Read Women discussion

Our fiction read this month is the dystopian novel, The Bees by Laline Paull.

A dystopian thriller set in a bee-hive, based on real honeybee biology. Class, caste, and mother love, in a society forty thousand years old. Central to the book is Flora 717, a sanitation bee, who is considered only fit to clean her orchard hive. She is large, she can "talk", she's ugly. Because of that she is considered disabled. But she is prepared to sacrifice everything for her beloved holy mother, the Queen...

The book summaries I read left a bit to be desired in my mind, but these two comments from reviews that I skimmed through pointed me towards this book:

"Thrilling and imaginative, The Bees is the story of a heroine who changes her destiny and her world.”

And especially this one written by Kathryn Allan for Wordgathering: A Journal of Disability Poetry and Literature: “While many readers will see value in its discussion of environmental issues or on the limits of religious society, those who approach it with disability in mind will find Flora 717's story an engaging one.”
https://wordgathering.com/past_issues...

The Guardian book review: https://www.theguardian.com/books/201...

The book is the author's debut novel and was nominated for the 2015 Baileys Women's Prize for Fiction.

About the author
The author was born in London first-generation Indian immigrants. She studied English at Oxford, screenwriting in Los Angeles, and theatre in London, where she had two plays performed at the Royal National Theatre.

She has written two other books The Ice and Pod which was shortlisted for the 2023 Women's Prize for Fiction.

Please let us know if you are planning to join. This one is a little out of my wheelhouse, but I'm looking forward to it.

I heard it described as The Handmaids Tale meets The Hunger Games, Gail, which is the sort of comparison which typically makes me tilt my head to the side once I'm halfway through the subject book : )

I saw that. But I don’t believe those anymore. That’s why I didn’t put it in. But who knows!

I just finished this one (got a head start when my library loan was available early) and enjoyed it! Eager to see what others think.

Lindsey wrote: "I just finished this one (got a head start when my library loan was available early) and enjoyed it! Eager to see what others think."

Oh good!! Glad to hear!

I didn't really get Hunger Games vibes from this one (maybe a tiiiny bit, if I'm looking for it). But I can see the Handmaid's Tale reference, I think. I haven't read the latter, so I can't be sure :)

I first read this years ago and really liked it. My memory is hazy though some I'm looking forward to a reread.

What speculative fiction novel hasn't been compared to the hunger games and/or handmaid's tale?! I don't get it, it's just annoying and a very lazy attempt at promoting a book. 🙄

From what I can remember, this book is like no other

Carol wrote: "I heard it described as The Handmaids Tale meets The Hunger Games, Gail, which is the sort of comparison which typically makes me tilt my head to the side once I'm halfway through the subject book : )"

I am always hesitant to read a book when PR makes those statements. I also forgot to add this to my quarterly list!

I've finished! You can see my rating here. I don't want to leave any spoilers but I can tell you that there is a little bit of a Handmaids Tale and Hunger Games vibe to the story, but it is a bit of a stretch. I also will say that I will never look at a bee the same way again!

I've just finished chapter 5 and yeesh that last scene was pretty disturbing...

Actual bees are something I care about very much. I used to volunteer for the bumblebee trust and so I know a bit about how they function and I find them absolutely fascinating. Bumblebees are wild bees and different from honey bees which have been bred and are kept by humans for our own benefit. I don't know as much about honeybees but a lot of the basics about how the hives work are similar.
The author has generally kept a lot of these basics true to real life, for example the queen laying all the eggs, sterile female workers etc. Bees do kill their own sometimes to protect the health of the whole hive. Deformed wing is real and a deadly threat.
Obviously the author has also anthropomorphised the bees to make this into a fictional allegory and this is fine, makes it more readable. One thing that bugs me though (oh pun unintended!) is how she portrays the drones. One thing I love about bees is their matriarchal system. In reality, the drones (males) are only produced during mating season, they don't contribute to the hive in any way, they don't, forage or clean, they don't even have stingers for defence. They are born, they leave to mate with a queen from a different hive and then they die. I don't know why the author chose to have the female bees worship and swoon over the males but I find it quite irritating. Perhaps a reason will be revealed later on

Hannah wrote: "...the drones ...

I wondered about this part of the storyline. Is the gluttony and the insensitivity to the females part of their system though? That's one part that really got me. I couldn't tell if it was simply a slam against males or if it was real.

GailW wrote: "Hannah wrote: "...the drones ...

I wondered about this part of the storyline. Is the gluttony and the insensitivity to the females part of their system though? That's one part that really got me...."

I don't think that's anything to do with actual bees, if anything the females use the males for what they need not the other way around. In the book perhaps it's part of the allegory that she's building up - I'm not sure yet as I'm only 10% in but is it about organised religion/cult like society? It would make more sense if this was directed at the queen rather than the drones though as she is the deity

Hannah wrote: "... In the book perhaps it's part of the allegory that she's building up ..."

I'm going to postpone the rest of this. I'm afraid I'm going to give something away!

I approach dystopian lit with caution, although I have read The Handmaid's Tale and the Hunger Games Trilogy.

I am halfway through and I am enjoying this read.
The parts about the drones are definitely for dramatic effect. Worker bees typically drive the drones out to conserve resources once colder weather approaches.
Paull’s portrayal of the fertility police heightens the tension in the story, making the hive feel more authoritarian and oppressive. I found their actions unsettling. They are like a secret police force that enforces social order, like human society.

Hannah wrote: "I don't think that's anything to do with actual bees, if anything the females use the males for what they need not the other way around. ."

I don't know as much about bees as you do, but I got the impression that the Drone worship was added for our (human reader) benefit. To bridge this fictional bee world with our own, in a way. And yes, I think the point was to lean into some cultish/religious themes as well?

Sophie wrote: "Paull’s portrayal of the fertility police heightens the tension in the story, making the hive feel more authoritarian and oppressive. I found their actions unsettling. They are like a secret police force that enforces social order, like human society."

(re: comment above)

I agree. I was getting similar vibes to The Memory Police by Yōko Ogawa.

For What It's Worth: Just a coincidence, trust me. I didn't know this when I nominated the book, but

May 20th is World Bee Day!

Lindsey wrote:
I was getting similar vibes to The Memory Police by Yōko Ogawa
I've had that book on my TBR for a while but my local library does not have it. I'll have to get a copy.

I have finished reading the book and give it high marks. I liked the tension created with the various situations Flora found herself in. I found the narrative allowed for wonderful visuals as I could picture the hive of bees and our poor little Flora as I was reading. This would make a good animated film.
The comparison to The Hunger Games did not seem apt. I thought it was more like Animal Farm as one reviewer I follow pointed out.

Sophie wrote: "Lindsey wrote:
I was getting similar vibes to The Memory Police by Yōko Ogawa
I've had that book on my TBR for a while but my local library does not have it. I'll have to get a copy."

Memory Police is well worth chasing. I can’t even pretend to be neutral.

Now that I've read more I definitely agree with you all about the drones and the police. It's more obvious. The police are really unsettling, especially how they call it "the kindness". The part where they ask "who is tired" and then cart them away was particularly chilling and, in so few words, says a lot about society's attitude towards less able bodied people.

I much preferred how Lily the forager spoke to the drones and put them in their place. That felt more aligned with what I know about actual bees. It also made me wonder if there's some bigger motivation behind having some of the females dote over the drones. To make them think it's all about them before their ultimate sacrifice that they don't seem to be aware of yet (assuming they die after mating as real bees, haven't actually got that far yet).

Another interesting thing I noticed was how the ladies in waiting were looking down on Flora's darker colouring and trying to make her look paler with ?propolis I think before she was deemed fit to meet the queen. I wondered if the author, particularly being of Indian heritage, was making a point about colourism there.

What did you all think about the memories in the queen's library? I thought the "visitation" one with the smoke and stealing particularly interesting. It's obviously referencing beekeepers. I didn't quite understand the way they were kept and feared though, why was the queen supposed to listen to them but unable to? Perhaps there'll be more on this later, I'm still only about one third in

Ps also agree re memory police :)

I thought the actual "visitation" segment quite odd. And then I was conflicted with my internal response: "Well, of course, he has a right to take the honey. That's why he built the structure!" And then I immediately thought of plantations. It seemed to be written with a "colonizer" theme to it. But I couldn't get my head wrapped any deeper than that.

The memories seemed to me to be the progression of a queen's life. It felt as though she understood them but didn't want to pay attention to them. (Can't say more until you finish...)

I've finally finished! Sorry I took so long, my head's been a bit all over the place.

Thanks Gail for pointing me in the right direction with the queen's library. Somehow I hadn't picked up on them being the queen's lifelong memories and that helped. I wonder why the queen didn't want to pay attention to them and needed the others to read them, I never understood that part.

I can see now that the drone characters were totally for dramatic effect. I just get stuck sometimes with things not being true to 'reality' and struggle to get past it. But it's fiction so it's totally my problem.

What did you all think of the ending? (view spoiler)[ I got a bit stuck again with the idea of flora laying a female egg. It made more sense that the first 2 were males because only queens can lay female eggs after mating. Drones are haploid (only have 1 set of chromosomes), from unfertilized eggs and I thought that's why flora assumed they were all male babies. She was surprised when she found out her third egg was female, but it was never explained. I thought it was going to be revealed that flora and sir linden has mated. So then the ending threw me when the princess chose him as her mate! I kept thinking no he's your father! But even if he wasn't, he was her uncle because flora and linden were both the offspring of the original queen. (hide spoiler)] Not that I tend to overthink things....😂

Hello, I have just finished it and enjoyed it a lot. I don’t think I will ever look at a bee the same way now. The story development was quite interesting and I enjoyed how the author has been able to fit in the different stages in a bee’s life. Now how truthful was it, I wonder. What was true to nature and what was totally fictitious, hard to say. Now, when you ask about the ending, Hanna, is it about the epilogue or the final stage with the new queen and the new hive? As I said, how truthful is it that a bee can breed without mating to start with and if that egg can then grow into a princess and then a queen? Why not, it did not disturb me more than that. The battle was quite epic, though. As for the epilogue, I found it unexpected and touchy, and it brought a realistic touch to that dystopian story.