Victorians! discussion

Summary:

Chapter 18 brings us back to London and the household of Anthony and Jonas Chuzzlewit from New York. We learn the relationship between father and son. The son seems impatient for the inheritance. Anthony's loyal clerk, Mr. Chuffy, keeps a good eye on his master. Mr. Pecksniff visits them, and we learn that Anthony Chuzzlewit summoned him. The latter desires Jonas to wed Pecksniff's daughter (meaning his eldest, Charity) and requests Pecksniff to use his arts to make that happen. After this communication, Anthony Chuzzlewit falls seriously ill. And Jonas begs Mr. Pecksniff to stay with them, telling Pecksniff that in case something happens to old Anthony Chuzzlewit, he'll be suspected of foul play. The next morning, Anthony Chuzzlewit dies.

In chapter 19, we see funeral arrangements taking place. Jonas has become quite liberal with expenses. Mr. Pecksniff hires Mrs. Gamp (an interesting woman) to wait on the dead body. The body is buried after seven days following a grand procession. Jonas has spent royally to organise a splendid funeral. Looks like he has some ulterior motive for doing so. Is he guilty of something?

Chapter 20 takes us to Mr. Pecksniff's aboard. Mr. Jonas accompanies him for a change of scene. But Jonas Chuzzlewit has a motive. He wants to choose a wife from the two Pecksniff daughters. Contrary to what is expected (Pecksniff thinks Jonas will pick Charity), Jonas proposes to Mercy. Charity is angry and indignant. Amidst ensuing chaos, Old Mr. Chuzzlewit and Mary come to visit the Pecksniffs.

Chapter 21 takes us back to America. Martin and Mark are travelling to a place called Walley of Eden. On their way, they meet Colonel Choke (to whom a letter of recommendation was given by Mr. Bevan). Colonel introduces them to the agent, Mr. Scabbard. Martin does business right on the spot by buying a property without seeing or knowing where it physically is. Marting has already struck a partnership with Mark, since he will be risking Mark's money too in his business venture, but conveniently forgets to treat Mark as an equal.

Chapter 22 describes events in the National Hotel before the departure of Martin and Mark to the Valley of Eden.

Chapter 23 takes Martin and Mark to their destination. Martin realizes his mistake and plunges into depression. Mark tries to cheer him up, but in vain. The morning following their arrival, Martin complains of aches and pains. He feels weak. It looks like he's caught a fever.

The story is slowly taking shape. How do you like it so far?

In which "one of the partners retires unexpectedly". Good one, Mr Dickens. The relationship between Jonas and Anthony Chuzzlewit puzzled me. Despite the verbal abuse, the father seems to have been exceedingly proud of his son. And, amazingly, Jonas seems to have been fond of his father, too! Yet, why was he so fearful that someone might suspect foul play in Chuzzlewit's death? And why would Jonas be jealous of someone like Mr Chuffey, who seems like an older version of Tom Pinch to me?

Then again, Jonas doesn't seem very bright. Charity was perfect for him! They would have had the same purpose in life (money) and I thought that his business interests would surpass everything else. I was wrong in that and Jonas may have other, more sinister ambitions in life.

I was very much entertained by the dark humour of ch. 19. The undertaker (Mr Mould! 🤣), the doctor, the mourners as well as the curious Mrs Gamp all faking their feelings with an eye to business.

On the other hand, I was completely lost reading the chapters set in America. I think that I am not sufficiently familiar with the cultural, historical and linguistic aspects of the time and place to grasp the meaning of what's being said. I do get the big points about freedom and liberty, slavery, capitalism, of course, but most of the finer points go right over my head. Ch. 22 seemed entirely pointless to me.

In the last chapter, Martin finally loses his arrogance after realizing that he has invested both his and Mark's fortune in a dismal, pestilent and forgotten place in the middle of nowhere. To be continued...

Mr Dickens is also a master of the cliffhanger. Whenever it gets really interesting, he'll switch to one of the other story lines for a few chapters...

Piyangie wrote: "Looks like he has some ulterior motive for doing so. Is he guilty of something?..."

There was definitely something off here! He looked very guilty of, if not crime, then negligence, but there aren't any other clues given that Jonas might have contemplated such a step.

Lindenblatt wrote: "Piyangie wrote: "Looks like he has some ulterior motive for doing so. Is he guilty of something?..."

There was definitely something off here! He looked very guilty of, if not crime, then negligenc..."

Yes, there are no clues. But Jonas's behaviour is odd. Perhaps he felt guilty of secretly wishing for his father's death.

Lindenblatt, I too felt the same about Mr. Chuffy. He truly seems to be an older version of Tom Pinch - a loyal friend.

I thought Jonas's choice of a wife is deliberate. Charity is spirited and would be a match for him. But Mercy is just a giddy girl, someone who he could easily control. I think we'll soon see the true colours of Jonas.

I completely agree with you on chapter 22. It made no sense to me either. It could have been dispensed with, in my opinion. Overall, I was bit bored with the chapters set in America. There is no proper subplot, just a word play.

I forgot to mention how much I enjoy the illustrations in my edition. Especially this one!

You are probably right about Jonas. He wants to control his wife and he knows that, as a husband, the law will be on his side. I just feel that there is even more to it. Like he will actually enjoy making her suffer.

My edition also has illustrations. The one you've shared was particularly hilarious, Lindenblatt.

I remember Jonas getting caught reading his fathers will, maybe he interfered with it. I think he may have chosen Mercy because he thought he could get a larger dowry from Pecksmith.

I was completely lost on chapter 22 like everyone else.

I am beginning to really dislike the protagonist, he is so stupid; no surveyor would purchase property without viewing it first, It’s farcical and I wondered how the two of them are going to get out of the mess that they’re in. I’ll leave you with my conjecture on that subject-just by chance while excavating a trench maybe they strike gold????

Neil wrote: "...and I wondered how the two of them are going to get out of the mess that they’re in. I’ll leave you with my conjecture on that subject-just by chance while excavating a trench maybe they strike gold????..."

Mark Tapley might just do that. He certainly seems to be a Lucky Hans (is that an English expression, too?)lucky fellow.

Edit: Hans in Luck actually lost everything, which did made him exceedingly happy, though.

We have already been given a number of strong hints about Jonas’ dodgy business dealings, the nature of which his father seemed entirely unaware. Jonas’ loud ongoing complaint that his father would live forever seemed to contradict involvement in such a sudden death, yet I wouldn’t be surprised if he was involved in his demise in some way, having finally run out of patience.

As for proposing to the ‘other one,’ Charity was always the decoy to disguise his real intentions. Jonas might turn out to be a very nasty piece of work. Whilst unhappy Charity is full of woe and all Mercy can do is giggle, I don’t see the younger one having much to laugh about as the future Mrs. Jonas.

Although a simple name, Mr. Mould the undertaker might just be my favourite name so far. Mrs. Gamp was also very entertaining.

As for young Martin, investing all his wealth ( and Mark’s) in ‘Eden’ ‘so choked with slime and matted growth was the hideous swamp which bore that name,’ he must have sunk almost to the lowest point he could get in his life.



Whilst Martin despairs of his situation, the indomitable Mark is only stimulated to even higher levels of ‘jollification.’

’ Now, Mr Tapley,' said Mark, giving himself a tremendous blow in the chest by way of reviver, 'just you attend to what I've got to say. Things is looking about as bad as they CAN look, young man. You'll not have such another opportunity for showing your jolly disposition, my fine fellow, as long as you live. And therefore, Tapley, Now's your time to come out strong; or Never!'

I am assuming Martin won’t die of the fever, so the only way must be up from here and that is what I am anticipating in the following chapters.

I have been short on time this week so have not finished all the chapters in this reading. Still have 22 and 23 to go.

I agree with all the comments about Jonas. I get the feeling that he has something to hide that we don't quite know yet, probably in relation to the will or I also thought it could have something to do with so many relatives clamoring for the assets that anything that does not benefit their take will point to Jonas as the cause.

The funeral preparations and procession were very interesting. Particularly poignant to me how Chuffly is the only character with true emotional regard (attachment) to Anthony and all the others feign their emotion, probably because all they are really interested in is the "stuff" they can get out of: whether as a recipient of the assets or indulgence in the fruits of the funereal proceedings, like the food and wine. Further, the portrayal of the temporary nature of the funeral decorations - like the plumes, horses, velvet fittings - is masterful and vivid. I loved Mould and how Dickens described his physical manifestations during this: looking into his hat an extra second before putting it onto his head and checking his countenance in a mirror then readjusting (I think that was Mould who did that - I don't have the book in front of me to check it). Brilliant!

The scene with Martin and Mark heading west from NY seemed a little disjointed. Main themes for me are that they are identified as outsiders by the locals and perhaps this made them victims for scammers. Martin's pompous airs definitely seemed to draw attention from those on the train. I wondered how much truth there was to the Queen's physical location being/not being the Tower of London - I wanted to side with Martin on that one but the argument presented by Kettle and the General felt very compelling. Some quick research shows that there is some truth to it:
https://www.englishmonarchs.co.uk/tow...

Neil wrote: "I remember Jonas getting caught reading his fathers will, maybe he interfered with it. I think he may have chosen Mercy because he thought he could get a larger dowry from Pecksmith.

I was complet..."

That shows what sort of a young man Martin is: Vain, too confident, and gullible. He is about to learn a lesson that he won't forget for life. Already, we are beginning to see that.

Perhaps you're right, Neil. It may be the dowry. But whatever the reason is, it's a good escape for Charity. Nothing good will come from a marriage to a man like Jonas. Poor Mercy!

Trev wrote: "We have already been given a number of strong hints about Jonas’ dodgy business dealings, the nature of which his father seemed entirely unaware. Jonas’ loud ongoing complaint that his father would..."

I agree with you, Trev. Nothing is beyond that man, Jonas, although nothing direct is shown of his involvement in his father's death, only the vague hints of Mr. Chuffy. And as you said, Merry won't have any happiness as Mrs. Jonas.

Martin will survive—he must. It's more or less his story. I hope he will mend his ways and become a better man worthy of Mary Graham.

Take your time, Kim. There is no hurry.

I, too, found the argument between Martin and Kettle & Co. highly entertaining. I sided with Martin. But it looks like Kettle and Co. had some ground for their argument. Thanks for the information.

I have mentioned these maps before. Both ‘The Charles Dickens Page’ and ‘The Londonist’ have taken the trouble to map every location mentioned in Dickens’ novels and other works.

For example on the Londonist’s map you can find Mr. Mould the undertaker on Cheapside, almost next door to ‘Anthony Chuzzlewit and Son.’


Maps of London locations are here. - Beware! - you may come across some spoilers in the explanations.

https://www.charlesdickenspage.com/ch...

https://www.charlesdickenspage.com/lo...

https://www.charlesdickenspage.com/ch...

https://londonist.com/london/maps/dic...

More maps on this page - mainly relating to other novels.

https://www.charlesdickenspage.com/

Mark continues to be a strong young man, as well as a strongly-drawn character, and his strength emphasizes Martin's emotional weakness and selfishness. I think Mark suspected all along that they were being bilked, but he deferred to Martin's enthusiasm even though he (Mark) is contributing more money to the partnership. I hope this is where Martin begins to learn his life lessons.
Jonas is reprehensible. As many of you have commented, he has a guilty conscience about something. Whether he feels guilt for wishing his father dead or because he has actually done something evil, I can't guess. I agree that Mercy is in for a miserable existence as his wife; I wish she had refused him, but that would have meant passing up an opportunity to show up her sister.
I did appreciate the humorous portrayal of Mrs. Gamp who rarely takes a sip of alcohol (but leave the bottle, please!). And Mr. Mould is definitely one of the best names in Dickens.

Thanks for your informative input, Trev. Much appreciated.

Agree with you, Nancy. Mark is the best-drawn character and the most likable as well. Mark has a shrewd sense of things and a keen intelligence, whereas Martin is a gullible fool. Of the two, Mark is the superior one.