The Catholic Book Club discussion

3. Jane Lebak will participate in this discussion. If you have any questions to her, you can ask them in this thread.

I have two questions, Jane.

Cardinal Ludovico Simonetta is portrayed in the novel as a manipulator who twists his reports to the Pope to make bishops in favor of reform appear as heretics, so as to induce the Pope to order their "execution."

1. Do you have information that suggests that Simonetta was this kind of man, or is his behavior purely fictitious?

2. Was there any real case where Pope Pius IV actually ordered the "execution" of a heretic without a previous trial, or is this also fictitious?

Manuel wrote: "I have two questions, Jane.

1. Do you have information that suggests that Simonetta was this kind of man, or is his behavior purely fictitious?

This is, unfortunately, exactly how he's described in Trent: What Happened at the Council." Page 174: Simonetta "was the legate whom Pius came most to trust and whose reports from Trent he gave the most credence. Those reports, kept secret from the other legates, were highly critical of Gonzaga and Seripando and undermined their authority in Rome." The book later refers to them as poison pen letters.

When I started working on the book, I had very little knowledge about the circumstances that led to the Reformation, so the research was like a bucket of cold water to the face. I tried to keep the historical figures' personalities as true to what I read about them as possible. On the plus side, that means Morone and Seripando were just as amazing and too-good-to-be-true as I wrote them, if not moreso.

2. Was there any real case where Pope Pius IV actually ordered the "execution" of a heretic without a previous trial, or is this also fictitious? That I believe I did make up. Pius IV had some issues and was engaged in wholesale manipulation of the way the third session of the unfolded, but I don't believe he is recorded as ordering anyone executed. Removed, sent home, undermined--all that was documented.

Were you aware that there is in Poland an order of nuns of Saint Catherine of Alexandria, founded in 1571? But they don't do what your nuns did :-)
https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suore_d...

By the way, female Theatines were not created until 1583 by Ursula Benincasa. Male Theatines were created in 1524 by Saint Cajetan of Thiene, as you mention in the book.

Jane, as a Spaniard, I must take exception to the fact that you have invented a plot by the Spanish delegation in Trent to assassinate Pope Pius IV. A novel should not distort history to the point of slandering a country or a person.

On the other hand, you don't mention the important participation of the Spanish theologians in the Trent reform of the Catholic Church, with names such as Domingo de Soto, Diego Laínez, Alfonso Salmerón o Melchor Cano, entre otros. You only mention Diego Laínez in his role as attendant to a dying prelate.

By the way, the "Bula de la Santa Cruzada" was bestowed long before 1497, to provide the Spanish monarchs with funds for the conquest of Granada, the last Muslim state in Spain (that was the Cruzada). When Granada was conquered in 1492, the Bula continued, with the same name, for other purposes. It was terminated by the II Vatican Council, in the nineteen sixties. I was alive when it was still in effect.

Jane wrote: " On the plus side, that means Morone and Seripando were just as amazing and too-good-to-be-true as I wrote them, if not moreso. "

I am glad to read this.

I’m confused. Count Luna is a secular delegate to the council, no? I don’t think an exception should be taken on behalf of this as it is fictional. Am I wrong? Pointing out all the good Spain has done for the Faith and for the Council is acceptable, but is Count Luna a real person? Is Gallego? The plot could have shifted to the French possibly, but I don’t see it as a point for condemnation, especially since when we have the ear of the author, in public.

Christopher wrote: "I’m confused. Count Luna is a secular delegate to the council, no? I don’t think an exception should be taken on behalf of this as it is fictional. Am I wrong? Pointing out all the good Spain has d..."

Yes, Count Luna was a real person: Claudio Fernández Vigil de Quiñones, IV Count of Luna. This is his page in the Spanish Wikipedia: https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claudio...

In a post in my blog, I explained which are, in my view, the golden rules for a good historical novel: https://populscience.blogspot.com/201.... The second one is applicable here:

The real historical characters should be secondary: These characters should act in the novel exactly as they did in reality. Regarding them, facts are not invented, they are interpreted.

In the novel we are discussing, Pope Pius IV and Count Luna are made to be instigators of assassination, which in fact they were not. This is what I don't like.

Thanks for the clarification. I agree.

It would have been quite easy to adapt the novel to comply with the golden rules of the historic novel.

a) Spanish ambassador Count Luna could have been replaced by Count Hentzau, ambassador from Ruritania (a fictional country) who would attempt the assassination of the Pope.

b) The Pope as instigator of assassinations could be avoided if he had been said to have delegated control of the Catherinite nuns in a fictional Cardinal who would have ordered the assassinations without the knowledge of the Pope.

The remainder of the novel could have stayed the same.