Books I Want To Talk About discussion

Please discuss the second part of Eat Pray Love here. Any thoughts about Elizabeth's journey in India?

I enjoyed this section, but in a different way. I'm a bit like LG's friend who says something like, "I so wish I wanted to do that!" During my divorce recovery period, I did do a lot of praying for the first time, and a little spacing out while staring at a candle, but nothing really like Liz talks about. I'm sure the spiritual experiences she had are things you just have to do in order to understand. I admire her for trying to explain. I'll be interested to see what sort of processing of things she does in Indonesia.

One thing that touched me was the part about "soul-mates." Richard says, "People think a soul mate is your perfect fit, and that's what everone wants. But a true soul mate is a mirror, the person who shows you everything that's holding you back, the person who brings you to your own attention so you can change your life...they tear down your walls and smack you awake...they come into your life just to reveal another layer of yourself to you, and then they leave."

Reading that helped me to re-frame a relationship with a friend that started about a year ago. I was working in a terribly busy private practice and always feeling like I was drowning and failing and needing to get out, but feeling too exhausted and afraid to really do anything about it. I had been hosting medical students in my office about once a year, and one was with me through the month of May. He was fun, and we seemed to hit it off right away--similar senses of humor, sensitivity to patients' needs, etc. It was nice for me to have a colleague of sorts to hang out with all day, talk medicine with, etc. We spent a lot of hours together, and I think that I let my guard down a bit because I knew he was gay (not a threat to my husband) and I got quite attached to him. He really complimented my teaching and encouraged me to do more of it. Anyway, when he left, it really brought my negative emotions about my job to a crisis level--I was miserable. I cried all the way to and from work every day. But his encouragement and the fun we had together helped me summon up the courage, not only to look for a new job, but specifically to find a teaching position. Anyway, I didn't get the first job I interviewed for. Nor the next. Things did not look at all promising, and I descended to one of the worst places in my life emotionally. (Even though to see it in print makes the crisis seem a bit silly.) My friends were perfectly willing to listen to and talk with me about feeling wounded because of not getting the jobs, and about turning 40, but nobody wanted to talk about how much my student meant to me and how much I missed him. Even my therapist, who seemed the most understanding, wanted to frame it all in terms of my isolation and loneliness at work, rather than acknowledge that there was any real mutual attachment or connection between us. Anyway, we continued to meet for coffee from time-to-time and support each other a little through my quest for a job and his career decisions and search for the right residency match. Then, in February I got a job offer (which I accepted), and in March (or was it April--I forget), he matched to his first choice residency program. Then suddenly--and I think this is my whole point here--I felt like something was resolved. I recognized that he would be moving away and, like so many other people I've met and connected with in life, I would be unlikely to see him much, if at all, again. And I felt okay about that.

In the past, when things like this happen, I tended to frame them, like a good Calvinist Protestant, in terms of Divine Providence--God has a plan for me. And that interpretation still works for me. But the soul-mate thing is an interesting way to look at it, too. I've taught a fair number of students, and I have enjoyed all of them and thought they were all great people and great students and have appreciated the individual strengths of each. But, perhaps there really was that one soulmate...

Personally, I think that, if I am to accept the idea of a soulmate, I think we're allowed more than one. Probably as many as we need.

Was Richard Liz's soulmate? Did he have the hots for her? Do you think they ever met up again? Do they keep in touch?

Okay, so here are other points of discussion. Do you think Liz really had those spiritual experiences, or was she just making them up for her book? Is there a psychological or psychiatric explanation that could explain what she experienced--if she did indeed experience it? Have any of you had similar experiences? How did she (she actually suggests maybe she didn't) distinguish being asleep from a spiritual experience? How would we? Is there any way I could have used the word experience more often in this paragraph?

Don't get me wrong. I am a person of faith, and I do have times when I feel I am more in God's presence than at other times. And, I appreciated and endorse the metaphor of many rivers leading to the same ocean. But there is a part of me that just isn't sure about these out-of-body kinds of experiences. And, as I said in my previous posting, I'm not sure that it is something I'd want to pursue.

Alas, I always need to fall back on the ideas that faith is called faith because we can't explain it. And that God's ways are not comprehensible to humans.

I did think it was neat to read about the non-stereotypical visitors to the Ashram.

Thanks for reading my ramblings! I look forward to reading some thoughtful responses!

Robbie, Oprah once did an episode about the book and invited Liz Gilbert to talk about it. "Richard from Texas" also showed up on the show, so I guess they did keep in touch.

Thanks for sharing your story, by the way. I like your idea that we can have as many soulmates as we need, because there can be so many influential people in our lives. In that respect, I think Richard can be considered one of Liz's soulmates.

I've never had a similar spiritual experience like her, so I guess I'm also a bit skeptical about it. But I also don't want to rule it out altogether either because, like you said Robbie, faith is all about believing in the unexplained. And when Oprah asked Richard during the show whether he ever had that kind of out of body experience like Liz did, he said no, that never happened during his meditations. But it was OK because something that was right for someone may not be right for other people.

Did Richard have the hots for her? I don't know. Probably. But their relationship remained platonic. There have also been comments that Liz seemed very preoccupied with male attention in this book, Richard being one of them. What do you think about this?

Well, to be honest, I'm somewhat relieved that Richard didn't have that kind of experience. I'm not sure why I'm relieved--he just gave the impression that he was so wise and advanced in Yoga. I suppose, though, that one can be wise without being a champion at yoga meditation.

Interesting point about Liz being preoccupied with male attention. I didn't pick that up personally. She did have several girlfriends that either visited her or she met on her travels. Pop psychology might suggest being preoccupied with male attention has something to do with wanting to make up for attention she didn't get from her father while growing up. Maybe it was from being celebate all that time? Or, maybe she just feels comfortable around men. Then there's the obvious that she had really never spent her adult life without a man at her side, so she was looking for someone to lean on in that way, whether or not she was aware of that herself. How much of it could have been due to the roles of women in the various societies? They may have been too busy to have free time to spend with her.

Robbie - think Liz's spiritual experiences were real, although there may well be psychological and/or physiological components. Some Native American and even Christian traditions have vision quests, where you go into the wilderness and literally starve yourself into having a vision. Going without food for a long enough period will cause hallucinations - but those on the vision quest seem able to direct them into meaningful visions. I don't think we can separate the physical, psychological and the spiritual. While those big, out-of-body experiences are splashy, I think that, for Liz, and for all of us, the smaller spiritual moments have the most real impact. I think "Go back to bed, Liz," and maybe the little ceremony on the roof that allowed her to let go of her divorce, were the most meaningful experiences for her, the first because she realized that God was there, the second because she realized that, with God's help, she could create a ritual that allowed her to put that pain in a spiritual context, and live comfortably with it. Most of my epiphanies are on the small side - I call it seeing the mundane through the eyes of the divine. Little glimpses, as it were, into the Kingdom of Heaven.

Robbie- I like your story of your student maybe being one of your soul-mates. I believe that most of us have similar stories with people who are so close to us for a time that they're like a second skin, and then they just slip out of your life the same way they slipped in...not leaving a gaping hole but instead a new understanding of yourself and others.

I really like that definition of soul-mate.