Reading the 20th Century discussion

I recall we read A Ladder to the Sky a few years back but other than that I don't think John Boyne has come up again


Any John Boyne fans in the house?

I'm going to be reading The Heart's Invisible Furies soon and also have decided that my choice for my real world book group is going to be Water

The always reliable Mrs Nigeyb assures me both these titles are fantastic, and I recall there was a lot of love for A Ladder to the Sky


What are you favourites by him?

I liked his The Heart's Invisible Furies but was put off reading any more by him by the trivialising of the Holocaust in his The Boy in the Striped Pyjamas. Then came last summer's Polari Prize controversy:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/202...

On The Boy in the Striped Pyjamas, I haven't read it but this is a moving review on here from a Holocaust survivor:
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

I liked The Heart's Invisible Furies too (gave it 4 stars), but I was also put off by his behavior leading up to that Polari Prize controversy. I didn't even know that his other book trivialized the Holocaust.

Sorry, Nigey, don't mean to be negative - and Heart's Invisible Furies is moving and funny and very definitely worth reading.

Interesting. Thanks.


All of this is news to me. I had no idea he was considered a contentious figure.

Mrs B went to hear him speak at the Stratford literary festival late last year. She was very impressed by him, and she is also a fan of his work.

I’m still going to check out his work, and will bear in mind these insights when I do.

Of course you should read him for yourself and we can separate an author from his work.

Sadly, that was less possible with the Holocaust book especially after Boyne got into a public spat with the Auschwitz-Birkenau museum.

Heart's Furies is very moving, pretty sure I teared up!

The spat makes him seem like a bit of a idiot - thanks for filling me in on his controversies


I'll report back about the writing

Nigeyb wrote: "The spat makes him seem like a bit of a idiot"

Ha, there are some sources of authority - historical and moral in this case - that we simply accept. Going up against the Auschwitz museum on the subject of the Holocaust isn't a good look.

It seems very odd to me as from Heart's Furies he had a difficult life and the afterword to that was sensitive and affecting. To go from that to declaring himself a TERF is quite a journey.

Anyway, look forward to hearing more about your reading.

I've liked what I've read from him. No idea about the controversies to be honest.

I have read, and enjoyed, Crippen, The House of Special Purpose, This House is Haunted and I read The Boy in the Striped Pyjamas with my kids when they were younger. Oh, and of course, the one we read in the group.

Interested to hear what you think about the books you read next.

Thanks RC, thanks Susan


Susan, good to know you have enjoyed so much of his output

RC, I give the trans debate a wide berth. I can understand the positions of both sides of the divide and both make some valid points, but the extreme toxicity surrounding any discourse is just plain depressing. Anyone who voluntarily wades in must be mad.

Nigeyb wrote: "...but the extreme toxicity surrounding any discourse is just plain depressing"

Got to agree with you there, Nigey.

I’m underway with The Heart's Invisible Furies. I notice the reviews are through the roof.

Bittersweet to read Sid’s (RIP) five star review. Interestingly he also gave five stars to the Sean Duffy book I just finished - Rain Dogs

Anyway, early days, but enjoying what I’ve read so far of THIF

Glad you are enjoying it.

Sid is very much missed. It makes me sad when I come across one of his reviews.

Yes, me too

My thoughts on Boyne coincide with Greg's and R.C.'s although I haven't read any of his books. I saw the film version of The Boy with the Striped Pyjamas and hated it so much I've never wanted to try any. I think his worldview and mine are unlikely to coincide.

I get what you mean about differing perspectives on queer identity. But the issue about the Polari Prize was that it's meant to be trans-inclusive so shortlisting someone openly trans-exclusionary made no sense - regardless of individual sentiments. So I objected to his listing not solely as someone trans-inclusive - although I am - but also because it made a mockery of the Prize's supposed frameworks.

On a practical level, re leaving reviews up, etc. after we die, I wonder whether deleting the account means all their reviews are also deleted? Should something happen, I would prefer my reviews were deleted.

Susan wrote: "On a practical level, re leaving reviews up, etc. after we die, I wonder whether deleting the account means all their reviews are also deleted? Should something happen, I would prefer my reviews we..."

Maybe it works like comments after an account is deleted where the comments are still there but they are listed as "deleted member" so there is no way to identify who posted them?

There are some friends of mine on here that passed away, and I actually like to see their past reviews and comments. I see them as a sort of memorial to who they were, I guess. I still miss some of them, and I like that a memory of them is still here.

Sid talked about this when he was in the hospice and he decided that he wanted all his reviews left under this name (not his own but a reference to his love of physics and science history) - a kind of legacy, if you will.

Like Greg, I also find it comforting to come across his reviews which are full of his voice, his generosity and, often, his wit.

I've been thinking of him recently as he loved Patti Smith and introduced me to her music.

I just don't want to be lingering online, like a ghostly presence!

Susan wrote:


"I would prefer my reviews were deleted"

I suspect you'd have to ask someone to do that on your behalf as I'd be amazed if there's any way of getting Goodreads to do it for you.

I'd never considered whether I want to retain a digital presence after I've died. Something to ponder. Thanks.

I'm now a few chapters in to The Heart's Invisible Furies. I'm loving it. A splendid novel so far... funny, poignant, convincing... easy to see why it has so many five star reviews

I simply can't understand how Boyne trivialised the Holocaust in TBiSP. I have read it and it's a very moving account. It's written in a different style but you do feel the horror and dehumanizing.

It was for children. I don't think it was trivialising, but a way of making it understandable for a young audience.

The only relevant thing about any author is whether or not you enjoy their writing. I am glad you are enjoying the title you are reading, Nigeyb.

Talking about age I am going to see Ian McEwan interview Julian Barnes next week. Barnes, now 80, has published what he says will be his last novel. Of course, I understand his decision, but it feels a little sad.

According to Wikipedia...


The Boy in the Striped Pyjamas was published in 2006. The book has sold over seven million copies worldwide.[16] A Heyday/Miramax film adaptation, The Boy in the Striped Pyjamas, was shot in Budapest in mid-2007 and released in late 2008. Directed by Mark Herman, the film stars Asa Butterfield, David Thewlis, Vera Farmiga, Rupert Friend and Sheila Hancock. In January 2020, the book was cited by the Auschwitz-Birkenau State Museum, in a set of back and forth tweets between the museum and the author, as a book that should be avoided by those promoting accurate understanding of the Holocaust. In response, Boyne suggested that the museum's criticism contained inaccurate information.


https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/bo...

https://www.theguardian.com/books/202...


The Auschwitz Memorial Research Centre also criticised The Tattooist of Auschwitz by Heather Morris...

https://www.theguardian.com/books/201...



Interestingly John Boyne is also very critical of a lot of holocaust literature...

https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/bo...

He tweeted "I can't help but feel that by constantly using the same three words, & then inserting a noun, publishers and writers are effectively building a genre that sells well, when in reality the subject matter, & their titles, should be treated with a little more thought & consideration"

The tweet was accompanied by a picture of seven books: The Mistress of Auschwitz, The Brothers of Auschwitz, The Child of Auschwitz, The Sisters of Auschwitz, The Tattooist of Auschwitz, The Librarian of Auschwitz and The Saboteur of Auschwitz.

I think it's unfair to compare it to an adult novel. I thought The Book Thief was a great children's book about the holocaust, but The Boy in the Striped Pyjamas was for a younger audience.

Sounds about right Susan

Susan wrote: "I think it's unfair to compare it to an adult novel."

I agree, but I'm not sure that's what the Auschwitz museum was doing. They are researchers, historians, curators and educators who run specialised programmes for children, students and teachers as part of their daily work. This includes material for the emotional preparation of children for what they will learn.

There's definitely a balance to be struck between raw historical accuracy and not traumatising and terrifying children. But the museum is both expert and specialised in this and conduct their education programmes with extreme sensitivity.

Having to unwind inaccurate perceptions that people have absorbed from popular fiction is a pain for anyone teaching - but here the stakes are particularly high.

In any case, we are all adults and can make up our own minds on where we stand. I think I'd have been more forgiving if Boyne had held up his hand with grace and honesty - but to attack the Auschwitz museum as a form of self-defence just seems extremely misguided to me.

Halfway through The Heart's Invisible Furies and loving it. What a rip roaring read.

Elements of it remind me of The Bee Sting by Paul Murray which was one of my favourite novels that I read last year. Another epic Irish family story

Back to The Heart's Invisible Furies, the section with Brendan Behan was wonderful. I love the way we’re getting the story of Ireland from the 1940s to today through the eyes of one ordinary man.

Good to hear, Nigeyb. I know you are a Backlisted listener. Lots of changes to the show coming up so have a look at the Backlisted show if you get a moment.

Hi, what's this Backlisted show?

It's a podcast, Neer.

https://www.backlisted.fm/

It focuses on older, rather than new, books.

Thanks Susan, yes I just saw your post on the Backlisted discussion, and have replied over there


Neer wrote: "Hi, what's this Backlisted show?"

A podcast...

https://www.backlisted.fm/

Thanks Susan and Nigeyb. I had a look and it seems pretty interesting. I think I shall start with Wuthering Heights.

Sounds like a plan, Neer. Rose and I are going to read the Booker choice for March (see on Backlisted thread if you or anyone else wishes to join in).

About 60% through through The Heart's Invisible Furies now and still loving it. John Boyne is a hell of a storyteller. It's fair to say that its plot occasionally relies on unlikely coincidences however this is made up for by the rich characters, emotional depth, and sharp social commentary.

It's a powerful and indignant history of Catholic-informed prejudices resulting in stolen lives and social contempt as minorities and unmarried pregnant women are forced to endure contempt and ostracisation.

The main focus is on Ireland's social transformation and the struggles of its gay citizens from the 1940s onwards.

That all sounds very serious but it's by turns both hilarious and heartbreaking.

Nigeyb wrote: "About 60% through through The Heart's Invisible Furies now and still loving it. John Boyne is a hell of a storyteller. It's fair to say that its plot occasionally relies on unlikely..."



I’ve finally finished The Heart's Invisible Furies


My first five star read of 2026...

https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

5/5



A superb history of post war Ireland aligned to an engrossing tale of an adopted boy’s life through the decades and into the 21st century. It’s memorable, moving, funny, dramatic, and tragic.

Glad you enjoyed it, Nigey - I agree about the number of unlikely coincidences but I forgave them.

Great review, Nigeyb. Glad you enjoyed it.

Thanks



I'll be reading Water (2023) next


The first thing Vanessa Carvin does when she arrives on the island is change her name. To the locals, she is Willow Hale, a solitary outsider escaping Dublin to live a hermetic existence in a small cottage, not a notorious woman on the run from her past.

But scandals follow like hunting dogs. And she has some questions of her own to answer. If her ex-husband is really the monster everyone says he is, then how complicit was she in his crimes?

Escaping her old life might seem like a good idea but the choices she has made throughout her marriage have consequences. Here, on the island, Vanessa must reflect on what she did - and did not do. Only then can she discover whether she is worthy of finding peace at all.

Air is a kindle deal of the day today, Nigeyb. It is the fourth in the elements series, but if you are enjoying Water, you might want to pick it up? I find I now have all 4, probably through kindle deals.

Thanks Susan - I appreciate it


Water is indeed fab and I am loving it. I might finish it this very day

I noticed all the Elements novellas are available in one volume and my library has a copy which I hope to borrow this very day, so I will be reading Air soon

Good news. Enjoy :)

I find myself really intrigued by these four element-themed books Nigeyb. They look short, almost novella-length, and I see that many of my Goodreads friends did like them.

And for good reason Greg. I'm halfway through the first one and it is fabulous. I'm sure the others will follow suit

Susan wrote: "Sounds like a plan, Neer. Rose and I are going to read the Booker choice for March (see on Backlisted thread if you or anyone else wishes to join in)."

Susan, Wuthering Heights podcast turned out to be wonderful. In fact, it made me want to read the novel again. I was intrigued by their views on Nellie Dean. Also, one of them mentioned Isabella as their favourite character. I wished they had discussed that but it was kind of brushed off. Looking forward to other discussions.

Water (The Elements #1) (2023) is another John Boyne storytelling masterclass.

A mere 166 pages, Water packs a hell of a punch. It’s a quiet, sharp, and deeply uncomfortable look at complicity and the aftermath of a life-shattering scandal...

https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

4/5

I’m currently rereading Water, having chosen it for my book group. It’s every bit as good second time around