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 9
(view spoiler)[ So Sephryns child is Nolyns - he plot thickens! I knew from comments made that they had history but I wasn't expecting that. That seems to reduce the odds of the kids survival
(hide spoiler)]

I didn't read any of the book yesterday. I had a very busy day. I have a quieter day today.

Same here. Well, not busy but not reading either. I have a sinus infection and I'm feeling quite sorry for myself *sniff*

Yuck! I don't blame you for feeling sorry for yourself. Get better soon.

I finished to the end of Chapter 9

(view spoiler)[ I was struck by this quote, "Sephryn also knew that if everyone took offense at everything, society was doomed." That seems to be what is happening in the world right now. People are way too easy to take offense at the least little thing.

The legate had a nasty death. I wonder what happened. Nolyn had left the room and all they heard was squelching noises. (hide spoiler)]

Janice wrote: "Yuck! I don't blame you for feeling sorry for yourself. Get better soon.

I finished to the end of Chapter 9

..."

(view spoiler)[ Political correctness is gone mad ( in most circles, there are notable exceptions). You have to be so careful what you say these days, especially when the younger generation is listening. I know we used to inocently use words that were completely unacceptable but this sanitising of literature has gone too far. Removing words like "fat" is just he know it was coming

I think the worst part about the legates grusome end was that he knew it coming.

(hide spoiler)]

Chapter 10
(view spoiler)[ Did Arvis have a child that was lost or that died? It's so difficult to know with this character. There definitely seems to be something going on with the bakers family (from a previous chapter) as she is so convinced that they owe her bread. I hope we find out what happened to her head to make her this confused, and I hope even more that it can be fixed.

(hide spoiler)]

Margo wrote: "Janice wrote: "Yuck! I don't blame you for feeling sorry for yourself. Get better soon.

I finished to the end of Chapter 9

..."

Political correctness is gone mad ( in most circles, there are n..."

I agree. (view spoiler)[ I was having lunch with a friend and she was relating a story of her niece who took offense to people being called "addicts" because she thought it was demeaning. My friend called her niece "woke". So she took offense at her niece who took offense. Where does it end? (hide spoiler)]

I had a super busy day yesterday and didn't get a chance to read. I'll catch up today. I hope you're feeling better Margo.

Feeling a good bit better thanks Janice. The meds are starting to kick. I got flu (yes, proper flu!) over xmas and it left me with this dose. I've been battling it with sinus rinses, zinc and massage, but I finally had to admit defeat and get antibiotics.

I'm getting a good run at reading today and I'm really enjoying the story.

Chapter 11
(view spoiler)[ So, Nolyns father forced a tattoo on him that Nolyn saw as punishment (reminiscent of the Live Ships trilogy), but it transpires that it might saved his life. The question is, if he actually loves his son, why not explain to him? Why does Prophet have same tattoo?

BTW, I have huge sympathy for anyone who gets seasick. There is a good reason I'll never go on a cruise (besides the cost)!
(hide spoiler)]

Chapter 12
(view spoiler)[ Seymour just got a lot more interesting! What exactly happened when he was mugged? Arvis was sure he'd been stabbed, but he says the knife missed. Hmmm

The symbols Seymour found keep "the voice" from seeing and hearing what they're doing. Sephryn realises that these symbols protect the palace, that's why she couldn't communicate with it inside the buildings walls. Is this the same ruin that Nolon and Profit are marked with?

(hide spoiler)]

I'm somewhere in the middle of chapter 11, so I'll comment to the end of Chapter 10.

I have questions. (view spoiler)[ Was led to Sephron's baby? By whom? By Mawyn? If so, why?

I don't remember her. Was she in the previous books? (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 13
(view spoiler)[ Legate Farnell and his troops have been hearing a voice that prophesied the arrival of Nolyn and his men. Could this be the same voice that Seraphyn hears? If it is, what the hell is it up up? Well, looks like Nolyn has just gained 5000 soldiers.

(hide spoiler)]

Janice wrote: "I'm somewhere in the middle of chapter 11, so I'll comment to the end of Chapter 10.

I have questions. ..."

Sorry Janice, I not sure I understand your question, (view spoiler)[ do you mean how did the voice know who fathered Sephryns baby? That is a good question as it seems she hasn't revealed that information to anyone. Or was just because of who she is, likely someone that has the access to the Palace and the abilities to steal the horn? The latter seems less likely. I think that when we learn more brother Seymour we might some clues.

(hide spoiler)]

I was missing the name. I was talking about Arvis. Chapter 11 was all about her. (view spoiler)[ She was being led to a baby - was it Sephron's baby? Who was leading her? That type of thing. (hide spoiler)]

Ah, now I understand. That chapter was confusing!

Can you imagine how confusing Arvis feels?

I finished to the end of Chapter 14.

Things are ramping up. (view spoiler)[ There has been no light shed on Arvis being led to a baby. She did come and get Sephron because she witnessed the monk being attacked. I wonder if he was killed but revived somehow. I'll be interested in how that storyline plays out.

It's becoming a little clearer about why Marwyn wants the horn. He's going to lay a claim to the throne by killing Nolyn, or by getting him killed. I don't think he has the balls to do it himself. He's really a coward at heart. But he does thirst for power.

It looks like Nolyn is going to make his own bid for the throne and overturn his father. I'm not sure how I feel about this. It seems risky. (hide spoiler)]

Margo wrote: "Chapter 13
Legate Farnell and his troops have been hearing a voice that prophesied the arrival of Nolyn and his men. Could this be the same voice that Seraphyn hears? If it is, what the hell is it..."

I agree with your comments on chapter 11 & 12. (view spoiler)[I'm wondering if this whole thing isn't being manipulated. (hide spoiler)]

Janice wrote: "I finished to the end of Chapter 14.

Things are ramping up. ..."

(view spoiler)[ I agree with your thoughts on Mawlyn - big, nasty coward.

I wonder what will happen when Nolyn come face to face with his father? I doubt very much that he can bring himself to kill his old Da. Making him a political prisoner would be risky. I still think that the Emporer cares about Nolyn and had those markings tattooed on his face to protect him. Someone, I agree that it's probably Mawlyn, is trying make it look like he wants Nolyn dead.


(hide spoiler)]

I finished to the end of Chapter 20.

Chapter 17 - (view spoiler)[ Arvis found the baby and it is Zephron's child. She also found the nursemaid who wasn't murdered but was actually part of the plot. The end of the chapter is a bit of a cliffhanger in that we don't know if she kills Arvis or not. (hide spoiler)]

to the end of chapter 20 - (view spoiler)[Seems like Nolyn has taken his father for granted. The seeds were planted that Nephron wanted his son to die, but Nephron has disputed that. I wonder how it's all going to work out.

Mawron actually wants Zephron to kill Nephron with her mother's bow. I'm wondering if the horn that she stole is actually the horn she sought. I'm hoping the monk saves the day, and that she doesn't kill Nephron.

It's getting tense and I'm not sure I'll be able to read much tomorrow because I have an appointment. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 16
(view spoiler)[ Do we know if Demetrius is Mawlyn? He is very suspicions. Mind you, so is Geral with all his prophesies.
(hide spoiler)]

Chapter 17
(view spoiler)[
So, Arvis gave her baby to the bakers wife! We, that's one mystery solved. That's why they promised her bread every day and as soon as they had the child in their clutches they reneged on the deal. Nice people!!! Poor Arvis, knowing that was the only chance the child had for survival.

And we find out that the nurse of Seraphyns baby wasn't killed but was part of the plot. I'm really hoping that the attack on Arvis might undo her comfusion
(hide spoiler)]

Janice wrote: "I finished to the end of Chapter 20.

Chapter 17 ."

You said very concisely what I rambled on for ages LOL

I'm at the end of chapt 17. I love the book so I can't work out what's taking us both so long to read it. Too much outside distraction I think.

I finished it. I had to keep reading. I knew I couldn't sit with it till tomorrow.

(view spoiler)[The story certainly got intense towards the end. I didn't think that Sephryn would follow through with killing Nephron. I was sad that she did, but glad that she got a happy ending.

Arvis turned tables on the old witch and saved herself and the baby. That really threw a monkey wrench in Mawyn's plans. LOL! I wasn't surprised that the horn was fake. I suspected that all along.

I was surprised that Seymore, the monk, actually was killed and that Tilos took over his body.

I'm using Riyria Wiki pages to keep everything straight, btw.

It appears that Sephryn has discovered a waif who turns out to be Arvis's lost daughter.

I have to say all these made up names with strange spellings is a bit of an annoyance. When Sullivan was being published by Del, he was forced to change the titles from titles like Freye to Legions of the Fall. I recall he was a little miffed about it, but I can certainly see Del's point of view.

Ex: Mawyndulë the dirty rotten scoundrel is pronounced Man-u-ee. So why spell it like that? I've been using Mawyen throughout the discussion because I couldn't remember and spell his full name. Okay rant over (hide spoiler)]

Margo wrote: "Chapter 16
Do we know if Demetrius..

Yes, you got that figured out correctly.

Janice wrote: "I finished to the end of Chapter 20.

Chapter 17 - [spoilers removed]

to the end of chapter 20 - Seems like Nolyn has taken his father for granted. The seeds were planted that Nephron wanted his s..."

(view spoiler)[ How old is Nolyn? It seems insane that you live that you can live that long and not talk to your father about little things like "Say Dad, why are you trying to kill me?" lol

Sephryn must be between the devil and the deep. To save her childs life, she believes she has to shoot the emporer. Since he is ancient, I think most mothers would opt to kill him, but what would the fallout be? I think something will happen so she doesn't have to make the choice. I've a feeling you're right and the monk will save the day. I wonder if he could actually be Brin?

(hide spoiler)]

Janice wrote: "I finished it. I had to keep reading. I knew I couldn't sit with it till tomorrow.

The story certainly got intense towards the end. I didn't think that Sephryn would follow through with killing Ne..."

I'm at that stage now. The beauty it that I can play it as I work - I have an empty house today so noone can complain. Less than 3 hours left ;-)

Margo wrote: "Janice wrote: "I finished to the end of Chapter 20.

Chapter 17 - [spoilers removed]

to the end of chapter 20 - Seems like Nolyn has taken his father for granted. The seeds were planted that Nephr..."

About Nolyn's age - (view spoiler)[ He's a couple of thousands of years old, but when reading about him, it feels like he's in his 30's. (hide spoiler)]

Finished

I agree with conclusions Janice except that (view spoiler)[ I'm not so sure Sephryn got a happy end. She lost her soul and clearly her culture believes very strongly in the afterlife. She won't go to heaven! Hopefully she'll get it back before the trilogy ends. Michaels wife says she thinks that'll happen because he's a sucker for happy endings. Did you have the afterword by Robin in your version of the book?

I thought it went a bit too far with Arvis daughter, having her found by Sephryn like that was a bit too neat for me. Other than that I loved the book.

Completely agree with you about the names! I found the spellings on fandom and it gave nick names for the really tricky ones so I used those e.g. Profit and Mawlyn. That's my least favourite thing about most fantasy books. I find it hard to remember complicated names and have DNFed more than one promising series for that reason. Maybe it's an audio thing?

(hide spoiler)]

I'm definitely going to continue the series. Are you on for buddy reading the next one?

Yes, I have both remaining books on audio. Do you want to read Farilane in April or May? I haven't started planning my April reads yet.

In response to your comments,

(view spoiler)[ Sephryn could feel her soul leaving. I hope it's possible that she gets it back too.

Yes, I had the audiobook and listened to Robyn's comments.

I suspect that Sephryn finding the girl is part of the bigger picture, and part of Malcolm's atonement for not protecting intervening in her being forced to kill Nephron. (hide spoiler)]

I have one book planned for the first week of April (it needs to go back to the library) but after that I'm easy.

How about middle of the month - April 12?