Persephone Books discussion

Any thoughts on Ellen, who is set up as the protagonist of the novel? Was she too noble to be believed? Too naive?
It seems to me that she would be a very popular heroine in the time the novel was published - she is a hard-working middle-class woman who is dedicated to the happiness of her family.

I think Ellen North was very believable for the times. Women were raised to be her like.

Unfortunately, she had better character than her husband. That came out, even before his affair with Louise. I thought Ellen and her husband's partner would get together in the end, but they didn't.

Beth, I liked that Ellen and the partner didn't get together and I also liked that she went back to the retirement communtity where she had lived during the war which then ended up employing and housing her.

It almost suggests that women are more secure in the company of other women - or at least that women's communities have a power to them that can be sustaining when some aspect of a patriarchal society (war, marriage)falls apart. I know thats a simplistic view but it is interesting that the retirement hotel shelters her twice.

I thought Ellen was an interesting product of her time - caught in a morass of changing familial, cultural and societal post WWII culture (no full-time servants, crumbling marriage, accessible divorce, grown-up ( or close to) children. The fact that she was able to adapt to change made her more successful than Louise, who not only couldn't adapt to anything new but needed to rely on a man to change her situation.

I totally agree, Lauren. I definitely got from the book that Ellen is better off, or at least better appreciated, among women. On behalf of Ellen, I was very at odds with her family situation. She works incredibly hard, and her family just blindly accepts it, without lifting a finger. On top of this, Ellen must also maintain the social front of an upper-middle class businessman's wife who does NOT have to work very hard. Even when Anne "flits about" setting the table, Ellen must re-set it.
At the retirement community, Ellen is appreciated by all and actually gets paid (both monetarily and is given a place to live for herself, her children and Anne's horse) for the work she does. For the first time in the novel, people are making allowances for Ellen instead of the other way around.
I honestly thought that, had things not ended up the way they did, Ellen was on the path to becoming another version of old Mrs. North - bitter and angry at the children who she spoiled (we are told specifically at the beginning that Mrs. North spoiled Avery, and expected more attention from him in her older age), who no longer have time for her.

Your perspective is interesting. I just thought it was very sad that Ellen's marriage fell apart. I've always had a good career, and so I tend to envy women who get to stay at home.

Beth, I also work away from home and have had periods of envy for friends who did not have to work outside the home or simply chose not to. It's a tough subject for most women.

But Ellen was unusual in that she was an upper middle class woman (with her own income, by the way, though not enough to sustain her completely) who enjoyed domestic arts even though she was supposed to find women who would work for her. It makes the fact that she is then able to find paying work dong the same thing even more surprising. Also, for the time, it was unusual for a woman to work outside the home. although I think one of the things this book is about is much the war changed that.

My only problem with the book was the ending which I felt was out of keeping with the way Ellen was developing as a person. It reminded me of the ending of The Women where Mary Haines is pleased to go back to her husband even though he is a lying cheater.

Yes, I didn't like that either, though I know it sometimes happens, and frankly, it surprised me that Whipple wrote it that way. Ellen seemed very fulfilled in her new life.

Lauren - I also think it was significant that Ellen went back to the retirement community. She did very well there, and I think she would have been very content to stay there the rest of her life--so I was disappointed with the ending. Avery really didn't deserve her!
It was painful to read the part after Avery left Ellen--she was going through so much, but she didn't have anyone she could talk to or any way to express her feelings properly.

Gina, I agree; it was a very difficult read in those chapters after Avery leaves. Whipple did a fantastic job of reflecting that sense of shock and betrayal and pure PAIN that Ellen is going through.
I think you bring out something very important when you say that Ellen has no one to talk to, really. She still must maintain the front that things are OK for the townspeople, and must be strong for her children. Ellen was so busy in her years of marriage to Avery that she was not really allowed the time and pleasure to develop friendships. This is what is so satisfying to me when she goes to work in the retirement home - she forms bonds and relationships with the people there.
I was also very disappointed with her inclination in the end to reconcile with Avery. Given the intense pain we witness in her betrayal, I don't see how they could be a functioning pair again.

I don't think Ellen ever stopped loving Avery, as angry as she was. He was immature, all or nothing, guilty, couldn't face his children. He did the easier thing by cutting off all contact and isolating himself. His guilt made him chose a miserable existance with an unfeeling person, as if he didn't deserve anything better. He could have left both women and tried to salvage something with his children but couldnt face their anger or disappointment.

My sense is that Ellen would have tried to work something out with him that was not so extreme. She was more accomodating, flexible, and yes, mature.

But it was striking that she had no friends her own age.