Deepthought Revivalists discussion

There is one question that I can never seem to get an answer to.
What is right, and what is wrong? And who gets to decide which is which?

The answer to the last question is...you, at least that's what I think. What's right and what's wrong is what you decide it is, and if people don't like it and hate you for it, then they are just being stupid. Don't let other people influence what you think is right and what's wrong. So, to be short and summarize it, be who you are and follow your standards. Make your own choices, right or wrong, and don't care if other people don't like the decision. Sometimes doing something right can be hurtful to certain people, but that usually heals. Most always doing something wrong will lead to many friends and family being hurt. BE WHO YOU ARE and decide what is right and what is wrong to you.

Although Logan I applaud, and take subjectively a lot of the things that you state in your post. I think that Kenzie is trying to draw out our musings concerning the objective nature of right and wrong.

Well, basically, yeah. I mean there are a few things that are wrong. Like killing someone. Or deliberately trying to seriously hurt someone (physically or perceptually). Though, I think that most things can be put into a grey category. Like say you needed to lie to someone, because lying would protect them better than the truth. Or thievery. Say your family was going to starve to death. So you stole some food. Is that really wrong? Going to extreme measures to help someone that you love?

Nature 101

it will all play itself out
as it needs to
I needn't worry or think about
what might happen

translation for
control freaks:
life will haved
passed you by
by the time
your mind
can manage it

I don't actually think that we need a translation, but thanks anyway.

I wasn't suggesting that you did. It's a poem I wrote a long time ago. I thought it might be applicable. I actually had a long post in response and when I went to preview it I clicked and lost it, so I just posted the poem, which was probably a bad idea.

I want to say first that I REALLY appreciate discussions like this, and I know what it feels like to try to determine right from wrong... especially when people are in your face with their opinions. I don't know what the specifics are, of course. I totally appreciate Logan's fierce defense of individualism and self-hood. I agree with what she says. I also see that you could be looking for something more objective.

For myself, I don't think there IS an objective right and wrong. Part of what I was going to post before is a bit about a movie called KPAX when the Kevin Spacey character (an alien or something) comments quite plainly that "every being in the universe knows the difference between right and wrong". I think he is absolutely correct, and the way we all know it is by how if FEELS... sometimes only after we have done whatever... the icky feeling sets in.

The poem I posted, to me, calls attention to how examining with our heads is somewhat ludicrous because we are either subjecting ourselves to an idea or philosophy which cannot be but narrower than our hearts, or (post action) analyzing what we have done, which we can never really truly isolate. In the end, it all flows like it flows and we remember to practice forgiveness for both ourselves and others.

My attack on control freaks is justified always as there are those who fear the heart, the unconscious, the spontaneous and throw their wrenches in at every turn rather than look more deeply at themselves. They believe that everyone else is the source of their problems and so if they could only dictate to other people what to do, then all would be solved. This behavior is often what makes it difficult for folks like ourselves to honor our hearts, because spontaneous expression and joy is what they want most and will never have if they continue as they are.

I meant no disregard by the poem. I even thought afterward that it may have been stupid to post it as I did with nothing else. And yet I dove in, right or wrong... I just did it... and I survived.

Posting the poem could also fall under choosing right from wrong. Was posting the poem right? Or was it wrong? Like I've already mentioned, decide for yourself and who cares what people think. Just go with the flow and if you've made a mistake you can fix it and then move on. I mean, we live in a world filled with people who are judged on their actions. People who commit crimes such as stealing and murder are placed in jail. They've made the wrong choices, but it can be helped. Sure they can still try and fix the problem by attempting to become a better person, but in order for an attempt to be successful they must want to be willing to change for the better. It's hard to explain the meanings of what's right and what's wrong or who chooses what's right and what's wrong. In the end it's a hard choice to make, but everyone is capable of performing right and wrong actions.

Hey, this is goodreads so I'm actually going to refer to a book here, and that is the wisdom of Lao Tsu and Chuang Tsu. They are both considered Taoist mystics. There are many translations. I have a pretty good one. It's one of those old hardcovers like a Shakespeare's classic. Chuang Tsu is one of my favorites. One of his parables, I cannot remember the story, points out how someone once decided something was good and right, and made a public stink about it. This makes me think of the star system in Hollwood. Yuck. Anyway, everything is built around opposites... if you call attention to good then there has to be an evil... and so on. It is all societal mental bull. Actions are actions and that is it. Right and wrong are for historians. It's done. There was no right. There was no wrong. Stuff just happens. People just do things. Just try and find the cause of a thing. It's impossible. So many factors went into it. No-one acts alone. We are all in this together and there is no right and no wrong. It just IS.