The Readers Review: Literature from 1714 to 1910 discussion
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Northanger Abbey
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Northanger Abbey 2015 - Background Information/Resources
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Apr 14, 2015 12:32PM
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My local chapter of the Jane Austen Society of North America recently had a meeting on the subject of The heroine, or Adventures of a fair romance reader by Eaton Stannard Barrett. It was written after Northanger Abbey but published a few before NA, and like NA, it mocks Gothic novel conventions. From the passages read at the meeting, it sounds like a hilarious book! Just in case anyone wants to read both together . . .
Abigail wrote: "My local chapter of the Jane Austen Society of North America recently had a meeting on the subject of The heroine, or Adventures of a fair romance reader by Eaton Stannard Barrett. I..."From Zuleika to Catherine Morland -- we're going to have fun comparing them as romantic heroines!
Whahaha! Oh, the possibilities!
Some stuff on The Gothic and its origins from the British Library:http://www.bl.uk/romantics-and-victor...
http://www.bl.uk/romantics-and-victor...
From an online blog on Northanger Abbey by Jesander:Northanger Abbey, as a parody, is oftentimes seen as a lesser novel when compared to Austen's other works. However, Northanger Abbey includes various types of narration, deep psychological investigation, and still manages to be a telling parody of the Gothic genre.
Northanger Abbey is also seen as didactic novel. Austen not only teaches young ladies what to live like, but she also shows authors and readers alike what a genuinely good book is made of.
Austen also employees free indirect speech, which incorporates several different perspectives into one narrative. This allows for an interesting relationship between the reader, characters, and narrators.
In Northanger Abbey, Austen specifically parodies Ann Radcliffe's The Mysteries of Udolpho, a stock novel in the Gothic genre.(view spoiler) In these ways, Austen parodies the Gothic genre, but manages to create a unique novel.
Is anyone interested in reading The Mystery of Udolpho as a tandem Buddy read?
MadgeUK wrote: "Some stuff on The Gothic and its origins from the British Library:http://www.bl.uk/romantics-and-victor...
http://www.bl.uk/romantics-and-victor......"
Fabulous resources, Madge. Did you get tot the exhibition the BL did on the Gothic? I thoroughly enjoyed it.
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Renee I would normally. I'm still trying to finish Little Dorrit so I dare not take on anything else.
In addition to The Mysteries of Udolpho, seven other novels are specifically mentioned as "must reads" for any self-respecting Gothic heroine. Often referred to as Jane Austen's or Northanger's Seven Horrid Novels, they are listed by one of the characters early on in the book. It's not really a spoiler, but I'll put the quote in spoiler brackets just to be on the safe side).(view spoiler)
Renee wrote: "Is anyone interested in reading The Mystery of Udolpho as a tandem Buddy read?"This is an excellent idea for anyone with the time to do so.
I'm afraid I've read both Northanger and Udolpho fairly recently, and it's still too soon to re-read either. I doubt that will prevent me from sticking my oar into the discussion from time to time, though ;-))
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This is an excellent idea for anyone with the time to do so.
I'm afraid I've read both Northanger and..."
We are always happy to have your comments.
Pip #8: Yes I saw the exhibition which is what reminded me to post about it. Some of it was very spooky!
Jane Austen told her brother that she wrote with a 'fine brush' but I see Northanger Abbey as being written with a broader brush than her other novels, which is perhaps why I like it: Letter to J. Edward Austen (1816-12-16) [Letters of Jane Austen -- Brabourne Edition]
'What should I do with your strong, manly, spirited sketches, full of variety and glow? How could I possibly join them on to the little bit (two inches wide) of ivory on which I work with so fine a brush, as produces little effect after much labour?'
Pip wrote: "In addition to The Mysteries of Udolpho, seven other novels are specifically mentioned as "must reads" for any self-respecting Gothic heroine. Often referred to as Jane Austen's or Nor..."Will enjoy discussing this passage when the official discussion opens. Meanwhile, thanks for reminding us of them.
In a spoiler also I have provided links to those I could find online editions of, which is only a couple. But many of them have been published fairly recently by Valancourt Books.
And I also discovered that Amazon sells a Kindle edition of The Complete Northanger Horrid Novel Collection (9 Books of Gothic Romance and Horror) for 99 cents. It includes the seven listed in the text that you quoted plus Udolpho plus one other mentioned elsewhere in NA.
http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Northa...
I have to admit that for 99 cents I suckered and bought it -- don't know when I'll have time to read it, but it seems something an Austen lover should own.
Anyhow, the list of the novels with links to those I could find online:
(view spoiler)
Agreed! Going to snap up the next copy now!
I would be interested in a Buddy read with [book:The Mysteries of Udolpho|93134. It would have to be in middle or late May. I promised a Buddy read with the Moonstone.
Mid to late May works for me.
I read a preview of The Mysteries of Udolpho. It was interesting. Mid to late May would work for me. I noticed the book has 624 pages. Might be a slow read into June.
I would also be interested in a buddy read for The Mysteries of Udolpho, but I would have to wait until the end of the 2nd week of May to start - end of the semester, and have all the final papers/debates to grade. And a slow read into June would work best for me as well.
Pip wrote: "In addition to The Mysteries of Udolpho, seven other novels are specifically mentioned as "must reads" for any self-respecting Gothic heroine. Often referred to as Jane Austen's or Nor..."She also mentions Matthew Lewis' "The Monk," which to me is the most interesting of the early Gothic novels. First, Lewis was only about 19 when he wrote it, and it took him about 3 months to write.
Also, you can actually see why people would be scared by the novel (unlike books like The Mysteries of Udolpho). Very bizarre, and highlights a lot of the elements of the Gothic novel at that time.
Lynn - gosh, yes, The Monk. It's very close to the bone, even by modern standards. It's difficult to imagine Genteel Jane and her contemporaries even getting hold of copies, let alone reading them. Incidentally, it's no coincidence that novels like The Monk, Udolpho and The Italian are set in Latin countries; Catholicism was still considered the evil of the time by many with its superstition, closed communities, smells and bells. The French Revolution and the subsequent Terror was also instrumental in the development of the Gothic novel; the horror of the guillotine and the threat so the status quo are all reflected in the genre.
Very true Pip. A lot of it was propaganda against 'the Papists' and there is an element of racism there, especially when you look at what was happening in Ireland. Those pesky Irish and American Fenians scared th bejeesus out of us poor English folk!http://nlg-steampunk.blogspot.co.uk/2...
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Please create a thread under buddy reads when you start. I am sure many of us will be interested in your discussion,
Mod
Deborah wrote: "One question for the group. I may be sending us down a rabbit hole. I'm moderating June as well. Do we want to do Udolpho as our June book? If the group is interested I can put it to a vote."Personally, no, but that's because I had such a hard time trying to finish it the first time round! It's definitely worth reading because of its landmark importance but I'm afraid I'm really not a fan of Ann Radcliffe's writing style. It's very much of its epoch and, I feel, hasn't stood the test of time well.
This is of course an entirely personal opinion. If the rest of the group decides to read it, it'll make my June to-read list lighter ;-)))
I agree Pip, it is a very 'old fashioned' read these days not least because what made Georgian and Victorian ladies swoon leaves us cold. Austen's satire shows it was losing its edge even then. We could perhaps read a later gothic to see how the genre had progressed. Frankenstein, Dorian Gay and Jekyll & Hyde come to mind...
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Deborah wrote: "Hmmm. A gothic month?"That could be interesting.
I spent much of the last two years wallowing in Gothic Lit - no particular reason, it just seemed to happen that way. I was probably too cheerful as a teenager, and I needed to catch up on the darkness and despair I'd missed out on ;-)
Of the novels that Madge suggests, I'd say Frankenstein and Dorian Gray (not "Gay" Madge - Freudian slip??!!) are the most discussion-worthy. J&H is another one which I feel hasn't stood the test of time, largely because the big shock/reveal in the story is what most modern readers know already. Again, though, it's a landmark work despite it being of dubitable literary merit.
Sorry for the typo Pip, can't remember if he wore a pink shirt:)Frankenstein also has an interesting background, by Mary Shelley, wife of the Romantic poet Percy Bysshe S and daughter of early feminist Mary Wollstonecraft.....
Pip wrote: "Lynn - gosh, yes, The Monk. It's very close to the bone, even by modern standards. It's difficult to imagine Genteel Jane and her contemporaries even getting hold of copies, let alone ..."You beat me to it - I was going to post this later. :-) Yes, the early Gothic novels were usually set in Italy, home of the Catholics, who were considered to be evil. The Monk has priests, monks, and nuns as key elements of the novel, and they are all bad.
Pip wrote: "Deborah wrote: "One question for the group. I may be sending us down a rabbit hole. I'm moderating June as well. Do we want to do Udolpho as our June book? If the group is interested I can put it to a vote."Personally, no,..."
I agree with Pip. In parts, it's a fun read, though it goes on forever. But the problem, I think, is that although it's almost endless, if memory serves there really isn't much there worth talking about over four or more weeks. It would be okay as a side read because I don't think we expect as rich a discussion in a side read, but for a main read, I wouldn't vote for it.
But I'm only one person, so if you think it should be put to a vote, go for it and let's see what the group thinks.
Mod
'In the Biographical Notice of the Author supplied for Northanger Abbey and Persuasion by Henry Austen, Jane’s favorite brother, we learn that she “was a warm and judicious admirer of landscape, both in nature and on canvas. At a very early age she was enamoured of Gilpin on the Picturesque; and she seldom changed her opinions either on books or men.”'In her descriptions of the excursions made by the young people in NA, Austen is referencing the very popular iĺlustrated books and prints of the 'picturesque' by William Gilpin. Whereas in Udolpho Radcliffe made use of the equally popular images of The Sublime in the Alps, Austen's mockery is also directed at more localised, English venues. For instance, Blaise 'Castle' is a fake, (view spoiler). Built in 1766 on the Blaise estate, it was modern and is not a real castle but a miniature one, in fact a garden feature typical of some of the artificial excesses in landscaping practiced under the banner of the Picturesque. The castle was only thirty years old when Northanger Abbey was written and Austen's readers would have been aware of the joke, especially those who lived in nearby Bath.(view spoiler) Ironically, this sort of garden feature was actually known as a ‘folly’. Here is something on Gilpin and the picturesque, referencing Austen. (There are several extracts from google books online about this but google does not allow the use of copy and paste for text, apparently for copyright reasons but please search 'austen picturesque'.)
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willia...
Here is the 'castle', which is in the grounds of Blaise Manor:
https://mikehardisty.wordpress.com/20...
And something about follies:
http://www.britainexpress.com/History...
More stuff to get your teeth into before we commence reading NA. The above is about Austen's use of The Picturesque and this article explains Austen's use of The Sublime in NA: 'Building on Edmund Burke’s definition of the sublime as an experience of terror followed by tranquility—a fear of personal harm or death followed by the realization that one is actually safe—both Radcliffe and Austen acknowledge the reality of death within their narratives through shared moments of communal, contemplative peace.'
There is more interesting stuff but beware SPOILERS. (The references to the ballroom scene are especially fascinating, as are those to female friendships.):
http://www.jasna.org/persuasions/on-l...
Some nice illustrations of Regency fashion, jewellery and furnishings:http://www.janeausten.co.uk/online-ma...
An edition with illustrations by C.E. Brock may be downloaded from MobileRead (links to the Kindle version, for other formats see bottom of the page). There is some info on Brock on Wikipedia
MadgeUK wrote: "Intriguing but WHO?""the first Earl of Morley, John Parker" (third paragraph) -- is that what you are asking, Madge? Or I probably don't understand your question?
Deborah wrote: "I've just started reading using the annotated edition. It is available in paperback. Just wanted to let you know it's a very nice edition."I looked at the library today and saw annotated versions of "Emma" and "Sense & Sensibility" -- gorgeous, gigantic, like coffee-table books. So I looked on AZ and there is one for "Northanger Abbey" too. Is that the one you have? Susan J. Wolfson, Harvard University Press?
www.goodreads.com/review/show/935473082
smile.amazon.com/Northanger-Abbey-An-...
Bonnie wrote: "Deborah wrote: "I've just started reading using the annotated edition. It is available in paperback. Just wanted to let you know it's a very nice edition."I looked at the library today and saw an..."
Those sound delightful (I have not seen them), but the ones I have been adding to my collection and enjoying are by David M. Shapard. These are quite reasonable in cost.
(Current Goodreads description here is not specific to the annotated edition.)P.S. For those interested in finding out more about this edition. Clicking on the image, then Amazon does take you through to this annotated version. I suspect that is true for the other sources. Maybe Kindle editions would work with Kindle Fire and such devices, but I chose the papercopy for all the wonderful illustrations in this -- even more so, I think, that in other Shapard annotated Austen novels, although all have at least some most useful line drawings.
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I looked at the library t..."
Lily that's the version I'm using. It's been excellent.
Mod
NA was the first Austen novel to achieve a finished form. It was sold to a publisher, who never published it; and later Austen requested her brother to purchase the rights from that publisher in order that it may go forward. More than 13 yrs had passed between completion date and publication.
While a parody, NA does contain some of Austen's experiences: daughter if a clergy, family fostered learning and literature, living in Bath,to name a few. The original title was Susan. It was completed in 1799 and revised in 1803.
The first half of NA parodies other novels, while the second half parodies the heroines' inner convictions and emotions.
Thanks Deborah, on Austen's inner convictions and emotions her brother Henry wrote that she “was a warm and judicious admirer of landscape, both in nature and on canvas. At a very early age she was enamoured of Gilpin on the Picturesque; and she seldom changed her opinions either on books or men.”'I have posted something about her use of the Picturesque in NA @ 34 above and of her use of the Sublime @ 35.
I was just wondering about Bath in modern times. Is it still a resort for the rich and high society?
Mod
Not really although it is still quite a smart town with lots of the same Regency buildings. It is now heavily dependent on tourism.http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_...
The Royal Crescent looks beautiful.
The Readers Review: Literature from 1714 to 1910
Books mentioned in this topic
What Matters in Jane Austen?: Twenty Crucial Puzzles Solved (other topics)Emma (other topics)
The Daemon Knows: Literary Greatness and the American Sublime (other topics)
What Matters in Jane Austen?: Twenty Crucial Puzzles Solved (other topics)
The Annotated Northanger Abbey (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
John Mullan (other topics)John Mullan (other topics)
David M. Shapard (other topics)
