Project Mayhem discussion

This story made my blood boil:

Critics Cost Muslim Educator Her Dream School

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In a nutshell, a Muslim educator named Debbie Almontaser started a public school in Brooklyn where Arab-American and children from other ethnicities would attend school together, learn Arabic and other languages, and study under the guidelines suggested by the school's namesake, Khalil Gibran. No doubt Gibran, who advocated knowledge and pacifism, would have been proud. All the while this school would be adhering to the curriculum of the New York City Board of Education.

No biggie, right? After all, this is Brooklym, THE melting pot of New York City. Christians and Jews and Muslims and Hindus and everyone all co-existing and co-mingling with one another. It's how I grew up in New York.

Unfortunately, the right-wing fascist brigade screamed "WHAT THE FUCK?" And before Bill O'Reilly could be called into action, a smear campaign was launched against Ms. Almontaser,spearheaded by Daniel Pipes of the conservative think-tank Middle East Forum (read his hatchet job here - A Madrassa Grows in Brooklyn). A group calling themselves "Stop the Madrassa", with Mr. Pipes' consent, of course, suggested that Ms. Almontaser was a radical Jihadist who harbored a militant Islamic agenda. Those bastions of yellow journalism The New York Post carried their ignorant flag to battle.

The Board of Education pressured her into resigning, which she did. Those cowards at the New York Times, while reporting the story, didn't raise a peep or an objection to her shameful treatment.

Is this what this country has become, a land where religious McCarthyism holds sway? It's perfectly acceptable for Christian and Jewish schools to fall under the domain of public education, but not Muslim schools?

Remember what Sinclair Lewis once wrote: When fascism finally comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying the Cross.

Sadly, Mr. Lewis is being proven right.

There is nothing right about what's happened here at all. At all.

Gus said: It's perfectly acceptable for Christian and Jewish schools to fall under the domain of public education, but not Muslim schools?

Actually it is NOT acceptable to have Christian and Jewish schools as public schools. There is some debate about whether vouchers would be permitted for private religious schools with a substantial number of folks arguing for the prohibited position based upon the current interpretation of separation.

Your argument here does more to support the view that KGIA actually IS a madrassa and allows your opponents to choose the language of the debate in their favor.

KGIA is simply a dual language public school ... One of 60 if the reports I read are correct ... And being the first Arabic language school actually stands to receive significant funding from the federal government. The school does not appear to be in danger of closing despite recent controversies, so I would say that you appear to be giving too much credibility to a vocal minority (in fact, only 1 student has withdrawn and enrollment is near planned capacity).

All of that said ... There are reasons such a school should be more closely monitored then many other schools. The primary point being that such a school MIGHT encourage a de facto segregation of native arabic speakers from American society. I think that is a real concern and steps should be in place to mitigation this possibility. Such strategies would probably hinder any attempts of radicalization by default; however, it should also be recognized that some indoctrination to pan-arabic views IS necessary if we are interested at all in establishing a productive dialogue since cultural misunderstanding is a significant reason western policy in the middle-east is so screwed up.

I never said anything about this school being closed. My complaint is about the shameful treatment being given to this educator simply because of her Muslim beliefs. Unfortunately, not giving credit to "vocal minorities", in this case the Stop the Madrassa group, is exactly why these groups are allowed to spread ignorance and intolerance. These groups, while in the minority, are very vocal and are well-supported. Look around you: these right-wing ideologues love to spew invective while hiding behind the flag and the cross. Their argument has nothing to do with education; it has everything to do with vilifing Islam as a religion of terror. We may be at war with terrorism, but we are not at war with Islam. I don't care what the neocons have to say about this.

A "madrassa" is NOT what right-wing media will lead you to believe. By its' very definition, it means "school" or a place of education. The fact that the term "madrassa" has co-opted by Islamic radicals as a place to teach hatred towards the West is unfortunate, but this is not the case with the KGIA. Are we to remove the word "university" from the English language because universities like Liberty and Bob Jones University preach religious intolerance and hatred towards those who do not accept Jesus Christ? Words can be manipulated to mean what a group wants them to mean. I find what Stop the Madrassa are doing to be absolutely vulgar and obscene, and they should be ashamed of themselves.

Gus said: A "madrassa" is NOT what right-wing media will lead you to believe. By its' very definition, it means "school" or a place of education. The fact that the term "madrassa" has co-opted by Islamic radicals as a place to teach hatred towards the West is unfortunate, but this is not the case with the KGIA. Are we to remove the word "university" from the English language because universities like Liberty and Bob Jones University preach religious intolerance and hatred towards those who do not accept Jesus Christ? Words can be manipulated to mean what a group wants them to mean.

However technically accurate you argument here may be ... communication is always a two-way street. If you pick a word knowing that it will be misinterpreted by the majority of your audience, you are not communicating effectively. For better or for worse, the term madrassa in American parlance now has a negative connotation regardless of its original meaning. This is true of a number of terms that have been used rather insensitively in the past ... Including the term 'crusade.' What is more important to you? Purity of language or effective communications?

Playing "devil's advocate", I see.

I am using the word "madrassa" to demonstrate how certain words can be manipulated to negative effect, by being co-opted by those with less-than-honorable intentions. Whether we like it or not, the word "madrassa" now has an almost sinister connotation to it. Just as I'm certain the word "crusade" has a negative connotation to those in the Muslim community. But we're not really arguing the meaning of the words, we're arguing how those words are used. So, yes, the purity of language is important to me, but, to others, how the words are used, especially in a negative fashion, is far more important.

You make a very valid point. Thank you for bringing it up.

Gus said: Playing "devil's advocate", I see.

To be more clear ... I was trying to refine the argument in the school's defense, since the article and summary presentation appeared to be attacking the school.

I have been trying to find out more about Ms. Almontaser with little success; plenty of information from her detractors (some of it problematic if true), but very little from her supporters. I would have liked to hear more of her story from her own point of view, but either the media is not interested in reporting that (with the exception of the current law suit and supporting court documents) or she has been unable to put together a coherent defense. I assume more will come out at the trial.

You know I'm only busting your chops...

I think Ms. Almontaser's been reluctant to talk to the media ever since the NY Post railroaded her into her no-comment regarding the "Intifada NYC" t-shirts that were seen at the school. It's also possible that, as you said, the media's not interested in her side of the story, even though her side is the one that's been woefully underreported.