Classics and the Western Canon discussion

Week 5

Book 8 contains: Scylla & Nisus, The Story of Daedalus & Icarus, The Calydonian Boar; Althaea & Meleager; The Return of Theseus; Baucis & Philemon; The Story of Erysichthon

Book 9 contains: The Story of Achelous’ Duel for Deianira; The Story of Hercules, Deianira, and Nessus; The Story of Hercules’ Birth; Dryope; The Story of Byblis & Caunus; Iphis & Lanthe

This week, I’m marveling at Ovid’s abilities as a storyteller and as a poet. I found myself breathlessly reading the boar hunt and then Althaea’s debate with herself even though I knew what her decision would be. There are wonderful details throughout, including the apt description of the river-god’s home with “dark walls/ of porous pumice and rough tufa, while/ the floor was damp and soft with moss; the panels sunk in the ceiling alternated conchs/ and purple shells” — a very watery decor.

I also noticed how Ovid skims over some stories to focus on others — with only quick mentions of all of Hercules’ feats for example, perhaps because they didn’t involve transformations.

What stood out for you in this week’s reading? And what surprised you?

I found the story of Iphis and Ianthe interesting and from what I’ve read about it, it is the only mythological account of female same-sex desire, in all of Graeco-Roman mythology. I cannot really tell from the text what Ovid feels about female same-sex desire but I think it does so that this is very a patriarchal society that the story takes place in so the resolution is for Iphis to become a man.

Scylla chooses a course more or less the same as Medea (falling in love with the stranger she’s just seen, choosing to aid him, and thereby betraying her father.) Medea, since she’s a sorceress, gets away with it, but Scylla as a regular woman is condemned and changed into a bird. In her monologue, Ovid seems to paint Scylla as more foolish or less sympathetic than Medea. Why is Medea helping Jason obtain the Golden Fleece because she loves him more noble and admirable than Scylla attempting to help Minos achieve vengeance for his son because she loves him?
Ovid has Medea worrying over Jason’s death and her power to avert it. She resolves to be loyal to her father, but then encounters Jason “looking more handsome than ever. Medea could hardly be blamed for her passion.” (7.84) Scylla, on the other hand, is openly lusting after Minos, has been watching him & come to know his face “more indeed than was proper.” (8.24) SHE goes to HIM and offers herself - and is roundly rejected.
Taken together, these two stories are a moral lesson about the appropriate bounds of female lust- it’s ok if he speaks first and asks for help, and also if you are a sorcerer lol.

For those of you who enjoy poetry, W.H. Auden has a beautiful poem about Icarus in which he describes Brueghel's stunning painting of Icarus falling from the sky.
https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poem...

Mike wrote: "I found the story of Iphis and Ianthe interesting and from what I’ve read about it, it is the only mythological account of female same-sex desire, in all of Graeco-Roman mythology. I cannot really ..."

Good point. It’s interesting that this particular story involves Egyptian gods which makes it seem more exotic/foreign from a Greek or Roman perspective.

Zuska wrote: "Scylla chooses a course more or less the same as Medea (falling in love with the stranger she’s just seen, choosing to aid him, and thereby betraying her father.) Medea, since she’s a sorceress, ge..."

There are definitely patterns among the stories here. The outcomes don’t seem very related to causality or even responsibility. You’ve made me curious — I need to reread these stories based on your comments.

Tamara wrote: "For those of you who enjoy poetry, W.H. Auden has a beautiful poem about Icarus in which he describes Brueghel's stunning painting of Icarus falling from the sky.
https://www.poetryfoundation.org/p..."

Thanks for sharing this wonderful poem, Tamara. The Brueghel picture can be viewed here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landsca...

Mike wrote: "I found the story of Iphis and Ianthe interesting and from what I’ve read about it, it is the only mythological account of female same-sex desire, in all of Graeco-Roman mythology. I cannot really ..."

I just finished reading this one and was struck by it this same-sex and trans story. I thought there was a lot packed in it. The father stating a female baby would not be permitted to live (and it being an economic thing and not personally against females), Iphis raised to hide her gender and then only needed to make the change 'real' because of her love for Ianthe.