Addicted to YA discussion

Hi all, am new to this YA group but have read a fair number of books that are considered YA, and yet I don't think I could define YA in any exact way or decide if a given book really qualifies or not. Does this group have a formal definition of YA? Then there are things like "YA adjacent" and "New Adult". I have not seen good definitions that help to clarify among these either. Thoughts welcome!

To my understanding YA and New Adult (or NA) are more about demographic marketing than they are a genre. Those two in a nutshell could be defined as marketed to roughly a high school market versus to a college market, respectively.

If you have a fantasy book for toddlers (fantasy board book) grade school (fantasy picture or chapter book), middle school/junior high (middle grade fantasy), high school (YA fantasy), College (NA fantasy), anything above (adult fantasy, or usually just fantasy).

This is by no means researched or necessarily correct, so if someone has a better answer, by all means, provide it.

Tommy, sounds like you nailed it!. I, too, have been struggling to define what constitutes a YA book. With every definition provided by knowledgeable readers, I get closer to an understanding of the term. Thank you, Tommy.
Regards,
Andrea

I’d say (and Thai is for romantic YA )a book were the characters are under 30 and it’s clean and theres somewhat of a “life lesson”

New Aduly is considered seperate, college age. I have see some coming of age 12-14 yr olds considered YA. I am suprised by the different YA genres. So much adult content seems to be in YA books. Sometimes it seems justified because it realistic fiction and other times it seems over the top to bring in readers who might not be ready for the violence or sex. Hard to weed out which readers can handle the content. Trigger warnings are sometimes needed. I also find eome realistic YA books can be both YA and Adult fiction because it usually involves family drama affecting everyone.

Ultimately it is up to readers, there is no one size fits all.

These are great comments, thanks. I think Beth brings up some important points - if you only define YA by "target age group" and not think at all about content, it seems to miss the point. It also needs to be appropriate for the age group. On the other hand, how do "we" decide what is appropriate for a 12, 15, 18 year old reader? I've had people tell me "kids nowadays are exposed to everything (sex, violence) by the time they're 12, so don't worry about it." But I do worry, a little.

Full disclosure - I've just published a novel that has some (not a lot) of sexual and mildly violent situations, and I think the 16-19 crowd would be fine with it (and would like the book, since it is about that age group). But a) I'm not so sure about 13 year olds, and b) I also mostly hope to market it to an adult audience, not just older teens. So I really hesitate to say anything about YA in marketing it. Maybe "New Adult through adult"? Pretty awkward.

PS I just looked up New Adult, and the AI answer is "18-25, sometimes up to 30". Vague, but interesting. Then there is the question, how many people even know the "NA" designation or the age range? Young Adult is clearly much better known and probably better understood.

From a public library perspective - well the ones I work at anyway - they have a junior fiction/middle grade section, teen fiction and then adult fiction which is broken down in sci-fi, fantasy, horror, crime so I think the lines are a bit more blurred. Personally I've thought of it as covering that time of transitioning from child to adult and learning important life lessons, with an edge to it. For example, Harry Potter starts at middle grade/junior as it has quite a cosy, fantastical feel to it and the characters are mainly 12/13 year olds. Where as later on, when darker themes start to become more prominent and relationships and responsibilities change, the books shift to young adult.

I think another thing is sometimes people think that just because it says Teen or Young Adult that means only people in that category can enjoy it? When most of the time I feel like its about the contents and the age of the main group of characters.

When we read books as staff for reading panels in the build up to the yearly children's book awards this is a conversation we revisit every year!

Aimee, from a Librarian’s viewpoint, I worked in a University Library for five years … and there were no holds barred! Of course, that was long before “Huckleberry Finn” became a banned book … we studied it in first-year English, when I was 18 … Percival Everett’s “James” makes clear what was “wrong” with Twain’s version … they should probably be taught as a two- volume set these days!
Regards,
Andrea
by Mark Twain
by Percival Everett

It is generally based on the age of the main characters with the age needing to be teenage or high school students.
Middle grade the main characters are usually 8-12
YA 13-18
NA (New adult) 18-30
Adult 30 and over
I also had to look all of that up a while ago because I thought it was kind of based on theme, but even YA can have super dark themes at times.
(Sorry for copying and pasting my other post, but I'm too lazy to retype it, hahaha)

Bailey wrote: "It is generally based on the age of the main characters with the age needing to be teenage or high school students.
Middle grade the main characters are usually 8-12
YA 13-18
NA (New adult) 18-30
A..."

Some YA is exceptionally dark and if you look at the ages of some of our newer members they are as young as 12 and 13 and many have read some YA books with dark themes.

Around that age I read Flowers in thd Attic which had dark, adult themes but not as graphic. Newer books are dark but the realistic fiction ones many teens can relate to whereas the more sensationalized ones seem as just that, unrealistic escapism for the most part.

Bailey and Beth, where do graphic novels fit into the equation? I saw the graphic novel version of Rick Atkinson’s book, “The British Are Coming; the British Are Coming,” and I was appalled … however, some graphic novels are simply drop-dead gorgeous … the art is such you could care less about the plot, what there is of it.
Regards,
Andrea

by Rick Atkinson
by Rick Atkinson

Bailey wrote: "It is generally based on the age of the main characters with the age needing to be teenage or high school students.
Middle grade the main characters are usually 8-12
YA 13-18
NA (New adult) 18-30
A..."
You are correct. Young adult books are books with Teens as the main character no matter the topics they cover.

So, does anyone feel there are some YA books (or some that are tagged as YA, marketed as YA) out there that are truly inappropriate for, say, 12-13 year olds? Is this an ongoing concern for anyone?

McLeod, you’ve hit the nail on the head!. Everyone matures at different rates, and it is seldom age-specific. The loss of innocence is rarely reversible; so I shudder when I recommend books for the “young.” Some writers are so marvelously able that I always feel comfortable recommending them (like, say, C. S. Lewis), but other books …
Regards,
Andrea
by C.S. Lewis
by C.S. Lewis

Andrea wrote: "Tommy, sounds like you nailed it!. I, too, have been struggling to define what constitutes a YA book. With every definition provided by knowledgeable readers, I get closer to an understanding of the term. Thank you, Tommy.
Regards,
Andrea."

Glad you found the answer useful, and thank you so much for such kind words in reply :)

McCleod, after reading your replies (and a different post elsewhere further clarifying your positions), I actually find myself agreeing with you more than not, and even for similar reasons (I myself am editing a few drafts that are, for the most part, YA, and I feel a responsibility for what I put in front of, say, a 13-year-old). That said, I stand by my answers even while not personally loving them haha. YA and NA are a lot closer to "PG13" and "R" ratings than they are a description of tropes or plot devices. Thing is, the rules as applied to print vs. TV/movie are incredibly different.

In general, a book that stars a 16-year-old is going to be classified YA regardless of genre or content. There are certainly exceptions, but that's the general rule of thumb. Hence Perks of Being a Wallflower and Hunger Games being sold in the same aisle despite being wildly different in most ways, aside from young kid burgeoning into adulthood and dealing with the issues that come with that in their particular world.

Movies and T.V., Tommy,are absolutely clueless when it comes to assessing age-appropriate content. Case in point: Many, many years ago I snuck my under-age brother into a PG13 movie, “The Magic Christian”, because of its music offerings. The music was indeed grand; however, I had the socks shocked off me … and I was all of 18!
Regards,
Andrea

(perhaps not the basis for the film … I don’t know)

Hi there!
As a YA writer, I feel like I've asked myself this a hundred times. Just because a protagonist is a teen doesn't always make it a YA book, right? There has to be events that really show a coming of age for the character. Usually, a scene like school or some other place a young adult learns something about themselves from. Issues teens face is also what makes YA YA. I don't think if a young protagonist is facing adult scenarios, like in Stephen King's 'Fairytale', that should be considered YA.

I see YA as a crossover genre, never with both feet in one of the other. The characters may be YA but the subject matter almost always involve elements from another genre, horror to love, sci-fi to fantasy, contemporary to historical and family saga. It’s more about the perceptions and actions of the YA’s involved. That’s why they are so hard for adults to write, getting that balance without having to rely too much on suspension of disbelief.

John, sounds like you’ve got the right idea! I’m thankful I’m not trying to write YA.
Regards,
Andrea

John wrote: "I see YA as a crossover genre, never with both feet in one of the other. The characters may be YA but the subject matter almost always involve elements from another genre, horror to love, sci-fi to fantasy, contemporary to historical and family saga. It’s more about the perceptions and actions of the YA’s involved. That’s why they are so hard for adults to write, getting that balance without having to rely too much on suspension of disbelief ."

Same boat, honestly. The thing I am currently working on is TECHNICALLY urban fantasy, and is largely about loss/grief (and slaying literal monsters, because I love genre fiction haha) and honestly gets very heavy where teen-audience (and perhaps older) is concerned. It's a tight rope, but for me, also the most fun stuff to write.

Andrea wrote: "Movies and T.V., Tommy,are absolutely clueless when it comes to assessing age-appropriate content. Case in point: Many, many years ago I snuck my under-age brother into a PG13 movie, “The Magic Chr..."

I am both scared and intrigued haha.

I've seen quite a few thoughtful comments on this topic and from what I can tell based on the comments and from my time working in public libraries is that the age of the characters themselves seems to be a factor. But coming of age I believe has to be important regardless of if it's fantasy, sci-fi, horror etc.

Themes are a little harder to categorise because I've seen some YA stories like Skullduggery Pleasant, the Divergent series and the Shadow Hunter series to name a few examples that have some pretty dark themes in them but they are still classed as YA. Or there are series like Harry Potter which starts out as relatively cosy with the odd dark theme thrown in but becomes progressively darker and more mature as the series progresses.

I do believe that older teens (16-18) can handle darker themes. Sometimes those themes can help them process what it means to be a teenager on the cusp of becoming an adult. Though younger teens maybe not so much but it depends on the individual.

A lot of the time the classification of YA books can be a little tricker than books for younger children and adults as they have a clearer idea of what should be in those books. With adults it's more or less anything goes. With young children's it's making sure things are age appropriate. But with YA it's more ambiguous, some books are cosy, some have very dark themes, some have spice in them if they're romance. Also, YA isn't just enjoyed by teens, plenty of adults enjoy them too.

I think it's partly age group of the characters but also themes play a large role as well and YA can easily cross over into adult.

〰️Beth〰️ wrote: "New Aduly is considered seperate, college age. I have see some coming of age 12-14 yr olds considered YA. I am suprised by the different YA genres. So much adult content seems to be in YA books. So..."

In some ways, it is very objective. For example, using F-bombs is very typical for a lot of teens (maybe most) but that might be a problem for some YA readers.

Stephanie wrote: "In some ways, it's very objective. ..."

I totally agree with you. I read Helter Skelter: The True Story of the Manson Murders at 9 and Flowers in the Attic when it published, I was 12. Back then i am not certain if it was classed as YA but I was mature enought to handle the themes. My mother discussed the Manson case with me. She had no problem with me reading darker mature themes but she knew what I was reading.

There were other YA books back then and I read some but it was nothing like what began to emerge in the early 2000's. The market is swamped with books labeled YA but now they need trigger warnings. The romantasy genre authors and high fantasy now have to specify ADULT while some of the YA books teeter on that edge of YA or Adult.
It's difficult for the readers and the authors.

Hi everyone. My name is Linda Pogue. My account is under my pen name, Lynn Nodima. For the past few years, I worked as an English teacher for junior high and high school students. I was extremely surprised by the material students read in literature books. Some is very dark, and borderline adult content. When I first started teaching, the principal suggested I use one of my books in my classroom. My books are clean, no spice, and no profanity. But there is some minimal violence, nothing gory or explicit. I insisted he read it first, because, even though it is YA, I wasn't sure it was a good fit for public school. He told me he thought my students would enjoy the book he read, so I used it in my classes. My students seemed enthusiastic. Anyway, the point is that while so many YA books are borderline adult content, much of the same material is being used in classrooms. Including Harry Potter and Hunger Games books. In my personal opinion, YA is 13 to any age after. I find many of my YA readers are in their thirties and forties. Some in their fifties and sixties. I am in my sixties and still pick up a YA book over adult content, just because books considered YA today were common adult reading in my youth. While some themes are darker, the lack of profanity and spice is important to me.

McLeod wrote: "Hi all, am new to this YA group but have read a fair number of books that are considered YA, and yet I don't think I could define YA in any exact way or decide if a given book really qualifies or n..."

Hi. I'm new to this group, too. I agree that it is difficult to define YA. My only criteria, which is much stricter than others hold, is that it must have no spice and no profanity, For instance, the worst word in my books is 'crap,' which admittedly isn't good, but is much better than alternatives. I have read some new adult books. The only difference I saw between those and adult books was the age of the protagonist. College aged main characters instead of adultes in mid-to-late twenties and older.

Stephanie, that's a fair point. Teens read across such a wide range that YA ends up covering everything from lighter adventure to really heavy themes. I think that's why it helps to check a few reviews first, since two YA books can feel totally different.