Reading the 20th Century discussion

I wouldn't usually describe myself as a fantasy reader (separate from sci-fi, which I also wouldn't usually read) but realise that I've read and enjoyed many modern and contemporary novels that fit this category and which, often, use a fantasy setting to explore our contemporary issues with some arms-length distance.

Any thoughts on this genre and recommendations?

What prompted this topic is that I've been seeing The Rose Field by Philip Pullman everywhere and have just realised that it's the third part of a follow up trilogy (?) to his His Dark Materials series which I enjoyed, especially the last volume.

Has anyone read the new series (not that new now!): La Belle Sauvage / The Secret Commonwealth / The Rose Field?

Not me


But I raced through the HDM series in record time. Loved it when it came out

Roman Clodia wrote: "What prompted this topic is that I've been seeing The Rose Field by Philip Pullman everywhere and have just realised that it's the third part of a follow up trilogy (..."

I haven't read it yet, but I loved the original series!

The thing that immediately comes to mind for fantasy is The Buried Giant by Kazuo Ishiguro. I think it's a bit of a marmite book, which some love and others hate (or at least don't see the point of). But I am firmly in the love camp.

In the past, I would've also recommended The Ocean at the End of the Lane by Neil Gaiman, but it's hard to do that now, with the disturbing allegations against him.

I also found The Golden Key symbolically fascinating and complex, though that's more a fairy tale with a fantasy influence rather than vice versa.

Sci-fi would be easier if you had asked about that: The Sparrow was brilliant, I thought, and several others come to mind too! Fantasy has a shorter literary crossover list, even though I do enjoy fantasy on the whole.

Ah, I haven't actually read Gaiman at all, I had the idea it was all YA fairytale but have put Ocean on my list (if I stopped reading all authors with allegations against them and/or dodgy politics, I'd be left with the very short list, sadly).

I read The Sparrow years ago, and remember finding it interesting in the beginning then getting disappointed - can't remember why now in any detail.

I'm interested in what you say about the fantasy/literary crossover.

I want to reread The Bloody Chamber and Other Stories by Angela Carter. There is enough fairytale mixed with horror here to have us talking for a month, taking to make something of it.

I mostly have read the children and YA books of Neil Gaiman as I usually read his books for a 24-hour readathon I participate in, something to read as a special treat. But i am open to reading longer works. I would like to read more of his adult books, having only ever yet read Neverwhere

Thank you for remindjng me, Greg. I keep seeing The Buried Giant by Kazuo Ishiguro at a local,hoping for an opportunify/excuse for reading it.

Thank you Roman Clodia for this input. Now I can develop something stronger yet still polite enough to speak back to Cancel Culture when they try to get nasty with me!

I read His Dark Materials but have not looked at the next trilogy. I liked The Ocean at the End of the Lane quite a bit. Gaiman had a talent for reading his books aloud and I'd go with audio accompaniment or straight audio with him. I think his best work was with the comic series The Sandman - the Complete Series, Volumes 1-10. Some might not like the comic format but the series was unique and memorable. Lots of intertextual allusions for the literary fan.

I like all speculative fiction. Most of my fantasy reads are male dominated and would not interest many but there are some that you might like. Connie Willis comes to mind with her time travel genre mix of fantasy/science fiction/historical fiction. Catherynne M. Valente is an interesting author. I still have a bunch of Angela Carter to read.

Looks like Cynda and I cross posted on Carter.

More votes for Carter!

Sam wrote: "I read His Dark Materials but have not looked at the next trilogy. I liked The Ocean at the End of the Lane quite a bit. Gaiman had a talent for reading his books aloud and I'd go with audio accomp..."

The Sandman - the Complete Series, Volumes 1-10 is wonderful Sam!

Oh, I love The Bloody Chamber! I'm not sure I'd file it as fantasy, more feminist retellings of fairy tales, but genre is fuzzy and unfixed anyway.

Roman Clodia wrote: "Oh, I love The Bloody Chamber! I'm not sure I'd file it as fantasy, more feminist retellings of fairy tales, but genre is fuzzy and unfixed anyway."

Cynda and RC, I remember the thrill I felt at the end of "The Tiger's Bride" when I first read it in the early 1990s, that wonderful moment where she (view spoiler)[she becomes a beast:

"The reverberations of his purring rocked the foundations of the house, the walls began to dance.
. . . .
And each stroke of his tongue ripped off skin after successive skin, all the skins of a life in the world, and left behind a nascent patina of shining hairs. My earrings turned back to water and trickled down my shoulders; I shrugged the drops off my beautiful fur."

It's so exquisite, the petty baubles of society turning to mere water down her shoulders; it felt instinctively to me like a moment of her discovering her own human power, apart from any traditional feminine trappings. It felt as though she was discovering something inside herself that she hadn't known was there.

That was my favorite story in the book. I like Carter's fierceness and her baroque style; it was a perfect match for these retold fairy tales. (hide spoiler)]

I also like Ursula K. Le Guin's fantasy. She wrote many wonderful books of sci-fi, like The Dispossessed: An Ambiguous Utopia and The Left Hand of Darkness, but her fantasy is appealing in a very different way. It has a strongly mythological/anthropological feel for me, those books that begin with A Wizard of Earthsea.

Greg wrote: "I also like Ursula K. Le Guin's fantasy. She wrote many wonderful books of sci-fi, like The Dispossessed: An Ambiguous Utopia and The Left Hand of Darkness..."

I read Le Guin's The Word for World Is Forest for my IRL book group and disliked it intensely, I'm afraid. I'd also read her bland Lavinia and that famous short story that I found simplistic, The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas, so I guess she's not for me.

Greg wrote: "Cynda and RC, I remember t..."

So many wonderful images from Carter in those stories which are so lush and grotesque and fierce - that's the thing about Carter, her writing is just exhilarating whatever the mood she's conjuring up. Thank you for sharing that gorgeous quotation.

Roman Clodia wrote: "I read Le Guin's The Word for World Is Forest for my IRL book group and disliked it intensely, I'm afraid. I'd also read her bland Lavinia and that famous short story that I found simplistic, The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas, so I guess she's not for me"

It definitely could be that she is not for you, but you had some unlucky picks too.

The Word for World Is Forest is not one of her best, though I did like it. I'm curious what you disliked about it so much? It was pretty simple ideologically; is that what it was? And The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas is really just a short thought-experiment on the limits of utilitarianism. I like it, but it's not a masterpiece of philosophy by any means.

In general, I don't think Le Guin is a great short story writer; she needs a little more room I think. And I don't much care for her poetry; I read one book of her poetry and it didn't do much for me. Buffalo Gals and Other Animal Presences was fairly middling. But her novels I do like, some of them quite a lot.

I haven't read or heard of Lavinia before, and I don't hear people talking much about that one.

But maybe it's best to steer clear of her, based on how much you detested that one book. There are plenty of other authors to read after all!

Greg wrote: "Roman Clodia wrote: "I read Le Guin's The Word for World Is Forest for my IRL book group and disliked it intensely, I'm afraid. I'd also read her bland Lavinia and that famous short story that I fo..."

I think everyone's opinion of Le Guin readjusts after The Left Hand of Darkness, the novel I think decides her reputation.

Sam wrote: "I think everyone's opinion of Le Guin readjusts after The Left Hand of Darkness, the novel I think decides her reputation.""


Out of the several I've read, I think The Left Hand of Darkness and The Dispossessed: An Ambiguous Utopia were my favorites.

Have you read The Dispossessed: An Ambiguous Utopia, Sam? Curious what you thought of it?

I'm still looking forward to a potential reading of N.K. Jemisin. I had criticized the series when R.C. mentioned it once before but now seeing that I had no idea of her taste, I am dying to hear her thoughts, and that has sparked an interest in wanting to reread it myself.

I have so many problems with Le Guin's attitude to women, for example - I understand she was, allegedly, on a journey towards feminism, but she seems to have started from a pretty low bar. That said, I'm curious about Left Hand of Darkness but, as you say, so many other books to read.

Jemisin is someone I do want to get to, maybe over the holidays.

Roman Clodia wrote: "I have so many problems with Le Guin's attitude to women, for example - I understand she was, allegedly, on a journey towards feminism, but she seems to have started from a pretty low bar. That sai..."

The brilliance of Left Hand is how wonderfully she manages to blur gender and the perfect setting she chose for that experiment.

Just to note, once I read Left Hand, everything I had read and was to read by her took on a different perspective. I think I had previously thought her to simplistic and plain in her writing.

I read a ton of speculative fiction, though I'd say I'm fairly selective in what I read in the straight-up fantasy and hard-core scifi realms. I like authors who create alternative worlds or scenarios in order to explore a theme or idea much more than reading a contemporary author's idea of what the past may have been like, for example.

I agree that Left Hand of Darkness and The Dispossessed are LeGuin's finest works, and are the best novels to judge her by. They may be more in the science fiction bucket rather than the fantasy bucket, depending on if you are a lumper or a splitter.

I am in a minority of readers who doesn't really care for Jemisin. The gimmick in The Broken Earth series was off-putting to me and I didn't really click with either the Inheritance or Great Cities series.

I do really appreciate Octavia Butler's speculative fiction, again more in the scifi/spec fic realm than the fantasy realm.

Sticking to fantasy, I love Katherine Addison's The Goblin Emperor and Cemetaries of Amalo series, mostly because I adore the main characters and appreciate the world building. I also really like. Emily Tesh's The Greenhollow Duology: Silver in the Wood & Drowned Country and Clarke's Ring Shout.