Hugo & Nebula Awards: Best Novels discussion

The Computer Connection no spoilers thread

Starting today, sight read. I've had a 1975 SF Book Club edition on my shelf for several years, it'll be good to send it off to a new home. If the first few pages are any indication, it's a freaky New Wave story, which I guess is why it's a Dreaded choice.

I got an AI-generated audiobook, gonna check how it compares with real narrators

I started this today. 23 pages in I’m finding it entertainingly written, though dated.

A few pages further along I’m feeling there were good grounds to dread this one. But I’ll persevere.

Done. Fun!

I've started it. My edition has a preface by Harlan Ellison, where he praises the author

Halfway through. Struggling a bit with it, it reminds me of reading Dick's VALIS trilogy. However, it does strike me as amazing that Bester could not write a novel for 20 years, then turn up with a book that fits perfectly into the SF New Wave.

In reading his Wiki page, I discovered that he worked for DC Comics as a young man in the 1940's, on popular comics Green Lantern ("In brightest day, in blackest night..." was his), the Phantom & Mandrake the Magician.

I liked it much better than I thought I would

It is interesting, with an attempt to shock the reader. To some extent, the future reminds me of The Marching Morons: Cyril M. Kornbluth's View of the Future: The Little Black Bag, The Marching Morons Search the Sky. However, behind the shocking exterior, I'm not sure yet, is there anything of value?

I am only about a third of the way through. I think it is clever and well written, but I can’t say I’m enthusiastic about it, to this point. I’ll see how I feel when I finish.

As I wrote earlier, I got an AI-generated audiobook from Audible. It does a-ok job, even with mixed languages, but the details are hard to follow. Like in Ch.1, when describing their team, "A writer—D. H. Lawrence, I think—smelled the truth when he met Jacy in 1900 and turned it into a fantastic story about how Jacy might have lived a normal life if he’d only balled a bod." Even Google doesn't help with what "balling a bod" means. is it short for a body? So, I started eye-reading it

I understand the phrase now, he uses to ball in the meaning to f*ck. Is in an existing slang or book's invention?

Oleksandr wrote: "I understand the phrase now, he uses to ball in the meaning to f*ck. Is in an existing slang or book's invention?"

Existing slang I believe, though I don’t remember it being used around me in my limited experience. I think I saw it in print in places like Rolling Stone magazine when I was a kid.

Oleksandr wrote: "I understand the phrase now, he uses to ball in the meaning to f*ck. Is in an existing slang or book's invention?"

I believe that slang meaning originated in African-American culture going back at least to the 1950's. I first heard it in the Little Richard song from 1958, "Good Golly Miss Molly" (the first line is "Good golly, Miss Molly, sure like to ball") . The reference was clearly not understood by white American DJ's and censors, which I've always wondered at, because it's pretty clear in the song what they're talking about.

Allan wrote: "I first heard it in the Little Richard song from 1958, .."

I know the song and now I recall multiple mentions of this noun and verb, but I always assumed that it meant 'to go to a ball' or 'to dance'. I am aware that to dance can be an ephemism for the same... I have a CD collection of songs from the 1990s Risqué Rhythm∶ Nasty 50s R&B - this one https://www.discogs.com/release/21839... and yes, there was a lot of double-meaning in those days as you can see even from the titles

Looking at the CD, I'm betting my husband would love it. I forwarded it on to him.

Oleksandr wrote: " I have a CD collection of songs..."

lol, clearly curated for the most risque songs. But you can see that it was clearly common to push the censors to the limit. I'm sure none of those made it to common airplay, although a cover of "Big Ten Inch Record" was on Aerosmith's hugely popular 1975 album, Toys in the Attic. By that time, the censors had loosened up a bit.

I have a copy of a CD collection of risque blues songs from an earlier period:

https://www.discogs.com/release/22592...

Might be somewhat similar.

Every time I pick this novel up and read another 10-15 pages I like it less. I’m not finding it engaging at all.

Stephen wrote: "I have a copy of a CD collection of risque blues songs from an earlier period:"

I became curious how early these risque songs started and found out that there is even a term for them - hokum blues https://www.wikiwand.com/en/articles/...

Stephen wrote: "Every time I pick this novel up and read another 10-15 pages I like it less. I’m not finding it engaging at all."

I'm with you all the way. Just trying to pick my way through it.

Stephen wrote: "Every time I pick this novel up and read another 10-15 pages I like it less. I’m not finding it engaging at all."

Strange that we have such a different impression. I think maybe this is a book that you need to read in bigger amounts than 10-15 pages. Maybe?

My normal sight teading rate is 10-15 pages at a sitting. If I get in more sittings, I can do better, but it just depends on what’s going on.

If I were more engaged by the book I’d be less inclined to put it down after a few pages. That said, when I wrote that comment about picking it up and reading 10-15 pages it was pretty late and I was tired.

I just wrote a fairly detailed paragraph trying to describe what I think of the book at this point (about the 2/3 mark) but I wasn’t happy with what I wrote. The novel is flashy and absurd, dated in its humour and satire, clever but to me generally unsympathetic, I’m afraid. I’m finding it readable, but when the absurdities, details and fast-paced developments begin to pile up, I want to take a break.

“Datedness” wouldn’t necessarily bother me. I’m an old guy and I like mid-20th century books. There’s just something missing here, for me.

Stephen wrote: "clever but to me generally unsympathetic"

I like that statement! To some extent I felt the same way about this novel. Maybe turning eternal makes a cynic out of a person, and this is what the author tried to highlight. However, for most readers (me included), caring about protagonists is an important factor in enjoying a book

Oleksandr wrote: "...caring about protagonists is an important factor in enjoying a book ..."

When you can discern who the protagonists are...

Allan wrote: "When you can discern who the protagonists are..."

True, but in most cases it is evident

Strange that I am liking something as weird as this more than you guys

It has occurred to me that the immortal “group” and their origin stories are reminiscent of old fashioned comics superheroes. As Allan mentioned previously, Bester worked on superhero comics earlier in his career.

I finished the book; it has its virtues but it basically left me cold, as I commented above. 3 stars.

Stephen wrote: "It has occurred to me that the immortal “group” and their origin stories are reminiscent of old fashioned comics superheroes. As Allan mentioned previously, Bester worked on superhero comics earlie..."

An interesting point, but usually superheroes have superpowers, while these have flashy names and rather ordinary, if polished by millennia, skills

Kateblue wrote: "Strange that I am liking something as weird as this more than you guys"

I actually liked some quips like
We picked up a couple of girls who claimed they were coeds and might well have been; one of them could recite the alphabet all the way to L. The only problem was how to stop her from reciting.

Oleksandr wrote: "usually superheroes have superpowers, while these have flashy names and rather ordinary, if polished by millennia, skills ."

Well, “Herb” Wells has his time machine, and they all seem to be more than just pretty formidable, but it’s true, there’s nothing like, say, The Flash’s superspeed. (Discounting the immortality of course.) Still the various origin stories with their extreme circumstances are a bit like Barry Allen being struck by lightning and bathed in a random stew of chemicals, or whatever it was.

I agree that they are probably not "superheroes" but I think really long life can turn you into a super brain because you have enough time to learn everything . . .