The Readers Review: Literature from 1714 to 1910 discussion

Pride and Prejudice
Week 3: Volume II, Chapters 1 - 8
Discussion Questions


1. Charlotte’s decision to marry Mr. Collins is practical rather than romantic. Do you find Charlotte’s reasoning empowering, cynical, or simply realistic for her circumstances? Does Elizabeth judge her too harshly, or is Elizabeth’s perspective justified?

2. Mr. Collins’ self-importance becomes even more pronounced once he is settled at Hunsford. Do you see him as merely comedic, or is Austen using him to critique certain social institutions or personalities? How does living in his own home make him better or worse?

3. Lady Catherine is introduced as a caricature of aristocratic entitlement. How does Austen use Lady Catherine to expose the absurdities of class hierarchy? Do you view her as intimidating, ridiculous, or a mix of both?

4. At Rosings, Elizabeth is in an environment where she does not have social power. How does she handle the imbalance between her status and Lady Catherine’s authority? Does her behavior in these chapters change your perception of her confidence?

5. Everyone assumes Darcy will marry his sickly cousin, Anne. How does this assumption shape Elizabeth’s views of Darcy in these chapters? How does it contribute to the tension once Darcy begins acting strangely around her?

6. Darcy’s behavior during his visits to Rosings becomes increasingly awkward and inconsistent. What clues does Austen provide here that Darcy’s feelings for Elizabeth have deepened? Why might Elizabeth misinterpret or dismiss those clues?

7. These chapters highlight marriages as economic and social arrangements (Charlotte & Collins, the presumed Darcy–Anne match). How does Austen critique the transactional nature of marriage? Where do you see her endorsing or challenging the norms of her society?

8. Austen uses humor—especially in Mr. Collins’ speeches and Lady Catherine’s interrogations. How does the humor achieve more than simple entertainment? Which moments in these chapters strike you as the sharpest or most revealing satire?

9. Elizabeth and Charlotte make very different choices with the limited agency they possess. Which of them is navigating the constraints of their society more effectively? Is Elizabeth’s refusal to compromise ultimately privileged, idealistic, or admirable?

10. The atmosphere at Rosings is simultaneously stifling and absurd. How does Austen’s depiction of the setting itself heighten the themes of pride, class, and self-importance? How does the setting shape Elizabeth’s reactions and the development of Darcy’s feelings?

This is one of my favorite sections of the book: I love the passage at arms at the piano, and the ways Austen uses inconsistent juxtapositions to give us subtle warnings about surprises to cone.

The introduction of Colonel Fitzwilliam highlights the oddity of Mr. Darcy’s behavior (as well as that of Lady Catherine and Miss de Bourgh) and allows us to see what well-bred drawing room behavior ought to be. Lady Catherine really is a caricature who serves to reinforce Elizabeth’s beliefs about Darcy’s attitudes; the sentence “The party then gathered round the fire to hear Lady Catherine determine what weather they were to have on the morrow” sums her up neatly. Vintage Jane Austen.

Moving backwards in this section, Gem’s probing questions helped me notice just how harsh Elizabeth’s judgment of Charlotte’s choice to marry Mr. Collins is. She describes it as a failure of her “principle and integrity”! Even mild Jane has to reprove her for using language that is “too strong.”

And those comments in turn highlight her inconsistent lenience when Mr. Wickham starts pursuing the suddenly-rich Miss King. We start to get little hints that Elizabeth’s judgment is not always to be 100% relied on, no matter how sympathetic we find her. Aunt Gardiner is much more troubled by Wickham’s pursuit of Miss King than Elizabeth allows herself to be, and twice casts doubt on his ethics while Elizabeth defends him, thus in turn casting some doubt on Elizabeth’s assessment that “he must always be her model of the amiable and pleasing.”

There’s other more equivocal language as well, as when based on her first hours at Hunsford she paints a comprehensive portrait of what her visit there will be like, and Jane Austen says wryly, “A lively imagination soon settled it all.”

Shoals ahead.

That's a great thing about Elizabeth, is that she thinks she is always right, and she often is, but not always. This makes her more relatable. How many of us have had to revise our opinion of someone (up or down) as we got to know them better?

Elizabeth is not a typical romantic who will swoon over a man, but she refuses a cold marriage of convenience. Even if Wickham were a better person, I'm not sure he would satisfy her, he is shallow, it's all surface charm. Darcy has no surface charm, but we begin to see there is more going on underneath the blank exterior.

Gem wrote: "4. At Rosings, Elizabeth is in an environment where she does not have social power. How does she handle the imbalance between her status and Lady Catherine’s authority? ..."

At the moment of Elizabeth's first meeting with Lady Catherine, "... whatever she said was spoken in so authoritative a tone, as marked her self importance, and brought Mr. Wickham intermediately to Elizabeth's mind; and from the observation of the day altogether, she believed Lady Catherine to be exactly what he had represented." Elizabeth has been preparing herself to not be intimidated, and her self talk during the introductions is part of that.

Here is an wood-engraving by Joan Hassall for the 1975 Folio edition, of the scene in Ch. 5, Volume II, where they are first introduced.

Mr. Collins is the perfect clergyman for Lady Catherine, so happy to be condescended to, agreeing with everything she says, running his household as she recommends, etc. And Charlotte just adds Lady Catherine to the burden she knew she was getting into when she got married. I wonder what will happen when there are children and Lady Catherine dictates how to raise them. It seems that Charlotte's home was loving, though somewhat ineffectual, and she will undoubtedly care for her children, since Collins gives her little scope for that.

There’s quite an interesting novel about Charlotte’s married life—The Clergyman's Wife: A Pride & Prejudice Novel by Molly Greeley. The same author wrote a novel about Anne de Bourgh, The Heiress: The Revelations of Anne de Bourgh. One of the best of the Austenesque writers.

Yes, I read The Clergyman's Wife but I had forgotten the title. I'll have to check out the other one. There are definitely books about Mary Bennet and Georgianna Darcy. There must be one about Kitty since she is such a blank slate.

There are hundreds if not thousands of books based on all the P&P characters—many of them, sadly, are drek. But it’s not all fan fiction, some are quite serious.

There is a quite good analysis of Lady Catherine on Wikipedia. It will make the most sense to those who have read the whole novel, and contains potential spoilers. It is particularly good on how she interferes in official jurisdictions, and how Mr. Collins improperly abets her.

Ian wrote: "There is a quite good analysis of Lady Catherine on Wikipedia. It will make the most sense to those who have read the whole novel, and contains potential spoilers. It is particularly good on how sh..."

Sounds interesting! Thanks, Ian.

Like Abigail, I also enjoyed reading this section. On this reread my attentions were drawn to Eliza’s differences in temperament at the three houses she visited.

In starting with the way Wickham dumped her for an heiress, this really revealed her insecurities rather than the fact that she was able to brush a dalliance such as his aside without a scratch on her emotions. Her argument about Wickham needing money more than needing her might have been valid but she could not admit that he actually deserted her at the drop of a hat with a haste that smacked of impropriety.

Surely the Wickham abandonment was the real reason for her wanting a change of scenery rather than being left at home with her younger sisters. Even the solace of her father’s conversation wasn’t enough for her to stay at the scene of the Wickham rebuff.

But despite Eliza’s seemingly extrovert nature with her brash, mouthy outbursts, her insecurities are revealed during her travels. There seemed to be a great gasp of relief escaping from Eliza during her brief visit to her aunt in Gracechurch Street. It wasn’t just because Jane was there. Her ‘working class’ relatives’ home felt like a warm bath (surrounded with candles) that she could relax in, and even better - take the armour off.

Pleasantly wrapped up in that fluffy towelled comfortable atmosphere was the real Elizabeth. Her delight at being asked to holiday with her aunt and family showed her at her most sincere.

’ Oh, my dear, dear aunt,” she rapturously cried, “what delight! what felicity! You give me fresh life and vigour. Adieu to disappointment and spleen. What are young men to rocks and mountains?’

Considering that Gracechurch street was situated in one of the busiest parts of the city of London, what a contrast to the perfectly serene Eliza basking in the friendship and familiarity of the merchant family’s home.

Eliza dons the armour once more for her arrival at Hunsford, expecting (almost hoping it feels to me) that Charlotte would be unhappy having realised her mistake. What she finds (surprisingly) is that Charlotte has not only embraced her new situation but also carved out a significant niche of her own personal time to pursue her particular pastimes. Charlotte’s astute ‘management’ of her husband has allowed them both to settle into a life they can take pleasure from. Eliza probably has no notion yet of ‘give and take’ so it must remain something of a mystery to her that Charlotte seems so contented.

Elizaa’s armour is strengthened for the visits to Rosings, where she employs the full on mouthy madam artillery in the face of attacks from Lady Catherine. I agree with Abigail that Lady Catherine is a caricature, but for me too much of a caricature to be believable. Straight away she reminded me of P. G. Wodehouse’s Aunt Agatha from the Jeeves and Wooster stories. However, I actually agreed with her about Lydia and Kitty being ‘out’ far too prematurely.

It is in this section that Darcy crucially first pierces Eliza’s armour during their ‘engagement’ at the piano.

Unlike the relaxed Eliza in Gracechurch Street, the defensive Eliza was being at her least sincere and Darcy was not going to let her get away with it.

Eliza fires the first salvo……

’ You mean to frighten me, Mr. Darcy, by coming in all this state to hear me? I will not be alarmed though your sister DOES play so well. There is a stubbornness about me that never can bear to be frightened at the will of others. My courage always rises at every attempt to intimidate me.”

But Darcy sends back a cannon ball……

’ “I shall not say you are mistaken,” he replied, “because you could not really believe me to entertain any design of alarming you; and I have had the pleasure of your acquaintance long enough to know that you find great enjoyment in occasionally professing opinions which in fact are not your own.”

The battle of attrition continues (Eliza firing the last shot,) with damage to both sides until an uneasy truce is reached.

’ My fingers,” said Elizabeth, “do not move over this instrument in the masterly manner which I see so many women’s do. They have not the same force or rapidity, and do not produce the same expression. But then I have always supposed it to be my own fault–because I will not take the trouble of practising. It is not that I do not believe MY fingers as capable as any other woman’s of superior execution.”

Darcy smiled and said, “You are perfectly right. You have employed your time much better. No one admitted to the privilege of hearing you can think anything wanting. We neither of us perform to strangers.”

Well the battle has definitely commenced. Eliza needs to carry out some repairs to that armour or discard it altogether.

Elizabeth Bennet generally enjoyed those visits to her aunts in Gracechurch Street. With all the hustle and bustle it must have been such a contrast to her country home. And yet to Elizabeth her aunts seemed like a haven to escape to.




Late 19th century photo of Gracechurch Street.

In her brief visit (Chapter 27) she still manages to get to the shops with Jane. But no wonder, because from Gracechurch Street they are just outside their door. Indeed Leadenhall market has an entrance on Gracechurch Street. Although originally a market for food, the market diversified and continued to evolve into what it is today.

https://www.visitlondon.com/blog/lead...

There was also a coaching Inn - The Spread Eagle, in Gracechurch Street where coaches left for many northern towns and Cities.



https://pubwiki.co.uk/LondonPubs///St...

For those interested in London Coaching Inns, more info here…

https://greatnorthroad.co.uk/london-c...

And here is a street plan of Gracechurch Street, (a few years later than in our novel) showing the merchants and shopkeepers who lived there. The plan can be enlarged or downloaded so that the names can be read more easily.

https://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/serv...-#

Thanks for all the images!

The conversation between Elizabeth and Darcy at the piano is so erudite - Did people really talk like that? We have so come down in the world, especially in the era of texting!

Great info and images, Trev! Really make that episode of the book come alive.

I think people really did talk like that. Elegant conversation was cultivated as a civilized skill, and people capable of it could transcend birth and poverty to be admitted to “high” society. Frances Burney had a gift for remembering conversations verbatim and her diaries are full of them. Another book that has delightful conversations is Maria Edgeworth’s Belinda, one we might consider reading if we haven’t already.

Ginny wrote: "Gem wrote: "4. At Rosings, Elizabeth is in an environment where she does not have social power. How does she handle the imbalance between her status and Lady Catherine’s authority? ..."

At the mom..."

Lady Catherine looks more like a sultan in this picture.