Urban Fantasy discussion

Is it just me or does it really feel like there's no original idea in the urban fantasy genre anymore? All the new UF books seem to have the same carbon copy of a heroine and the same carbon copy of a plot. Lately, when I read UF books I'm all "hey, I read that in ... already", they leave me deeply unsatisfied.

So, can you rec me an UF series that made you think "hey, I haven't seen that done before!" or "hey, how original!" please? Books that really stood out for you because of... something in them?

My recs?
A Rush of Wings by Adrian Phoenix - what set it apart for me was the fact that it felt more like a thriller than your usual UF.
The Iron Hunt by Marjorie M. Liu - this is your regular UF but the unusual part, at least for me, was that Kiss' partner Grant wasn't a fighter, though her equal, he was more of a healer.

What was your "WOW!" book and why?

I'll have to think on this one for some suggestions, but I don't agree about there being no original ideas. Perhaps the premise is similar, but the way the author's create the world, the characters, the plot, all seem refreshingly new to me.

See, it's not for me. It seems all the same. The heroine is a werewolf/vampire/incubus/psychic/mix-breed. Because of ABC she's set apart from her family/clan/sidhe. She has a tortured past. An XYZ monster appears and starts killing/wants to cause the end of the world/etc. Because of her special abilities, the heroine is the only one who can kill it. She meets a man who fights at her side, she falls for the man. Some parts are slightly different but overall, it's the same plot, just lather, rinse, repeat.

That's why I'm asking for books that still give you the "WOW!" moment. Even if it's just one thing, something that's different, somehow. Be it that the heroine is, I don't know, lesbian. Just something that you can put your finger on and say "That's it!", that's what makes the book unique!

I'm not sure if I'm explaining it right *sigh*

Have you read Ann Aguirre? Her books are VERY unique... she currently has three series:

1. Grimspace, Wanderlust, Doubleblind, etc. (Sci-Fi)

2. Blue Diablo (UF)

3. Skin Game (PNR/UF... under name "Ava Gray")

KatiKat,
>That's why I'm asking for books that still give you >the "WOW!" moment.

I'm thrilled that I've read a several bearing this description lately.
1. Graceling by Kirstin Cashore It's not UF but fanatsy. Katsa is an 18 year old who has been used by her uncle the king in a most horrible way (not sexual) since she was 8 years old. Because of this abuse she cannot trust, because the people of this world hold her at a distance, she trusts no one.Graceling
2. A Kiss Before the Apocalypse by Thomas E. Sniegoski This is UF, but it takes place in a Chicago that is familiar to readers of Hammet and Chandler. It's colored and charactered with loss, regret and aching pain.A Kiss Before the Apocalypse
3. New Amsterdam by Elizabeth Bear Is not UF but alternate history, mannerpunk, or some other mixed category. It's four short stories set in a New York that is still part of the British Empire, at the turn of the last century, with a vempire and a Detective Investigator who uses magic to solve crimes.New Amsterdam
4. The Enchantment Emporium by Tanya Huff Takes place in Calgary, AB in the world of the Keeper series -- so this is UF-- that I have yet to read, that is laugh out loud funny, very sweet and a lot of fun!The Enchantment Emporium
5. Impossible by Nancy Werlin The characters have no idea they are living in an UF world until 1/3 of the way through the book. Werlin, who does not typically write paranormal, wrote this as an answer/ antidote to the perfect vampire lovers in so many YA novels. It's terrific. Impossible

Julia wrote: "1. Graceling by Kirstin Cashore It's not UF but fanatsy. Katsa is an 18 year old who has been used by her uncle the king in a most horrible way (not sexual) since she was 8 years old. Because of this abuse she cannot trust, because the people of this world hold her at a distance, she trusts no one.Graceling..."

I forgot about Kristin Cashore's books... Graceling and the newest book, Fire. I second these recommendations! These books are awesome! :)

Theresa wrote, Have you read Ann Aguirre? Her books are VERY unique... she currently has three series:

1. Grimspace, Wanderlust, Doubleblind, etc. (Sci-Fi)

I would agree with this series, I just read them all and they are different from what is out there.

I have to 2nd Julia's recommendation of . I absolutely loved this book! I read it back in the spring and have recommended it to everyone I know! I also think Alyson Noel's IMMORTALS books are a little different than most things out there.

KatiKat wrote: "Is it just me or does it really feel like there's no original idea in the urban fantasy genre anymore? All the new UF books seem to have the same carbon copy of a heroine and the same carbon copy o..."


One of my favorites is a new author, Devon Monk and she does the Allie Beckstrom Series.
Magic to the Bone, Magic In the Blood, Magic in the Shadows

She has set a new kind of magic system in Portland, OR. Here is a blurb from Amazon.

Devon monk is casting a spell on the fantasy world...

Using magic means it uses you back, and every spell exacts a price from its user. But some people get out of it by Offloading the cost of magic onto an innocent. Then it’s Allison Beckstrom’s job to identify the spell-caster. Allie would rather live a hand-to-mouth existence than accept the family fortune—and the strings that come with it. But when she finds a boy dying from a magical Offload that has her father’s signature all over it, Allie is thrown back into his world of black magic. And the forces she calls on in her quest for the truth will make her capable of things that some will do anything to control...

They are awesome! The way she has set up her magic use/cost is unique. Every book gets more complex and interesting!

Hmmm...going to have to go read them again this weekend. :o)

Some good reads that come to mind as being different than the average UF for one reason or another are:
Gil's All Fright Diner by A. Lee Martinez
Rosemary and Rue by Seanan McGuire
Thirteen Orphans by Jane Lindskold
The Scent of Shadows The First Sign of the Zodiac by Vicki Pettersson
Dancing With Werewolves by Carole Nelson Douglas

KatiKat, I mostly agree with you, except aside from the kick-butt heroine trope, I would say another popular clone is the magical PI trope. For instance, several people listed the Remy Chandler series as original, and while it's different from what you listed, I see it as mostly another Dresden clone, except with an angel instead of a wizard.

Of course, you get this with any genre, and the 'good ones' are the ones who use the tropes and archetypes, but make it original or at least fun in some way - usually through interesting characters or a quirk of the plotline.

That said, I don't really read a whole lot of UF precisely because it does seem like there are these two, and maybe a third, general plotline floating around, and I'm loathe to start a new series which sounds like such a rehashing of something I've already read.

I'm with you on the seemingly invincible, bad attitude, kick butt heroine trope of urban fantasy. I think I like the ones that have male leads or more gentle, less sure of themselves heroines more. I haven't gotten tired of the magical PI trope yet. It's because I love the occult detective genre. It's not so much about, 'watch me kick butt.' It's more of a third person or first person observer narration, so the heroine/hero voice is a little less disruptive and grating. Just my thoughts, anyway.


I like Simon Green's Nightside books because he's not afraid to go really horrific and show some really dark aspects, but with a sense of humor. It's very noir. In one moment you're shocked to bits, and the next, you're chuckling.

I also think Cal Landros series by Rob Thurman is excellent. I think some readers have trouble getting into it. I loved the first book from the first page.

Danielle "The Book Huntress" wrote: "I'm with you on the seemingly invincible, bad attitude, kick butt heroine trope of urban fantasy. I think I like the ones that have male leads or more gentle, less sure of themselves heroines more...."

I would also like to try out David Mack's "The Calling" - GR's ratings aren't good but Amazon reviews seem to love the book. And it has a MALE hero! I'm so tired of the kick-ass superheroines with really bad attitude. They just grate sometimes.

Hey, KatiKat, I bought that one. PM me offlist and we can talk about some that I've found if you like occult detective novels.

Danielle in message #12:
>I'm with you on the seemingly invincible, bad attitude, kick butt heroine trope of urban fantasy.

But that's NOT Sookie Stackhouse, Vickie Nelson, Mercedes Thompson, Diana Tregrade, Anita Blake (early books, I gave up on her some books ago) or other characters in urban fantasy I enjoy. I'll give you that it's Buffy and Faith and Echo and River Tam and Zoe. That makes it a Joss Whedon trope. Many of these women predate Buffy.

As for the male- dominated urban fantasy, I like Remy Chandler, because it's not just his name and his dog's that remind me of Chandler and Marlowe's fiction. I like Harry Dresden because he doesn't see himself as a hero or a good man, but he so obviously is.

I like the 'verse Kelley Armstong has created with a different narrator every two or so books. I don't like all the narrators equally, and that's okay, I still keep reading. I also like her series of YA novels in the same 'verse.

Then there's Charles de Lint's, Emma Bull's and Terri Windling's urban fantasy which is a pretty much butt- kicking free zone.
Nothing original? Try:
Someplace to be Flying, Trader, Moonlight and Vines, The Mystery of Grace.
War for the Oaks, Territory, Finder.
The Wood Wife, The Armless Maiden. [image error]

Thanks for all the fine suggestions, Julia. I would like to read most or all of those.

Yes, some awesome sounding suggestions! I want to say thank you as well even though I didnt make the request :)

I'd like to point out that urban fantasy has two roots. One is from the romance novel world. The other is from science fiction.

Pretty obviously KatiKat is tired of the romance side of urban fantasy and needs to discover the science fiction side. Some of which has been around for a couple of decades or more.

But as Julia pointed out a lot of the best known female protagonists don't fit the whole "kick-ass" description. And even when they do, more or less, I'm frequently still blown away by the universe they have created.

I don't mind the romance side. If it's ~somehow~ different. And I don't mind when the heroine does kick butt when it's ~somehow~ different. But as I said in one of the previous posts - 99% of the heroines are built according to the same model: she's a supernatural creature with a tortured past, estranged from her family, she's the only one who can kill a certain beast/protect someone and she meets a totally kick ass, gorgeous man who's her fighting equal and together they kick butt. You can apply anything to this model from Anita Blake over Mercy Thompson and Jaz Parks to Jill Kismet etc. etc. etc.

If you know of any heroine and/or plot that don't fit that, tell me please. I'm not harping about the romance - Adrian Phoenix and Marjorie M. Liu's books are heavily romance influenced too - I'm miffed that the authors seem to use the same guide lines without bringing something of their own to it besides little details here and there.

I can totally see where you're coming from KatiKat. I do believe there are a lot of stories out there to be explored, and I'm looking into the various urban fantasy writers from the fantasy tradition.

OK, Charlaine Harris writes heroines who are damaged in some ways. She wrote cozy mysteries with a damaged heroine. Her heroines grow during the series. But I don't think anyone can call Sookie a kick-ass heroine. She is not estranged from her family. In the beginning she is living with her grandma. Her parents died when she was a child. And she keeps reconnecting with her brother frequently during the series.

She meets several "totally kick ass, gorgeous men" and they do tend to solve problems together, but they don't tend to save the universe together, and she hasn't picked out the one to have a HEA with at this point.

In fact Sookie seems to have more in common with the other Harris heroines than with anyone else. They all start out damaged in some way, and they all grow up and begin to deal with what is wrong with them. And all three of the ones I've read (out of four) have worked on their family relationships.

Try Tanya Huff. She even has some male protagonists.

KatiKat wrote: "Is it just me or does it really feel like there's no original idea in the urban fantasy genre anymore? All the new UF books seem to have the same carbon copy of a heroine and the same carbon copy o..."

I get what you are saying. Most UF does follow those type of guidelines. What makes stories stand apart for me, or the wow factor, is how well written the book is. If I feel a deep connection to the characters along with a plot that keeps me turning pages, in the end I usually feel like I don't want the book to end, or I can't wait to read the next book.

Why don't you try some other genres for a bit. There are some great YA fantasy books out there that don't follow the pattern above. Beautiful Creatures, The Mortal Instruments, and the Morganville Vampires (Glass Houses is the first book) are all original YA UF (in the sense that they take place here and now). Maybe if you take a break from UF it won't seem so stale when you pick it back up again.

New to this group so I appoligize if this book series has already been recommneded, but Jeaniene Frost's Night Huntress Series is a great read. I know it seams all these series have a similar theme, but this series it kind of unique, very well written, not the long blah blah backgrounds, lots of humor, bantor, and english spite. I have ready Kim Harrison (to me that is one series that stands out out differnt) LKH is ok, Briggs is good, Charlain Harris is good too. But yeah it seems lots of similar paths for the protaganist.

As much as I like the Jeaniene Frost series, and I have passed it on to my daughter, it actually does follow the plot summary that is being complained about, including being the bad attitude and the bad relationships with family.

What I liked about the series was the interesting universe the protagonist lived in and HOW her problems were being solved. Frankly I can't remember another series where the heroine was running an all male para-military government unit.

Anita (LKH) tends to find herself in and out of such units, but she doesn't run any of them. Rachel (Briggs) leaves the government in her first book (it is the plot of the first book), Sookie (Harris) never even interacts with anything governmental unless you are talking about the vampire or werewolf inner "governments" or the occasional local policeman.

Check out S. M. Peters Ghost Ocean. I can't recommend this book enough to people, its my favorite of the last few years, and I've been digging into 'all the above' for a while.

i loved Anita Blake now it makes me want to cry skintrade was awful for the most part i just want to o steal the characters away from lkh and make it better i don't know if it counts as urban fantasy but all of Allan Campbell books starting with scare night are really good the heroin is pretty kick but but not the main thing and 3 books in and no romance at all just good friendship which is a nice change of pace

I like the UF books that don't have sex/love/romance. It's nice for a change, not to be bombarded with that aspect!

What great recommendations, I do agree somewhat with kat some of the books that I have read are very similar in content and plot, but being new tot he sci fi fantasy genre I can cope with it quite well. There are lotso fo books in this genre that I have not read, but still I do like something original. I have found that paranormal fantasy books have a similar storyline not to mention bad writing..sherilyn kenyons fantasy lover comes to mind,...goodness!! I could actually see my IQ evaporating before my eyes whislt reading that book.

Anyway thanks for the book recommendations, Iam hunting them down as we speak.

I just came across these books by S.J. Day

They are not like a lot of what is out there are there are heavy religious themes, which sounds like it would distract from the story, but it doesn't, it adds to it.

I plan to read the Eve books. I must say the covers look kind of sleazy. It's kind of a turn off for me.

@ Danielle, I have to agree with you about the covers being a little cheezy, but the writing is good. I read them all in about 2 1/2 days, it seemed like I couldn't put them down. I am not a big religious person so I was prepared to not like the books, only picked them up after a friend recommended them to me, so it really surprised me how much I liked them.

I'm so glad to hear that, Darcy. That encourages me to read them sooner. Thanks!

I'm almost afraid to comment on this one. You guys have all made some excellent recommendations and have made really good points about what is annoyingly the same about UF right now.

How about a married husband and wife team? They run an resort for the undead set above the Arctic circle in Alaska where it's dark 20 hours a day in the winter. She's a vamp, he's her human mate - yes, she's powerful but not the be all end all of the world. They try to solve a murder without alerting the guests while juggling the outrageous demands of the undead at the same time.

No bad guy that she is the only one with the power to kill and must be forced to hunt down. No male hero that magically fights by her side as an equal. No fight scenes in the book at all. She uses her mind to solve and control the situations around her - she's a a "master manipulator".

Hmm...hoping that doesn't sound too hokey. The book jacket sounds better but I was trying to figure out if my book falls into the annoying formula you described... doesn't sound like it does. Hurray!

Maybe some day mine will be good enough to be a book of the month selection on here - hey, a girl can hope, right?

Actually CJ, I think that books sounds good. I would give it a try it you let me know the title.

Sometimes I don't mind that things are the same as long as the characters are well written. I have series that I read that I know how the book is going to go before I start and that is ok because the people in them is what keeps me interested.

Darcy wrote: "Actually CJ, I think that books sounds good. I would give it a try it you let me know the title.

Sometimes I don't mind that things are the same as long as the characters are well written. I h..."

I'd be happy to send you an advanced reader copy - but the book isn't out yet.

Is there a way to reply to people individually or in a private email? I'm still pretty new at this and didn't want to keep having an off topic discussion on a large thread (I'd hate to be rude and considered pushy my first few posts out!)

@ CJ - I'll send you my address in a PM.

C.J. wrote: "I'm almost afraid to comment on this one. You guys have all made some excellent recommendations and have made really good points about what is annoyingly the same about UF right now.

How about a ..."

This sounds interesting to me. I'm all about vampires anyway and this sounds promising, so I'd read it! Hope it sells well for you.

I agree, CJ. I think your book sounds very interesting. Keep us posted on when you release it. If you don't mind, I'm going to friend-vite you.

C.J. wrote: "Is there a way to reply to people individually or in a private email? I'm still pretty new at this and didn't want to keep having an off topic discussion on a large thread (I'd hate to be rude and considered pushy my first few posts out!)..."

We are pretty lax in the group with self-promotion as long as you follow the rules (which you have!). :)

To send a private message, go to the person's profile page and click on "Send Message". That is a private message between the two of you.

And, I agree, your book sounds really interesting. Keep us in the loop on when it is going to be published. :)

CJ,

I'm with Danielle, Melodie and Darcy. I really think you may have something unusual there!

Any of you want any ARC pdf copy you just let me know! I'm happy to send it to anyone who likes the genre and is willing to give it a shot.

Feel free to email me for an ecopy,
C.J.
cj_ellisson@yahoo.com

I just read Amazon Ink, by Lori Devoti, and found this to be very different from what is out there in this genre. For one it is based on Amazon's and their culture, and while there is a little romance angle it is small.

That's good to hear, Darcy. I bought this one especially because I wanted to read an UF with an Amazon.

I just finished Magic Bites by Ilona Andrews, and it's really recharged my love of a good UF kickbutt heroine (other than Mercy, cause she rocks too).

Danielle "The Book Huntress" wrote: "That's good to hear, Darcy. I bought this one especially because I wanted to read an UF with an Amazon.

I just finished Magic Bites by Ilona Andrews, and it's really recharged my lo..."

Amazon Ink is definitely going to be on my best of 2009 list.

Shomeret wrote, Amazon Ink is definitely going to be on my best of 2009 list.

I agree with you there. I was surprised by how much I really liked it.

How about Norse Code ?

With perpetual Winter slowly destroying civilization and end-of-the-world portents everywhere, modern-day, tech-savvy Valkyries use DNA testing to select warriors for Ragnarok.

The main characters of this very entertaining ramble through Norse mythology are an increasingly reluctant Valkyrie, her long-suffering trainer, a ghost and a woebegon Aesir (Hermod) who's been avoiding his family and is currently wandering through in California. Their fates collide just in time for them to become major players in the Twilight of the Gods.

I almost didn't pick this up because of the "modern-girl-with-a-sword" cover, but can't resist any book that mentions, Odin, Thor, Loki, Hel, et. al. I have to say, I'm glad I did. It remains one of my favorite finds of this year.

I loved this one too, Mick. I think the cover is very misleading, and that's why more people didn't like it, IMHO.

Mick wrote: "How about Norse Code?

With perpetual Winter slowly destroying civilization and end-of-the-world portents everywhere, modern-day, tech-savvy Valkyries ..."

Amazon recommended this book to me because they know from my purchases that I normally can't resist books involving Norse mythology, but I guess that Amazon's description didn't make it sound that attractive. I wondered about whether the portrayals of the Aesir would seem authentic to me, or whether it would feel like a rip-off of the mythology--like many books that supposedly draw on Native American mythic figures. So that's why I haven't read it yet.

There is only one suggestion I would add- and I'm not really even sure if this falls under the right catergory. Have you ever read Jacqueline Carey's Kushiel's series? Not quite sure if it's UF- but it's really good. One of the reasons I liked it so much was there was this underlying political background to the stories that kept it interesting. Again though- not sure if this fits the catergory of what you're trying to read.

Oh, second thought- does Lilith Saintcrow fit into this one? The Dante Valentine series to seemed "out-there" and different. I really enjoyed it completely.

Rob Thurman's Cal Leandros series is has a lot of unique monsters and the more well known creatures such as vampires and werewolves are pretty different. First book:

Liz Williams Inspector Chin series is original because it focusses on Asian mythology, but like Lilith Saintcow's Dante Valantine series it takes place in the near future. First book:


Mike Carey's Felix Castor series has an original take on ghosts and demons. first book: