SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion

I love some committed & well-integrated worldbuilding, and vivid descriptions that evoke awe, but honestly… I haven’t read enough books to know what all is out there to love in a book, so I won’t ask for anything specifically, and instead keep an open mind. I want to understand how people write, what they can do with their words, what makes a book solid and outstanding. So for that purpose, please tell me about your most beloved book or books: Your favorites, your most underrated books, or books that just do something outstandingly well. Link your reviews if you’ve made one, tell me about the good and bad of the book, what makes it compelling and notable to you. Do ramble and spoil, give me honest caveats even. I’ve noticed a good premise isn’t always the marker of a good book, but I have trouble getting into a book until I have a grasp on where it’s going and what I should be caring about, but if I have more information to go off on, I can make a better decision as to if the book is worth it for me.

It seems that you take your reading choices very seriously. Okay, here are two books that are my favorites and, at the same time, very underrated, and I'm happy to write about them in great detail.
My first favorite is Chimeras of Estmer. Despite weird cover, the has all the hallmarks of classic and very epic fantasy, such as a very complex plot (there are several stories in this book, seemingly unconnected at first, but then converging like streams flowing into a river), lots of characters and POVs, and really great world-building with many countries, cultures and races.
I'm not sure how to describe it, but Chimeras of Estmer feels like an improved version of classic fantasy. It is very well written, including very vivid descriptions, similar to traditional fantasy stories, but it is easy to read and has many surprising plot twists.
There is also a bit of very elegant madness. For example, one of the main characters spends about half the story as a cat because a certain villain who killed his teacher and stole his magic also turned him into an animal. The magic in this book is like a wallet that a murderer can take from his victim. So this guy has to somehow return to his human form, find his teacher's killer, and get his stolen magic back. This book also features a crawling puddle of sentient water that follows and spies on people and then falls in love with a human girl, a cunning pirate with a living ship, and many other strange creatures and characters.
My second inderrated favorite is Silver Hands. It's part horror, part historical fiction, and part fantasy. It's like the Shogun series, but it's about an English girl, not an English guy, who happens to be in Tokugawa-era Japan. On top of that, she's being stalked by a demon in human form who wants to marry her. It's not exactly our world, though, because there's a flying island called Laputa floating in the sky above Japan. So there is a bit of AU history in this book as well.
Also, it's a bit like the first book in the Wizard of Earthsea trilogy, where the main character also runs away from a dark enemy at first, but then finds the strength to turn around and face the enemy and take the fight. Anyway, this is definitely a hidden gem, although I'm not sure how to classify the genre of this book.
Besides, I very like Night's Edge by Julie Czerneda, but I think this post is already too long.

Jabotikaba wrote: "It seems that you take your reading choices very seriously. Okay, here are two books that are my favorites and, at the same time, very underrated, and I'm happy to write about them in great detail...."
4 and 8 reviews... you weren't kidding around about the 'underrated' business. How did you even come across these books? Color me impressed.

You yourself pointed out that you like committed & well-integrated world-building and vivid descriptions, and that you're not against underrated books. Chimeras of Estmer has all of those things, and I like this book a lot, so I thought I'd mention it.
Actually, it wasn't me who found this book, but a friend of mine. We both like the Osten Ard books by Tad Williams, and she said Chimeras of Estmer is a bit similar to them. It was last summer, and I couldn't wait for the last of Osten Ard books to be published. So I started reading Chimeras of Estmer, and it turned out to be a great story in its own right. I can't get it out of my mind, even though I finally read the last Osten Ard book and enjoyed it (although Tad Williams killed off one of my favorite characters for no apparent reason).
As for Silver Hands, I found this book in someone's retelling collection here on Goodreads. At the time, I enjoyed reading retellings of fairy tales and old books, but this book turned out to be much more than a retelling of one of the Brothers Grimm's lesser-known and rather creepy fairy tales.
I'm not sure if you would like it since it's set on AU Earth and not in a fictional world, but as I started to think of other underrated books after writing about Chimeras of Estmer, I remembered this one as well.

Hi, I hope you don't mind me jumping on this too. After reading these posts. Peony I truly relate to you in your criteria of what grabs you when you read and what you want to find in a book. I would add emotion. I find characters that aren't one dimensional that have gone through things and have history is what also makes a story so compelling and memorable.
And, I love your recommendation Jabotikata of Chrimeras of Estmer I want to check it out now too^^ along with silver hands. As someone who is trying to pen stories and write better I have a few personal ideas on retellings of fairy tales that I hope I can get to soon.
Therefore, I have a feeling my recommendations won't be as beautiful or as mature.

Peony if you haven't heard of The Raven boy's by Maggie Stiefvater I recommend that to you. It is a story that caught me by surprise in a world I knew nothing about. It was dark and gothic borderline strange and mystical. It hooked me the moment I read in the blurb that the main character would kill her first love if they kiss. The story's main conflict was there right in front of you. She is the villain of her own story. Until, you are left with that big question WHY? and you go on this journey. I loved it and it is also underrated.
Brandon Sanderson's Mistborn is one I am currently exploring through my ears and I am loving his world building and his descriptions. It's mysterious, haunting but also engrossing. It is like he has the right amount of salt and pepper as he dives into oppression and abuse in a medieval era where the society is governed by serfdom.
It has different Pov's which is also great. The Raven Boy's does as well. And funny enough Leigh Bardugo's crooked kingdom gives me vibes of the Raven Boys but the raven boys has just stuck with me more when it comes to recommendations for some reason. Maybe because it is underrated. Not sure.
Sorry for rambling.
There are really so many books out there it would be interesting to hear what you have read peony and what you have as a favourite and what you think is underrated.^^

Eleasah wrote: "Hi, I hope you don't mind me jumping on this too. After reading these posts. Peony I truly relate to you in your criteria of what grabs you when you read and what you want to find in a book. I woul..."

It's very nice to meet someone else who enjoys good fairy tale retellings. And I read books by Leigh Bardugo and Maggie Stiefvater a few years ago and really liked them.

@Eleasah

I'm unsure if I'm just a picky reader, or haven't found my cup of tea yet, but my 'favorite' series so far is the high fantasy isekai series Ascendance of a Bookworm: I'll Do Anything To Become A Librarian by Miya Kazuki.

(...see 26 more).

The English translation completed in September of 2024, but there may be more books, and its spin-off series, Hannelore’s Fifth Year at the Royal Academy, which I have not read but apparently features time travel(?) is still ongoing. I started reading this series when the prepublications of the translations were still airing on the J-Novel website, alongside the 14k member strong subreddit which is still active (and enthusiastic about potential more books set in that world.) How much does it contribute to one's reading experience, spending years waiting for the release of a new volume, speculating with an active, suspenseful fandom, grieving the attacks of multilingual and google-translate-gremlin spoiler trolls? While I aim to re-read it to answer those questions for myself (and deconstruct as a study what I like about this story in more precise measurements), the entire series is ~12,700 pages long/3,195,702 words (compared to The Wheel of Time's ~11,700 pages/4,410,036 words, or Brandon Sanderson's Stormlight Archive's ~6,452 pages/1,788,151 words.) ...Needless to say, while it's undoubtedly an easier read, please do not wait up on my re-reading the entire series. I'm currently 50% into book 1 out of 33.



This is a magical, "boring-dystopia"/"realistic" type story, heavy in worldbuilding with an interesting emphasis on responsibility within a society and mundane work, and the importance of learning socio-political tact. A thorough and expansive world with different 'common sense' and values, nuanced social cause-and-effect, and in-context drama that has you putting two and two together yourself to go "wait, what? Oh my..." For that alone, this story will hold a 'favorite' place in my heart for a very, very long time, and has inspired me to be more thorough in my own creative endeavors. --It has been delightful to connect dots, speculate, and attempt to gauge the norms of this world against my own and try on the shoes of tight-laced (but not in all the ways that actually matter apparently) nobles, and to try and reconcile the social demands of this world (as far as Myne learns) with the clues of human nature. The contrast between the serious tone of this world and the realistic blunders, quirks, and realities characters face is a strange but thrilling comedy. Sometimes, the ripple effects of Myne's actions or the scoldings she received felt like they made me a better and more socially conscious person.

Everything example-specific I could tell you about this story would be a spoiler: It is extremely slow burn--We start out with our protagonist waking up to the body of a sickly 5 year old commoner who can barely leave her bed, and to memory, we might even be several books in before we learn magic exists in this world, let alone see it, and this escalates to (endgame spoilers but I must prove a point. The plot....escalates about as far as your wildest imaginings, heavily tied into the worldbuilding, which trickles down as smoothly as rain) (view spoiler)[a race to avoid the end of the world and the death of an entire civilization because of the combination of a civil war in a world where entire losing political factions are executed, generations of gradual corruption and neglect of responsibilities in the upper echelons, and the subsequent decay of magic in a world built on magic and religious devotion(which, to be frank, *was* the original magic system and should still be the focus of it. Of course, and a very important book.) (hide spoiler)] Honestly, as much as the cause and effect, I love how serious daily life is treated in this story. From the moment they can be trusted to wash a plate, tend a fire, or follow the older kids out to the gathering spot in the woods, children in this world have serious chores that contribute to the survival of their family. Literally, only diaper-bound infants are monitored 24/7, and the state of the daycare available to a commoner is... neglectful. 7 year olds begin their apprenticeships literally as soon as they're registered as legal citizens, and their only choice is usually between whichever professions their parents are in because commoners don't have too many social connections. I told you, a "boring dystopia." Heck, I'd even go so far as to say our main character is lucky-- despite the harsh conditions, there is no abuse in her childhood, and most people around her are nice.... Then the bookworm starts ascending, and her world expands, and ....uh.. this world is a lot more brutal than underpaid 7 year old woodworkers and 4 year old foragers scavenging the woods outside the city gates for their family's next meal. Thankfully, most of the more shocking elements happen off-screen or even historically. And somehow, the upper class kids are not an exception to difficult expectations and immense responsibility, and the story makes it make sense. Everyone in this medieval world has the short end of a stick, everyone has to hold their tongue or risk making enemies they cannot afford to make, ruining their family's reputation (and how are you going to survive without interpersonal bonds in a society?), or if you're really unlucky and hard of head, you may simply get yourself roped into the machinations of adults and get yourself executed at the age of 7 or something. Everyone has a job, not even the corrupt can afford to sit down and twiddle their thumbs in decadence. The main character's free time is very soon a point of notable reference. There's something simultaneously dry and healing about this slice of life element.

Sometimes the early plots are a little... eh. The whole 'tossing the chamberpot out onto the streets' thing is an outdated estimation of medieval city life, and some characters are talking as living encyclopedias, at times unrealistically for how young the main character is and how much faith they have in her. I did not enjoy the writing style itself, and the pacing felt strange. It's not economic or tactful, even if it gets a lot of psychological nuances right: A lot of time is spent on strange and bland routine interactions, rambling straight-laced details that go nowhere, and a lot of climaxes are foot-dragged towards or written in a way that did not capture the excitement and follow through I imagine the scene itself would have had. Paradoxically, something about the vibe itself of this story is so fundamentally different from everything else I've read. Perhaps something about the writing style demands an energy of patience and mundane-ness, and that contributes negatively when proportions do become epic and on-screen rather than as world-building, but contributes a seriousness and level-headed realism to the world: elaborate routines and formalities go on, chores are completed, and duties are met or neglected.

Despite these issues, I would rate it as a 4, but it could have easily been a 5. It was so close to a 5, it put in so much work. The author keeps a file cabinet of who's doing what and when, and references them for Q&A's. The worldbuilding is better than most actual books I've read so far, definitely far above any manga, webcomic, or anime I've completed (and I've read and watched a lot more of those in my time than actual books....). It's not *that much* of a weird world, but it's an extremely solid and compelling one, and I haven't seen 'a society with different common sense' done so well. It's also interesting that Myne at the beginning of the story is around the same age that the author's child was when she began writing the books, so when children around Myne say something outrageous or merciless, I can't help but imagine the inspiration behind those moments, haha.

Trigger warnings... The problem with the trigger warnings in this story is that most of them are major plot points. Major reveals where the main character is stunned, finds out why logically things are the way they are, and then tries her best to fix things. While there's not much on-screen gore or spectacle, I'm hard-set to find anything else that could be a trigger warning that this story *doesn't* have going on, be it in the historical context, implications, or sub-plots... So they will be spoiler tagged. While serious content is tackled, the 'junio bunko' editions (which I understand to have easier to read japanese, but the exact same text and material) are targeted at older elementary schoolers, so it's not relly 'spectacle' type brutality. (view spoiler)[Content warnings: death, slavery, child abuse and neglect, extremely normalized SA, mass executions, (heavily implied) forced pregnancy (hide spoiler)] ... Yeah, some of these warnings and "the demographic includes elementary schoolers" sound very wrong together. Ask google and the publishers, not me please. If anything, I'd say this speaks to this story not treating these issues as fodder for drama and shock value.

Also thank you both for the reccs! I'll be looking into them. :)

Peony wrote: "@Eleasah

I'm unsure if I'm just a picky reader, or haven't found my cup of tea yet, but my 'favorite' series so far is the high fantasy isekai series Ascendance of a Bookworm: I'll Do Anything To ..."

Wow, I can tell you really love this series. Funny enough I had see the anime years ago and I loved it. I watched every episode wanting more but then it went on a break before it was renewed. I got caught up in other things and never continued watching. I will definitely check out the novel series. If I can get my hands on it.^^
I have been listening to The fourth wing series by Rebecca Yarros it did vaguely remind me of it. The female lead had training to be a scribe but then she goes on to be a dragon rider. It involves magic and facts and lots of dragons. The whole series screams anime to me actually but I warn you there is a lot of explicit sequences which the story in my opinion would have been fine without.

Jabotikaba wrote: "Eleasah wrote: "Hi, I hope you don't mind me jumping on this too. After reading these posts. Peony I truly relate to you in your criteria of what grabs you when you read and what you want to find i..."

Awesome!

Peony wrote: "@Eleasah

I'm unsure if I'm just a picky reader, or haven't found my cup of tea yet, but my 'favorite' series so far is the high fantasy isekai series Ascendance of a Bookworm: I'll Do Anything To ..."

Jabotikaba wrote: "Eleasah wrote: "Hi, I hope you don't mind me jumping on this too. After reading these posts. Peony I truly relate to you in your criteria of what grabs you when you read and what you want to find i..."

I wanted to just add I love your amount of detail in your review and just it in general. Thank for telling me your favourite peony. I guess favourites tend to have good and bad still in them, and that doesn't stop it being your favourite. And, even though it was long-winded from what you've said, concerning the progression of the story, I am actually surprised it didn't stop you and thousands of other people from leaving. Which has given me a bit of hope in my own personal work, as there is this part of me, that needs to explain everything, but for the further enjoyment of readers less at times is definitely more.

So if I'm understanding right you're mostly interested in good prose? I have some options for you that I greatly enjoyed and which are criminally underrated (or at least to my knowledge).

Silver in the wood is the first book in a duology by Emily Tesh, who is now known for her new release The incandescent if I'm not mistaken, but her Greenhollow duology showed great promise too. Silver in the wood is a cute short little story about a man bound to a forest and a seemingly desperate "intruder" who he connects with quickly.
Tesh knows how to bring a story to life, the book is very atmospheric and you can just feel the tree bark under your fingers and hear the rustle of leaves. The main character is very solid and I was rooting for him all the way (if you've read the book you'll appreciate that pun very much). His friendships with other characters was cute and heart-warming.
Despite it being a short story the author managed to also bring the myths and lore to life and give them their own voice.

Young Mungo (my review) is a book with a very raw use of language which is a direct representation of the environment that it is set in. The prose has a definite punch that makes the story even better and more heart-wrenching. There are some great metaphors in the book too which made me appreciate it even better. The characters are really unique and have their own personalities and each of them deals with setbacks in their own way, and none of it feels flat or repetitive. Young Mungo isn't fantasy nor is it under-appreciated, but I felt it couldn't go unmentioned.

Our Hideous Progeny (my review) is the third I want to point out, I read it in just over a week and I needed that time to digest all the gut punches. The author really has a knack for linguistic impact and the storytelling became all the better for it. At first I was hesitant to continue when I'd just read a few chapters, because the story is narrated with a rather stiff kind of language. Mind you, it fit the setting of the book, but the pacing did take a beating because of that, and especially in the first half of the book it was difficult to look past that. But the pay-off is immense, and it’s the second half of the book that was really really good. The precise events in the book aren't all that original because it's a re-telling, but the themes are executed very well.

Nicky wrote: "So if I'm understanding right you're mostly interested in good prose? I have some options for you that I greatly enjoyed and which are criminally underrated (or at least to my knowledge).

Silver i..."


Fairies???? With lush prose? Thank you, Silver in the Wood sounds like something I'll love.

I don't think your review links are working(even though they have the underline and color of a link), but I have found them on your page regardless.

Thank you for the recommendations!

Eleasah wrote: "I wanted to just add I love your amount of detail in your review and just it in general. Thank for telling me your favourite peony."

You're welcome! :) I don't remember what motivated me to continue it, except that unlike most other stories I was picking up around that time, it didn't go downhill. The plot stayed solid, bricks over bricks, and before I knew it I was standing in a magical castle in a world with (view spoiler)[roaming gods playing tricks (hide spoiler)].

Anyone here will probably roll their eyes at me because of course I’m going to recommend Ursula K. Le Guin’s Earthsea books, starting with A Wizard of Earthsea. It has all the elements you are looking for but is far from Underrated! First published in 1968, A Wizard of Earthsea has a wizard school and a protagonist that goes on an epic quest. It is a bit like a coming of age story but of a very personal and philosophical nature. The pace is slow but draws you deep. It’s not long, so it rewards a slow reading. If you haven’t read any Le Guin yet, don’t wait! The world-building is exemplary, the magic system fascinating and the writing is just outstanding.

Eleasah wrote: "Avesome!..."
Thank you!
DivaDiane wrote: "Anyone here will probably roll their eyes at me because of course I’m going to recommend Ursula K. Le Guin’s Earthsea books, starting with A Wizard of Earthsea. It has all the elements you are look..."
I'm definitely far from rolling my eyes here because I very like Earthsea books, and this story was one of my favorites as a kid. These books are unique in that both kids and adults can enjoy them. When I was a kid, I just loved reading about wizards and dragons, and as I grew up, I started to notice the psychological and philosophical aspects of these books. Of course, there's also a unique setting and system of magic.
But the Earthsea books are already classics, and they were adapted into anime years ago. I didn't mention them here simply because I thought everyone knew about them.
Peony wrote: "Fairies???? With lush prose? Thank you, Silver in the Wood sounds like something I'll love..."
Fairies and lush prose sound interesting to me, too. Many people dislike long descriptions in books, but I find them very important. How would I be able to imagine the characters and setting without them?
For fantasy books set in fictional worlds, vivid descriptions are crucial. If the book took place in our world, it would suffice to write that the characters live in London, Krakow, or elsewhere, and everything would be clear. Therefore, a good fantasy book should always have lush prose describing fictional countries, cultures, and races.
So, thank you for recommendation!
Nicky wrote: "So if I'm understanding right you're mostly interested in good prose? I have some options for you that I greatly enjoyed and which are criminally underrated (or at least to my knowledge)..."
I think Silver in the Wood could be a very interesting read. From your description, it sounds a bit like Mythago Wood by Robert Holdstock and In the Forests of Serre by Patricia A. McKillip. The other two books seem pretty good, too.
Eleasah wrote: "I have been listening to The fourth wing series by Rebecca Yarros it did vaguely remind me of it. The female lead had training to be a scribe but then she goes on to be a dragon rider. It involves magic and facts and lots of dragons. The whole series screams anime to me actually..."
You're right! Fourth Wing just screams to be made into an anime.
As for the other books I recommended, Silver Hands could also make a great anime. After all, the story is set partly in old Japan and partly on a flying island.
Chimeras of Estmer could have been an interesting TV series. There are so many characters, and each chapter is like a short story with its own plot. I think it's called an "arc," but I'm not exactly sure. In any case, it would be very easy to turn it into a TV series.
Peony wrote: "@Eleasah

I'm unsure if I'm just a picky reader, or haven't found my cup of tea yet, but my 'favorite' series so far is the high fantasy isekai series Ascendance of a Bookworm: I'll Do Anything To ..."
It looks like you really like this story! It might be worth reading, even though isekai isn't usually my cup of tea.