Never too Late to Read Classics discussion

1970 - The Collected Works of Billy the Kid by Michael Ondaatje 105 pgs

Billy the Kid (aka William H. Bonney / Henry McCarty / Henry Antrim) is not the clichéd dimestore comicbook gunslinger later parodied within the pages of this book. Instead, he is a beautiful and dangerous chimera with a voice: driven and kinetic, he also yearns for blankness and rest. A poet and lover, possessing intelligence and sensory discernment far beyond his life’s 21 year allotment, he is also a resolute killer. His friend and nemesis is Sheriff Pat Garrett, who will go on to his own fame (or infamy) for Billy’s execution.

A short work of important events in the life of William Bonney, aka Billy the Kid, and his conflict with Sheriff Pat Garrett. Are you ready for Billy?

Oh yay, is it already time for Billy the Kid? I'm looking forward to checking this out and to reading Ondaatje who I have not read before, though I suppose The English Patient made him a bit of a household name.
Oh and I believe this book can be found on Archive.org, just FYI.

My county's library system doesn't have this one, sadly, but I broke down and purchased it myself. It looks like an interesting read!

Welcome Jen and Greg.
I have order both the FWC books for this month so hopefully soon!

Lesle wrote: "Welcome Jen and Greg.
I have order both the FWC books for this month so hopefully soon!"

I'm going to my nephew's wedding in Tennessee on the weekend of the 10th-12th, and there's a lot of plane time and plane layover time so I plan to read it then.

I normally do much of my reading as audiobooks on the way to work, but I'm guessing this is one I want a physical copy for. All the plane and plane layover time will be a perfect chance!

Greg wrote: "but I'm guessing this is one I want a physical copy for. All the plane and plane layover time will be a perfect chance!..."

Sounds wonderful Greg! Cannot wait to hear your thoughts.

I'm only about 1/3 of the way through right now, on page 31 out of 118, but at the moment I have to admit that I'm a little disappointed. There's still plenty of time for things to change though! I think part of the problem could be my very high expectations based on the reputation of The English Patient?

But the poetry so far doesn't overwhelm me as poetry. It's very violent, which I expected, but it's so impressionistic and jumbled that I often can't tell exactly what is being described.

For example:

(view spoiler)["the nerves shot out
the liver running around there
like a headless hen jerking
brown all over the yard"

Did his liver get severed from his body? How could it be running around then? Was the liver still getting shot more times, maybe? (hide spoiler)] It's often a little hard to picture or to be sure what's happening.

The violence is very clear though. Even the poems about sex are violent, (view spoiler)[lovemaking so wild it nearly breaks off the fingers (hide spoiler)].

What's missing so far is the story of Billy or his friends. All I have gotten to this point is a lot of messy violence. I'm not very squeamish; so that's ok. The problem is that I don't have a sense yet for who any of these people are, how they are related, or what their story is.

As the bookjacket says this book "traces the legendary outlaw's passage across the . . . landscape of 1880s New Mexico," I'm hoping to eventually get a little story here. The back cover has some wonderful appreciatory blurbs from giants like Larry McMurtry; so I'm hopeful that as the book progresses, I'll get at least a little more.

Greg I just got my copy in the mail today.
Need to finish another book first. Maybe beginning of next month, if I dont sneak and double book read lol

Lesle wrote: "Greg I just got my copy in the mail today.
Need to finish another book first. Maybe beginning of next month, if I dont sneak and double book read lol"

Sounds good Lesle! I always overestimate how much I can get to myself. Whenever you get to it, I look forward to hearing your thoughts.

Thank you Greg!

Greg wrote: "I'm only about 1/3 of the way through right now, on page 31 out of 118, but at the moment I have to admit that I'm a little disappointed. There's still plenty of time for things to change though! I..."

Oh no. Well that's... too bad I guess... :/ Well you've got me curious as to what I will make of it. I did get the impression it's a bit experimental in style. I'm glad it's short! haha
I'll be chiming in with my impressions eventually...

If I can find a copy, I would like to read this one. Looks interesting! I've been to Lincoln, NM, the historic village associated with Billy the Kid and the Lincoln County War. We went once when the kids were young. My husband has a family story about one of his ancestors who was left a bag of money and a horse to shoe. The man came by a few days later to get his horse. It was Billy the Kid's horse, so the story goes!

I checked out the audiobook on Hoopla. The Albuquerque library system has the print book but it's at the Special Collections branch, which houses historical books and genealogical records. So, I can't check it out but I can read it at the library. I'll try the audiobook first! Are there any photos or drawings? If yes, I'll take a trip to Special Collections.

Pam wrote: "I checked out the audiobook on Hoopla. The Albuquerque library system has the print book but it's at the Special Collections branch, which houses historical books and genealogical records. So, I ca..."

Hi Pam! Yes, it's an interesting mix of photographs, poetry, stories, and clippings. I don't think you'll miss much in the poetry in the audio version - the line breaks and visual aspects don't strike me as too important in these particular poems. But the photographs are nice to experience; they recall the past in a way that's a bit eerie in spots. I think they must be real photographs of the people being described.

Thanks Greg! I figured there were some photos, etc. I will have to plan a trip to the Special Collections branch and find the book. Glad to see you’ve joined the group!

Pam wrote: "Thanks Greg! I figured there were some photos, etc. I will have to plan a trip to the Special Collections branch and find the book. Glad to see you’ve joined the group!"

My pleasure Pam! Glad to be here!

I'm at page 79 out of 110 pages in my copy now, and I'm liking it better. As the book goes along, the poetry gets better as poetry, in my opinion, and both the stories and poems get much more coherent.

The style of the poetry is curious though. Some of them are so impressionistic and afire with conflicting and confused imagery that they remind me a little of poetry from the André Breton's group of Surrealists in 1920s France.

(view spoiler)["The eyes bright scales
(watch) bullet claws coming
at me like women fingers
. . .
red grey brain the hair slow
startled by it all pour
Miss Angela D her eyes like a boat
on fire her throat is a kitchen
warm on my face heaving
my head mouth out
she swallows your breath
like warm tar pour . . . ."

Hard to know exactly what is happening there, except a confusion of bullets and violence. (hide spoiler)] All I can get in poems like this one is a general impression.

But some other poems settle down just a bit, and they can be quite lovely. Never for a moment are they sentimental, but they're lovely within their harsh grit.

(view spoiler)[". . . and my fingers touch
this soft blue paper notebook
. . .
mapping my thinking going its own way
like light wet glasses drifting on polished wood."

I love that imagery of thinking drifting off unexpectedly, like the wet glasses moving unexpectedly on the wood. It feels right.

And then later in the same poem:

"The acute nerves spark
on the periphery of our bodies
while the block trunk of us
blunders as if we were
those sun drugged horses."

Again, I find the aptness quite beautiful . . . the body's sluggish reaction as the nerves spark to danger. (hide spoiler)]

But in these poems that function better as poems, I have a hard time imagining Billy the Kid being this sophisticated in expression though? Maybe that's just my own prejudice? I really don't know much about him or other true outlaws of the West.

I suppose that's part of Ondaatje's point, that Billy is a more complex figure than we assume. There's no doubting the extreme violence in his actions, but Ondaatje seems to be trying to find something else there underneath the brutality. I'm not sure yet what that is though, other than a bit more sophistication and some shreds of remaining humanity.

This book doesn't pull any punches. It's as gritty as it gets; the violence is explicit and gory, and some of these stories are the stuff of nightmares, like the one about (view spoiler)[Livingstone's dogs (hide spoiler)]. Oh my, that dog story. Oh, oh my! "Nasty," indeed! It goes beyond what words can say. I think every one of my offline friends would've given up on the book in the middle of that story, if they hadn't already. But it is an effective story, in depicting (view spoiler)[a perversion of mind and inhuman horror (hide spoiler)].

The main question coming to my mind as I read this book is:

How do human beings get to a point like this? How does a human heart close itself off so completely that it can allow a human being to do such things? I don't know if this book has given me an answer yet. Living in an atmosphere of such casual and overweening violence can't be psychologically healthy, and these men are continually locked in battles for survival. But some like John and Sallie seem to have found a way to preserve some humanity inside of it.

And what does it say that a part of us as human beings is drawn to such people? What was the fascination with Billy in the larger culture all about? Again, I don't have answers yet. But I'll circle back after finishing the book and think on these questions again.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this Greg.

Lesle wrote: "Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this Greg."

My pleasure Lesle! Looking forward to your and Pam's thoughts when you both get around to reading it.

Hopefully, I'm putting everything in spoilers that I need to. I know this read goes through December. If anyone feels that more of my posts need to be under spoilers, please let me know!

Greg wrote: "If anyone feels that more of my posts need to be under spoilers, please let me know!..."

Greg did not click on your spoilers and felt that you provided personal thoughts not spoilers.

Pam wrote: "If I can find a copy, I would like to read this one. Looks interesting! I've been to Lincoln, NM, the historic village associated with Billy the Kid and the Lincoln County War. We went once when th..."

I just finished!

I know almost nothing about the Lincoln County War; so it'll be interesting to hear from you and others that know more.

I'll wait until more people get further along in the book before I post detailed final thoughts. Looking forward to your, Jen's and Lesle's comments. I didn't hate it, but I hope that all of you end up liking it a bit more than I did. I gave it three stars (really 2.5 stars rounded up).

Im thinking if I remember right the Lincoln County War was between two men over dry good stores and cattle. Both wanting control.
The hired men of the one man had the other killed, Tunstall, who had hired Billy with others for cowboying and protection.
They ended up forming the Regulators and sought revenge for Tunstall's death. Which took a while for them to track them down and kill them.
The defining moments were a gunfight that took place over several days, in Lincoln, killing many including the Sheriff. That is when Pat Garrett came in to the scene.
It took several years for all the killings to take place and ended with Billy and others dead by Garrett.

This is just my memory from reading the Pat Garrett's The Authentic Life of Billy the Kid which he wrote shortly after Billy's death.

Lesle wrote: "Im thinking if I remember right the Lincoln County War was between two men over dry good stores and cattle. Both wanting control.
The hired men of the one man had the other killed, Tunstall, who ha..."

Thanks Lesle!

That puts quite a different tilt on things for me. The book doesn't make this background very clear. If Billy was serving one of the sides in larger dispute, whether he took it too far or not, he wasn't just an outright bandit.

Greg wrote: "whether he took it too far or not, he wasn't just an outright bandit...."

Yes he really wasnt at first. Regulators were a deputized posse all of them including Billy. They were by justice of the peace Wilson to serve as lawmen seeking justice for the murder of Tunstall.

After the shootout in the Lincoln County War, Governor Wallace stated that they were deputized unlawfully by Wilson. The Governor was coerced by a political ring (politicians and businessmen who felt harmed by Billy) to go against his secret pardon to Billy. Billy escaped jail (against the governor) which made him a fugitive.
Wallace offered a $500 reward for Billy's capture. This led to Sheriff Pat Garrett tracking down and killing Billy in 1881.

There is much more to this but you are correct Greg. He really was not an outlaw.

Side note: funny how things havent changed muched in 140+ years that politics has a lot of influence.

Wow, so interesting Lesle! I wish Ondaatje had covered more of that. This book is so impressionistic that I think it probably has the best impact on someone who already knows the history? Anyway, when others get to reading, we'll see what others think. I was pretty much a blank slate going in.

Greg wrote: "Wow, so interesting Lesle! I wish Ondaatje had covered more of that. This book is so impressionistic that I think it probably has the best impact on someone who already knows the history? Anyway, w..."

I recommend the book by Pat Garrett if you are interested.
I really like reading about Billy.
I like that kind of history. Kind of why I want to read about the Hatfields and the McCoys.

Thank you, Lesle for all the history! All I remember is visiting the jail and seeing the Torreon. I haven’t read much about Billy the Kid. I have read a little bit (or maybe I watched something on TV) about the Hatfields and the McCoys, as you mentioned. That was an interesting and ridiculous feud!

I only listened to the beginning of the book. Something about Pat Garrett teaching himself French and how to drink. I think I fell asleep so I’ll have to rewind it and try again!

Pam wrote: "I think I fell asleep so I’ll have to rewind it and try again! ..."

I have that issue all the time if the book just moves along. Has to be exciting to keep me from falling asleep in the evening.

I got hooked on Billy when I watched Young Guns.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_G...

Had to know if it was close to reality or not. Mostly not but still got me interested enough to know the truth.

Lesle wrote: "I recommend the book by Pat Garrett if you are interested.
I really like reading about Billy.
I like that kind of history. Kind of why I want to read about the Hatfields and the McCoys."

Thanks for the recommendation Lesle!

Pam wrote: "I only listened to the beginning of the book. Something about Pat Garrett teaching himself French and how to drink. I think I fell asleep so I’ll have to rewind it and try again"

And Pam, yeah, the first half is very impressionistic. Don't expect a whole lot of story for a little while. On paper, the book is about half poetry, and the poems are snippets of time, mostly violent disjointed moments.

Greg wrote: "Lesle wrote: "I recommend the book by Pat Garrett if you are interested...."

Your more than welcome Greg.
It is a short read too!

Did anyone else make it through this one? Just curious if anyone liked it better than me. I didn't really love it, but it got some wonderful positive blurbs from some very famous and talented writers. So I think I must have been missed something.

Greg I still have plans for this one.

I apologize no excuse just blaming it on goodreads shenanigans!! lol

Lesle wrote: "Greg I still have plans for this one.

I apologize no excuse just blaming it on goodreads shenanigans!! lol"

haha, no worries! I imagine all the new developments have absorbed a huge amount of time!