SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion

Although I don't think the challenge can run indefinitely, I feel it can run it for 1 more year. So give your feedback. What is good? What could make it better?

Most importantly, give me ideas for sub-genres of fantasy and science fiction to feature in the main challenge and archetypes to feature in the monthly challenges

I like the idea of running this challenge for another year.

My suggestion would be to reshuffle the teams, so that everyone can choose where they want to be for the new year. Maybe new team names? A resetting of the score?

Fantasy Subgenres:
High (epic) fantasy
Low Fantasy
Sword and Sorcery
Urban Fantasy
Dark Fantasy
Grimdark
Historical Fantasy
Mythic Fantasy
Comic Fantasy
Cozy Fantasy
Paranormal Fantasy
Portal Fantasy
Science Fantasy
Gaslamp Fantasy
Magical Realism

Gaslamp? Is that like Steampunk?

Similar, yes. Both are based in 19th century worlds (Regency, Victorian, Edwardian), but Gaslamp is based on magic, and Steampunk is based on technology.

I just learned something new.

Netanella wrote: "My suggestion would be to reshuffle the teams, so that everyone can choose where they want to be for the new year. Maybe new team names?..."

We will definitely reset and have team sign-ups again.

maybe lessen the load (number of books a bit)? I'm a fast reader and even I have had difficulty reading all the possibilities in this challenge

24 books = main challenge
12 months X 4 books = monthly challenges
Summer = 6 books
October = 1 book
December = 3 Gift books
-------------------------------------
Total = 82 books

and that's not counting the Power Point books = 8 and maybe 9
with
Objects of Power = 3 X 2 books
-------------------------------------------------

82 + 14 = 96 books

I think I'll make 97

Melanie, if you–as the neutral party having to do all the math–are up for doing this again, I'm absolutely in. I've enjoyed this challenge so much and it has 100%+ leveled up my reading this past year. Life happened of course, and there's no way I'm completing the challenge this year, but this made it so I always had something in the queue vs. hemming/hawing and not finishing books. Thanks for all of your work on it.

Archetype ideas. These are broad ideas that could be developed into prompts. Any could be reworked to be protagonist or antagonist:
Class clown - character no one takes seriously but who ultimately proves themselves in the end; or proves that they're evil!
Hybrids (eh, there might be a better word) - characters who are biologically or technology blended or enhanced
Jack of All Trades - maybe a single character with expertise in many areas; or a group whose combined skills lead to success (the latter is a little like Fantasy's DnD party I guess)
(Un)Lucky Duck - characters who stumble into fortunate (or unfortunate) circumstances and have to work their way through it.
Hard Boiled - some kind of detective theme; there's a mystery or murder that needs to be solved; noir-themed story
Wicked Witch - a book that vilifies a woman or all women
Watson - the story POV is someone who isn't the main character (a little like sidekick but the story is more about a character other than the narrator)
Liar, Liar - includes characters who lie for a living; or someone is caught in a lie and that kicks off the story
Doctor, Doctor - (to the tune of the Robert Palmer song) - character that is a doctor; character receives a medical diagnosis that changes their life;

I'll come back when I think of more!

Military scifi and military fantasy are decent options for subgenres.

Archetype ideas (general thoughts, not as fleshed out as Kristin's):
Talking animal
Tentacle creature
(Greedy or friendly) Innkeeper
Hotshot (pilot or otherwise)
Musician/bard
Riddle Master
Fortune teller: one sub-category could be Cassandra - a character who predicts something correctly but isn't believe
Conspiracy theorist vs skeptic
Competitor - a character who competes in some kind of game/tournament
Last of Their Kind
Fairest of Them All
The Innumerable Horde vs One Great Man/the exceptional individual
Mercenary or assassin for hire

I'm so happy to hear that this challenge will run for another year! Honestly, it has been the most fun reading challenge I have ever participated in, not only in this group, but overall.

I was at times overwhelmed by the number of prompts, and it was tricky to do monthly challenges, because my reads rarely fit within a calendar month (due to management of library reservations and limited time), but I suppose it's a me problem and, all in all, it's good to have a lot of options. The goal is not to complete all the prompts but get more points than the other team, after all.

I whole-heartedly agree with Banshee. This reading game has been the most interesting one I've ever participated in. This last year was also my first time joining Booklovers Combat :) I loved pretty much every element of the challenge. I don't know what my last year would have been like without it, so I'm grateful it will be running for another year! Thank you to all the mods and curious readers who have made this reading year wondrous and joyous for me.

As for subgenres and archetypes, maybe ones that derive from the theme of an obsessive pursuit of knowledge? For instance, while dark academia comes to mind, I recognize that perhaps in its classic form it encompasses a bit more of fantasy than science fiction. But I'm sure there are many novels that slide the fantasy aspects over squarely to the science fiction world, e.g. magic systems more as a technology, or fantastical elements that are ultimately rooted more in engineering and math (here I think of the many Tchaikovsky works that mashup the fantasy and sci-fi elements). Lots of archetypes come to mind in this broad theme:

- The Inventor
- The Faustian Bargainer (this one drips of deliciousness)
- The Archivist (e.g. librarians, monks, scholars protecting forbidden knowledge)
- The Promethean Figure (i.e. bringing rare or unsanctioned knowledge to light)
- The Biopunker (so many different kinds of punk subgenres!)
- The Unrequited Researcher (i.e. scientists begging for funding. Just kidding! Ugh, I'm dying inside now).

I can't wait to start the 2026 Booklovers Combat!

Just dropping in to say that I would also love to join this challenge next year. Really enjoyed it this challenge and thank you for all the work that goes into it!

I found this challenge quite fun! I enjoyed matching my books with prompts where I could. I'm not a completionist though so I didn't do every challenge (maybe too many if I had tried? like 100 books to specific requirements).

As for sub genres of science fiction:

Hard Scifi
Space Opera
Apocalyptic/Post apocalypse
Alien Romance
Robot Fiction
Superheroes
Steam/Cyberpunk
Space Western
Mecha

And some archetypes:

Bounty Hunter
Alien Outsider (like spock?)
The Captain
Good AI/Evil AI
Kind Medic
Green skinned Space Babes
Newbie
Hacker
Token Adult (of a team of kids)
Villain Team Up
Zero to Hero

I am proofreading the 2026 Challenge and plan to have it posted before Christmas, so ... stay tuned!

I did lessen some of the monthly challenges, but I feel compelled to share an opinion I have about challenges in general. They can be inspiring and help boost your reading to a new level, but when the challenge becomes a chore, and it takes joy out of reading, it looses it's value. I strongly believe you don't have to complete the whole challenge (or any book challenge you choose to tackle) to find value in it.

In fact, I am in the habit of limiting myself from the onset. Like with this challenge, I prioritized the main challenges (because we have more time to plan and complete them) and made my monthly goal to get 10 monthly points before the year's end. Everything more than that is team under promise - over deliver.

I don't know if this adds perspective or not, but that's where I stand on challenges. And I really enjoy book challenges like this one.

I will join the combat for 2026, but I will be using it for two purposes.

1. Post books that fit that I stumble across in the course of my other reading in hopes that this helps my team.

2. Really look at the chosen books for any piece of the challenge that I want more of in my life.

It's all for enjoyment, and we don't have to wash the other team's cars if we lose.

Hoping to join in 2026!

Heyyyyy all! So, as you have likely heard, I will be taking over the Booklover's Challenge for next year (and beyond! (I hope you all read that in Buzz Lightyear's voice, as I intended.)) and as such, I've started working on 2027 planning and task stuff.

To be honest, I have a BAJILLION ideas and thoughts of my own, but I wanted to give you all an opportunity to chime in and offer feedback/suggestions/ "hopes, dreams, and wishes" as my boss used to say (edit: He still says it, I'm sure, he just isn't my boss anymore). LOL

Do you have a specific archetype in mind? Or trope? Task category? Want more task options? Want fewer task options? More bonuses? MORE SPREADSHEET?? (This I guarantee. :P)

The floor is yours!

Suggestion 1:

I would LOVE to have more evenly balanced teams.

Perhaps become this is a group called SF and F, ofc the team for Horror would be extra small. But it sucks in a combat reading competition, however you want to cut it.

Might I suggest that instead of having teams titled SF, F, and H, we name the teams after famous authors instead?

So, Team Asimov, Team Tolkien, Team King, etc.

Or we can name the teams after famous book series, and not make the distinctions between reading genres so obvious. This way, the distribution of players could be more even and the chances of actually winning the competition becomes a bit more fair.

Suggestion 2:

I would love to have reading prompts that blend the genres. Even though I know that the prompts allow for any type of book to fit, it would be nice to read for a fantasy-based prompt or a SF-based theme.

Suggestion 3:

More seasonal bonuses! More "just because" bonuses! For example, "because it's a Full Moon!" or, "because the French are Rioting!"

the first year had too many options; this year was better especially since we had all the other challenges as well

Netanella wrote: "This way, the distribution of players could be more even and the chances of actually winning the competition becomes a bit more fair."

I've been thinking about this, actually... What if the teams and genre tasks were separated? Each player on a team chooses the "genre" task list they'd like to complete, independently, but the teams are assigned rather than selected, so they are more evenly allocated.

IE: Team A might have 20 people, with 8 doing SF, 8 doing Fantasy, and 4 doing Horror, but the completed tasks, regardless of genre category are counted to Team A.

Team B might have 21 people, with 6 doing SF, 7 doing Fantasy, and 8 doing Horror...

Team C might have 21 people, with 6 doing SF, 12 doing Fantasy, and 3 doing Horror...

Pros:
- This would even out the teams
- Could result in more inter-team collabs?

Cons:
- Would it lose some of the competitive aspect?
- Would people be less likely to sign up to participate if they don't get to choose their team?
- Would people want to stick to the teams they've worked well with this (or even last) year? (Is that a consideration for anyone, or is it more task based?)
- Would it make scorekeeping/challenge management untenable? (I don't know yet! lol)

The other option is people select their teams, same as now, but everyone has more task options (additional category, or maybe mini-game, etc), or ability to crossover to another list of tasks after completion of their chosen list, so smaller but active teams are less likely to hit the wall when the tasks run out. This seems more doable.

I am NOT committing to either of these at the moment, but just throwing stuff at the wall to see what might stick. Feedback and thoughts welcome. :)

CBRetriever wrote: "the first year had too many options; this year was better especially since we had all the other challenges as well"

What do you mean by too many options? Too many tasks? Types of tasks?

I lean toward Melanie's stance on this - I want to provide enough options for people to really engage and have fun with the challenge, so my inclination is more options are better. There's no requirement to complete all tasks, unless you want to.

Looking at the sheet I kept, more than a few players across all teams hit the wall and can't continue participating, and I feel like that leads to people checking out more later in the year because there's less reason for them to remain engaged and active. :)

I've been at the wall for a while now. The only thing I can play are the monthly QPs and the character prompts.

On the plus side, I've been more active in my other groups! :)

I'm going to mirror Netanella and suggest more balanced teams. I don't have specific ideas on how to execute it, but I'm leaning towards the sets of prompts being more mixed. There are more people enjoying fantasy than other sub genres, so if we have another Team Fantasy third year in a row, it will end up being the largest again and have a bigger potential for winning.

I won't answer for CBRetriever, but will mention from my side that many people, when asked for a feedback at the end of the 2025 combat challenge, complained about too many tasks. We had among others 4 monthly prompts instead of 2.

I support more balanced teams, too. I do like being on a team, though, (as opposed to separating the teams and genre tasks) because I have found the separate team discussion threads to be my favorite part of the challenge. I don't usually look to see how we are doing competitively, aside from the weekly tallies.

I also like the idea of mixed genre prompts. Or at least genre lists that are more flexible / open. I felt like some of the sci-fi prompts this time were really sci-fi specific and harder to fill (like "space battle on the cover").

I would also prefer not to have too many options, if only because I like to be able to read other things, but I feel pressure to complete all of the tasks. This is more a me problem, though, since the only person putting this pressure on me is myself. :-)

Kaia wrote: "I would also prefer not to have too many options, if only because I like to be able to read other things"

But if they were more vague/nonspecific, you could read what you want and perhaps slot things in?

Becky wrote: "But if they were more vague/nonspecific, you could read what you want and perhaps slot things in."

I've always done that - for the Fantasy tasks, in my case, I used 4 SF and 2 Fic books

and I participated in the Horror and Science Fiction threads because the Fantasy one (my team) was basically dead most of the time.

what was interesting to me was that the Horror team (smallest) did the best with Quest Points compared to the Fantasy team (largest).

I think that is a product of the Team Horror being the underdog team in terms of size. We each had to participate strongly to even hope to compete with the bigger teams.

But it also could just be that we got lucky with a set of readers who were active and invested and had the stars align for Real Life (tm) to allow us free time to play, etc.

Becky wrote: "I think that is a product of the Team Horror being the underdog team in terms of size. We each had to participate strongly to even hope to compete with the bigger teams.

But it also could just be..."

LOL.... I'd prefer more tasks. I read pretty fast but there is not doubt I will be Team Horror again.

Becky wrote: "But if they were more vague/nonspecific, you could read what you want and perhaps slot things in?."

Yes, that's true. I'm not opposed to more tasks if that is what most people want, but I did feel like this year was a more manageable amount of tasks than last year.

totally agree - I didn't feel like it was too many books to read compared to last year

I didn't participate last year, but I just went back and looked at the thread, and it looks like it was a total of 118 tasks:

24 Main genre tasks
48 archetypes
24 BOTMs / Power points
Up to 12 Objects of Power (SF did 4, Fantasy 8 by my count & if I'm understanding the rules correctly)
3 December bonus tasks
1 Halloween bonus task
6 Summer bonus tasks

This year, there are 90 (so far, barring any additional bonuses).

I'm glad the combat is going to continue! Perhaps adding a horror themed BOTM? Or is that a step too far? It might provide more flexibility in contributing to quest points. The cover specific books were my least favourite, but I'd like more main tasks or ways to collect bonus points. Perhaps introducing other challenges such as read a series/duology/non-fiction related to... would be good, especially as I'm not planning to force myself through so many of the rigid set time and set BOTMs next year.

Re: covers - those are extra tricky. I much prefer the prompts that require something to be part of the plot OR on the cover. It gives more room to play with matching the book.

Re: series - I would be so happy, if it was somehow possible to include series reading. I really enjoyed the unofficial series challenge that Eva did two years in a row. I think a lot of us in SFF community have problems with too many started series. Maybe some series specific prompts? Or maybe having extra bonus points, if a book that fits any prompt is 2+ in a series?

I'd go for the 2nd or 3rd/final book in a series. What I have a problem with is DTB books as I've pretty much switched to ebooks.

actually, I'd go for a mod-picked classic (older) BOTM poll a couple of months a year.

Instead of forcing the teams to be more balanced numbers-wise, you could divide the points for each team by the number of active team members to determine the winning team.

Becky wrote: "I didn't participate last year, but I just went back and looked at the thread, and it looks like it was a total of 118 tasks:

24 Main genre tasks
48 archetypes
24 BOTMs / Power points
Up to 12 Ob..."

I liked the change this year from 4 archetypes a month to just 2. Makes it easier to read all the books for the challenge plus get to other books I want to read.

I like having more prompts to read, but I agree with Ellen that the time limited books stay at a reasonable size of 2 rather than 4. Any additional prompts could come from longer term bonuses or full year prompts, so we have more time, but also more prompts to read!

I love Banshee's suggestion to add series as part of the tasks somehow. This is something I tell myself every year to do - progress or finish more series! :)

I don't have too much care for winning/losing or uneven teams. I read more fantasy but stay on the SF team because the chat is fun and comfortable for me.

I am happy with more or less tasks and agree with others that pop-up bonus tasks throughout the year would be exciting and fun.

THANK YOU for continuing the challenge, Becky!!

Ines wrote: "Instead of forcing the teams to be more balanced numbers-wise, you could divide the points for each team by the number of active team members to determine the winning team."

This is definitely on the table, or some variation of point adjustment/offset/multiplier, etc.

ETA: On the table for consideration, not set in stone/committed. :)

CBRetriever wrote: "actually, I'd go for a mod-picked classic (older) BOTM poll a couple of months a year."

Can you clarify this? What do you mean? I select a previous BOTM as a bonus?

I think CBR was talking about the group polls to pick new BOTM, but I'd love to see some tasks or bonuses to read previous BOTM.

Kaa wrote: "I think CBR was talking about the group polls to pick new BOTM, but I'd love to see some tasks or bonuses to read previous BOTM."

I also like this... ties in the RATB challenge. :)

For the record, BLC has no input or say over BOTM polls or themes. That's a one-way street.

Becky wrote: "For the record, BLC has no input or say over BOTM polls or themes. That's a one-way street. ."

I know - I was replying to someone who suggested a Horror BOTM. However maybe a book from the 60s or 70s prompt could be interesting

CBRetriever wrote: "Becky wrote: "For the record, BLC has no input or say over BOTM polls or themes. That's a one-way street. ."

I know - I was replying to someone who suggested a Horror BOTM. However maybe a book fr..."

Gotcha - sorry, didn't catch that you were directly replying to Michelle's comment.

Classic genre task suggestion - noted. :)

I prefer the idea of having prompts that open up if someone completes all the regular prompts over increasing the number of full year prompts for everyone. I like the feeling of being able to complete a full set of prompts, but this year's prompts are about my limit. Opening up the prompt list from another group I think would be fun and could bring more engaged readers into a quieter discussion thread.

The gradual reveal of reading prompts is a great idea, Kaa!