The Debate Club discussion

Thanks again for the suggestion, Emma!

So I would say no it's definitely not possible to change your sex. Your sex is defined by your body. It's entirely physical. Even if you surgically change other parts of your body, you'll still have the chromosomes you were born with. Research has shown that male and female brains exhibit structural and size differences, another thing that cannot be changed. Stanford Medicine researchers have even developed a powerful new artificial intelligence model that can distinguish between male and female brains. So I would definitely say it is not possible to be born as a male and become a female, or vice versa

Emma (read my bio before friending me) wrote: "So I would say no it's definitely not possible to change your sex. Your sex is defined by your body. It's entirely physical. Even if you surgically change other parts of your body, you'll still hav..."

Well, something a lot of trans teens choose to do is take hormones while going through puberty that are normally associated with the opposite sex (like a female taking male hormones while going through puberty). This can dramatically effect your development, causing you to develop with more characteristics of the opposite sex. Hormones play a big role in it, it's not all about genetics. I don't think you can fully change your sex, but you can partially change it by taking hormones and going through surgeries.

I want to clarify that I have no hate for transgender people; in fact, I have some trans best friends, and I hope they don't see this and take it the wrong way. However, from a scientific and genetic standpoint, you cannot change your sex. You can alter your appearance and take certain medications to change various aspects of yourself, but your biological sex, the one you were born with, remains constant.

According to an article, "While the use of exogenous opposite-sex hormones and surgery is known as 'medical transitioning,' these do not change a person's underlying biological sex." I'll share the link, and you can choose to agree or disagree. Essentially, the argument is that, while surgeries and treatments can change your appearance, they do not change the sex you were assigned at birth. It is considered impossible to change that biological fact.

Link of source I used:
https://can-sg.org/frequently-asked-q....

↬Mariah↫|| New Bio~ || wrote: "I want to clarify that I have no hate for transgender people; in fact, I have some trans best friends, and I hope they don't see this and take it the wrong way. However, from a scientific and genet..."

I agree! I also don't have any hate for transgender people. My sister is trans so

Barnette wrote: "Emma (read my bio before friending me) wrote: "So I would say no it's definitely not possible to change your sex. Your sex is defined by your body. It's entirely physical. Even if you surgically ch..."

that's a good point. I think Mariah's post might explain further about that though

Emma (read my bio before friending me) wrote: "Barnette wrote: "Emma (read my bio before friending me) wrote: "So I would say no it's definitely not possible to change your sex. Your sex is defined by your body. It's entirely physical. Even if ..."

Definitely

↬Mariah↫|| New Bio~ || wrote: "I want to clarify that I have no hate for transgender people; in fact, I have some trans best friends, and I hope they don't see this and take it the wrong way. However, from a scientific and genet..."

Well put! I agree

ray ੈ✩‧₊˚ (semi-hiatus till summer) wrote: "Emma (read my bio before friending me) wrote: "So I would say no it's definitely not possible to change your sex. Your sex is defined by your body. It's entirely physical. Even if you surgically ch..."

That's actually fascinating to think about

✮Mariah✮|| Disappears often~ || wrote: "I want to clarify that I have no hate for transgender people; in fact, I have some trans best friends, and I hope they don't see this and take it the wrong way. However, from a scientific and genet..."

well put and i agree. you cannot fundamentally change your sex, but really, in almost all of the ways that matter, you can. so scientifically, you are still the same sex, even if you don't look, act, or think like it.

the main thing many people don't get is that they think trans people don't understand this--- really, they do. but the thing about being trans is not changing your biological basis, it's about expressing yourself in a way that comforts you. so you can dress differently, for example, or receive hrt/blockers, because that's what you like, not because you want to "pretend" to be something. "pretending" is not the point of adapting your looks; the point is to look the way you love.

and, like ray said, intersex people do genuinely exist, so even if you don't believe in "gender", there is no way there are only two sexes. xx and xy aren't even the only two options--- people can be born, and have been, with a different set of chromosomes.

Granted, you still can't change it even if you are intersex.

true

There has been scientific studies done on smaller organisms (Like rats if I recall correctly) of changing their chromosomes, but so far no attempt has been made on changing that of a human's sex if I am not mistaken

I am veey cinfused because i thought the whole idea of gender and sex was that gender you can change but sex you cant and now even this is up for debate?

ray ੈ✩‧₊˚ (semi-hiatus till summer) wrote: "Emma (read my bio before friending me) wrote: "So I would say no it's definitely not possible to change your sex. Your sex is defined by your body. It's entirely physical. Even if you surgically ch..."

so true! But that's also a very small amount of people. And, as Damon said, you still can't change it even if you're intersex

MidnightButterfly wrote: "I am veey cinfused because i thought the whole idea of gender and sex was that gender you can change but sex you cant and now even this is up for debate?"

that's what I thought but then I saw people talking about changing sex so I suggested this topic lol

⋆.ೃ࿔; P I E R C E ˖*:･༄ {Free Pali} wrote: "There has been scientific studies done on smaller organisms (Like rats if I recall correctly) of changing their chromosomes, but so far no attempt has been made on changing that of a human's sex if..."

but studies doesn't mean they've actually DONE it, right?

If sex is changeable then sex is gender

MidnightButterfly wrote: "If sex is changeable then sex is gender"

Which is one of the big problems wit' society (no offense! and don't take this wrong lol)

MidnightButterfly wrote: "If sex is changeable then sex is gender"

Uh, no, they're still different things.

Barnette wrote: "MidnightButterfly wrote: "If sex is changeable then sex is gender"

Uh, no, they're still different things."

Why?

MidnightButterfly wrote: "If sex is changeable then sex is gender"

I think the idea is that gender is just how you FEEL (so like it's fake) whereas sex is your body and your genetics and your physical stuff. It's real. And it's not changeable but even if it was, it would be changing physical stuff

Emma (HIATUS~vacation) wrote: "MidnightButterfly wrote: "If sex is changeable then sex is gender"

I think the idea is that gender is just how you FEEL (so like it's fake) whereas sex is your body and your genetics and your phys..."

What makes gender fake, just because it's something you feel? Gender is real, like sex is, they're just different things.

MidnightButterfly wrote: "Barnette wrote: "MidnightButterfly wrote: "If sex is changeable then sex is gender"

Uh, no, they're still different things."

Why?"

As it's been explained, gender is a social construct and a part of your nonphysical identity. Sex is physical, based on your chromosomes, hormones, and body parts.

Because emotions are not tangible. And so far all im getting is that gender is how you feel, so, emotions

MidnightButterfly wrote: "I am veey cinfused because i thought the whole idea of gender and sex was that gender you can change but sex you cant and now even this is up for debate?"

no you can't scientifically change your sex, but in all the ways that actually matter, socially and how you want yourself to be, you can (read my earlier post)

Sai :) wrote: "MidnightButterfly wrote: "I am veey cinfused because i thought the whole idea of gender and sex was that gender you can change but sex you cant and now even this is up for debate?"

no you can't sc..."

But is that healthy? Have you seen the thing i posted abiut the oxford study on the fact that surgery can actually increase depression, anxiety etc

no not yet, i can't find it in this discussion, but even if it does i know many trans people who are already facing so many mental health issues they would still follow through with it knowing the risks. i would say it's very important for a doctor to educate their patient on this, as well as all other risks that come with any medical procedures, but that isn't any reason to not let the patient receive their desired treatment, since as i said earlier some people are already living in such a dark place that they are willing to risk it. for example, things like hormonal birth control also have the same risks, but they aren't banned or restricted because of it. but i agree, if it's true, then it's important to warn people of it beforehand.

Barnette wrote: "Emma (HIATUS~vacation) wrote: "MidnightButterfly wrote: "If sex is changeable then sex is gender"

I think the idea is that gender is just how you FEEL (so like it's fake) whereas sex is your body ..."

Because it's something humans made up. We were born with emotions like anger and sadness and happiness, but gender is something that somewhere along the way human beings just made up and decided it was a thing. Your feelings shouldn't be something to define and describe you. (there's more about this on the topic about gender<3)

https://academic.oup.com/jsm/advance-...

25 feb 2025

Aditionally, an Oxford study has found that those who are gender dysphoric are at a VERY MUCH HIGHER chance of being more anxious, depressed esp severely AFTER they have the gender reassignment surgery than before even if they were already going through these mental health issues.

The surgery exarcebates it in most cases

ray ੈ✩‧₊˚ (semi-hiatus till summer) wrote: "MidnightButterfly wrote: "Aditionally, an Oxford study has found that those who are gender dysphoric are at a VERY MUCH HIGHER chance of being more anxious, depressed esp severely AFTER they have t..."

Exactly, correlation doesn't equal causation (I think that's the phrase?)

ray ੈ✩‧₊˚ (semi-hiatus till summer) wrote: "MidnightButterfly wrote: "Aditionally, an Oxford study has found that those who are gender dysphoric are at a VERY MUCH HIGHER chance of being more anxious, depressed esp severely AFTER they have t..."

This shows that there is existing depression, stigma already and the surgery makes it worse, the depression can be caused by society but the surgery does not improve it

A lot of people regret the surgery, (not regretting changing their gender, necessaeily, just the surgery aspect)

No, you can change your gender but your sex is what you were born as

MidnightButterfly wrote: "https://academic.oup.com/jsm/advance-...

25 feb 2025"

i think there could be multiple reasonings for the study. yes, maybe the surgery makes it worse. but also, couldn't it be that only the people who are suffering the most would follow through with surgery? most trans people don't even undergo surgery; usually, gender-affirming care is just hrt, or puberty blockers if they're younger. i would assume that naturally, if you want to have surgery, then you're more likely to have more mental health issues.

of course, neither of these reasons are certain, as the study is quite holey, but if we could pinpoint a study where they tested the mental heath of their patients before and after the surgery to see if it was the surgery causing it or not, then that would be much more informative.

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/1724041...

Tessie ~face of an angel, mind of a killer~ wrote: "https://www.pinterest.com/pin/1724041..."

LOVE THIS

ray ੈ✩‧₊˚ (semi-hiatus till summer) wrote: "Tessie ~face of an angel, mind of a killer~ wrote: "https://www.pinterest.com/pin/1724041..."

in case there’s any confusion… what they’re saying is that anatomical sex is a spectrum. genet..."

Thank you! So how common is intersex, as far as we know?

yeah i agree with that you can't change your sex on a fundamental level, even though you can on most of the ones that actually matter

what about people born with disabilities? did God want them to suffer? what about people born in abusive family?
your reasoning doesn't really make sense when you think about more

Yes the intersex are staying intersex, unless there is a "cure" i put it in quotation marks as it deends if you think it is a birth defect.

𝔖𝔦𝔯𝔢𝔫 wrote: "Kelly again have u even heard of intersex ppl - by ur logic god made them intersex so they should stay intersex"

I heard of it, but I don't understand it.

Basically a person is born with parts of both a man and a female bioloigcially,

The true prevalence of intersex is seen to be about 0.018%, almost 100 times lower than Fausto-Sterling s estimate of 1.7%.

It deoends on what you categorise as intersex. Strictly, it is 0.018% but if you are more liberal with the defintion, it is 1.7%

I think under some defintions even i woukd fit intersex so i think the upper defintion is really just pushing it and just trying to push a point across that is political not sciemitfc

♡Kelly♡ wrote: "I’m sorry to make enemies but no.
If God made you a female you STAY a female..
If God made you a Male you STAY a Male!
God made you that sex for a reason! Don’t ruin the reason!"

Didn't even think of this before, but by your logic, we shouldn't have glasses or shoes or really anything, because God didn't give us shoes for a reason! God made us blind for a reason! By your logic, people with mental disabilities should not take pills, because He 'gave you those disabilities for a reason!'

els wrote: "You cannot change youre sex, that is something you are born with. Sex and Gender are very diffrent things.
So to answer the topic question: no you cant.
But you CAN change your gender."

I agree with sex, but not the gender. (I'll look at it from the non-Christian way.)
If we say that the universe came from the big ban, and technically science (made it?). If there was evolution, then why did we not became the gender we want to become?
(I know this isn't the God question, but it is related to it.)
Um, and sry, if you don't understand my question....I'll explain if you want....

els wrote: "You cannot change youre sex, that is something you are born with. Sex and Gender are very diffrent things.
So to answer the topic question: no you cant.
But you CAN change your gender."

Agreed

Would it be right for a transman, for examole to tell people "im a man" or say "im a transman"