European Royalty discussion

I'd like to start reading about Eleanor Of Aquitaine. What is a good first fiction book? I plan to read Alison Weir's book, any other good nonfiction?

I'm very partial to Penman's trilogy on her and Henry, When Christ and His Saints Slept, Time and Chance and Devil's Brood. I believe both Alison Weir and Cecelia Holland have novels coming out this year on Eleanor.

I would second the Penman books.

I almost forgot. Do not under any circumstances read the two Alan Savage books on Eleanor. Bad, unbelievably bad.

I wish I'd have started with Penman's Eleanor - I liked her best!
I loved Norah Lofts Eleanor the Queen. I read it first and her Eleanor (strong, smart and independent) has stuck with me.
The only reason I wished I'd read Penmans first was because her books are far more in-depth (and, as always, so well written!) but by the time I got to them I'd already read 3 about Eleanor and there were no surprises. I was a bit bored, and I attribute that to being over-Eleanored.

Plaidy's Courts of Love is good, too.

There's also this one, but I haven't read it yet. Had it out from the library once but I got sick-tracked.

I liked Norah Lofts' Eleanor the Queen as well. It's the first Eleanor book I read. I haven't read the Penman or Plaidy ones mentioned, but I love both those authors (and own the books - it's just a matter of time!).

Misfit wrote: "There's also this one, but I haven't read it yet. Had it out from the library once but I got sick-tracked.

"

this is a wall-banger book!!

Good to know Laura. The cover for Weir's new novel on Eleanor is up on Amazon UK.



I like it not.

I read the Margaret Ball book. Checked it out of the library. I can't remember anything about it so I'm guessing it wasn't that good!

Misfit wrote: "Good to know Laura. The cover for Weir's new novel on Eleanor is up on Amazon UK.



I like it not."

after Lady Elizabeth, I don´t trust on Weir´s books no matter what.

Robin wrote: "I read the Margaret Ball book. Checked it out of the library. I can't remember anything about it so I'm guessing it wasn't that good!"

I agree with that. I don't think it covered anything after Eleanor's marriage to Henry either.

Laura wrote: "Robin wrote: "I read the Margaret Ball book. Checked it out of the library. I can't remember anything about it so I'm guessing it wasn't that good!"

I agree with that. I don't think it covered ..."

No, it didn't. It ended with their wedding I believe.

I first started reading about Eleanor with The Book of Eleanor by Pamela Kaufman. I remember loving it at the time, but I was new to historical fiction then. I might pick this one up again to see if I still love it.

in my opinion, the best book on Eleanor is the series from SKP, When Christ and His Saints Slept (Eleanor of Aquitane, #1), Time and Chance (Eleanor of Aquitane, #2) and Devil's Brood (Eleanor of Aquitaine, #3).

While not a biography of Eleanor per se, I enjoyed Thomas Costain's entire history series about the Plantagenets. I believe the one with Eleanor in it is The Conquering Family.

just added Susanna, thanks!!

I didn't mind the Margaret Ball book, but Costain's series is v. good.

Ellen Jones wrote two books that aren't as well-researched as SKP's, but that are still good reads. The first, the Fatal Crown (which has some intriguing theories about Henry II's parentage) focuses on Matilda and her battle for the crown. The second, Beloved Enemy, revolves around Eleanor.

You could also look at The Passionate Brood, by Margaret Campbell Barnes. The focus is her children, and while it's been ages since I re-read it, I can't imagine she doesn't play a role!

I remember being disappointed with Norah Lofts' book -- not the contents, but the fact that it was so skinny.

Also worth reading are Penman's series of mysteries, starting with the Queen's Man. Her hero, Justin de Quincy, is retained a private investigator by Eleanor.

Ball's book was rather average - Eleanor has an affair with, Saladin!!!! Come on - highly unbelievable.

Melisende wrote: "Ball's book was rather average - Eleanor has an affair with, Saladin!!!! Come on - highly unbelievable."

:p

Well, to be fair Alan Savage had her doing it with him as well - doggy style. Woof.

Misfit wrote: "Melisende wrote: "Ball's book was rather average - Eleanor has an affair with, Saladin!!!! Come on - highly unbelievable."

:p

Well, to be fair Alan Savage had her doing it with him as well - ..."

OMG - that's way OTT! I thought that Margaret Ball having her having the affair with Saladin was bad enough, but that just takes the cake.

I too loved SKP's trilogy and they are my absolute favourite novels about the Plantagenet dynasty's beginning.

Misfit wrote: "I almost forgot. Do not under any circumstances read the two Alan Savage books on Eleanor. Bad, unbelievably bad."

Thanks Mis, I have to confess I am always supsicious of men writing/pontificating about women anyway and usually only read a book by a man about a woman or women when someone reliable has recommended it. Now someone reliable has saved me .
Thanks again
Eleanor the beautiful, the wise, the brave , the regal, doing it doggy fashion with Saladin. In between battles I suppose. Give me a break.....and viva Norah Lofts!

Sorry to side track this, but to all those Sharon Kay Penman book lovers, have you read her Mystery series with Justin De Quincy? If you have and have loved them, could you go to the "Fans of Justin De Quincy" page on face book, and become a member if you would like her to be able to have the next book in the series published. Her publisher at the moment does not want her to write the next.

Done! May this go viral... I love the series.
(and I think/hope I mentioned this series above; it's a great portrayal of Eleanor...)

*Snort* Andrea you don't even want to know what Savage had her doing with the Empress Matilda :0

Sounds more like tabloid fiction than historical fiction

Not unless your tabloid is one of those that can only be publicly be displayed behind a protective shield so that sensitive youngsters can't spot it...

Misfit wrote: "Melisende wrote: "Ball's book was rather average - Eleanor has an affair with, Saladin!!!! Come on - highly unbelievable."

:p

Well, to be fair Alan Savage had her doing it with him as well - ..."

Lol!

Suzanne wrote: "I didn't mind the Margaret Ball book, but Costain's series is v. good.

Ellen Jones wrote two books that aren't as well-researched as SKP's, but that are still good reads. The first, the Fatal Cro..."
Suzanne
There are two in the Norah Lofts series, the second is called the Lute Player

Misfit wrote: "*Snort* Andrea you don't even want to know what Savage had her doing with the Empress Matilda :0"
Savage sounds like a tool, the sort who cannot write about a woman without refence to sex, usually of the 'yeah right' sort

I started with Alison Weir's nonfiction on Eleanor of Aquitaine and read Sharon Kay Penman's trilogy on Henry II/Eleanor. Excited to see that Weir has an Eleanor of Aquitaine HF coming out!

Christy English has a new HF coming, The Queens Pawn. I also loved Skp & Kaufman's. Kaufman was a good intro, obviously a heavy element of fiction but it was a good read. I then read the trilogy, & The Queen's Pawn will be my next.

Misfit wrote:The cover for Weir's new novel on Eleanor is up on Amazon UK.
I like it not.


:-)
Has anyone read this new Weir book yet? Got some feedback? Would be interested to hear it.
And by the way....what were they thinking with that cover????

Mine just shipped from the UK -- should be here by the end of the week in which case I'll read it next weekend.
The Lute Player is v. good, but I never really think of it as a book about Eleanor. Eleanor is in it, absolutely, but in her role as mother of Richard. I think of the two main characters as Richard and Blondel, followed by Berengaria and Anna, and only then Eleanor. Indeed, if you think about it, it's surprising how few Eleanor-specific books there are given what a fascinating life she led. I suppose there is a lot more info available on Elizabeth Woodville, but really, she was rather dull compared to Eleanor. Definitely SKP has done a good job, but again, only in the context of a much broader project. (I don't see any of her novels as being about a single specific character, but rather about a time, a place, etc. and the main characters involved. The exceptions being her first two books, Sunne, which is def. about Richard III, and Here be Dragons, which is more focused on Joanna and Llewellyn.)

I have The Lute Player, which my mother is reading now. It's on my Mt. TBR.

The Lute Player was one of the first HF books I read, waaay back in the mists of time, when I was about 9 or 10. It was that, Murder Most Royal, and some books by Margaret Campbell Barnes. Back in the early 70s. Gulp. Feeling ancient & decrepit today!

Suzanne wrote: ".Back in the early 70s. Gulp. Feeling ancient & decrepit today! ..."

Now, now Suzanne, don't feel ancient and decrepit. :-) It is just a number.

I'd like to know what it is about Eleanor that lures so many to her story.
Was it that she was supposedly beautiful and a master of her own mind?
Or was it that she lived a long life and did not sit idly by and let others run her affairs and the affairs of her children.

Seems women of the modern era are attracted to her being a force to be reckoned with in a male world. For this reason, perhaps Elizabeth was equally alluring.

I think it was because when Eleanor could have chosen to sit back and be worshipped and admired for what she already was -- a queen -- she wanted more. (Vs. Anne Boleyn, who had to struggle for acceptance and ultimately failed, and Elizabeth, who had to wage guerilla warfare, almost, to stay alive.) She wanted an independent voice, to be honored not just for her looks or her piety but her abilities and her independence. And that led her to make foolish errors of judgment, as it does all of us today. She has come down to us as a very human creature -- warts and all -- not just a figurehead. And for those of us with an interest in history, to find someone in that era, in which women played more restricted roles, traditionally, challenging the status quo is particularly intriguing, I think. Just a theory!

Suzanne wrote: "Mine just shipped from the UK -- should be here by the end of the week in which case I'll read it next weekend.
The Lute Player is v. good, but I never really think of it as a book about Eleanor. ..."
True, but it is the second of a duo, the first, Queen in Waiting ,( Eleanor the Queen is the US, and I think less relevant/good title) is the one that really sets the scene and delineates Eleanor's early and middle life

Barbara, Queen in Waiting is a title that's been used for the book, but it's currently released in the UK under the title Eleanor the Queen as well. My Corgi edition, published around 1972, just goes under the title Eleanor. I don't think Queen in Waiting has been used as a title since the early 70s, when Jean Plaidy released a book with the same title about Caroline of Ansbach. Absolutely, this book delineates the scene; I just don't see The Lute Player as a sequel, but more as a book revolving around Eleanor's son rather than Eleanor herself. (In the same way that Crown of Aloes, The King's Pleasure and the Concubine are set in the same era and while they may feature some of the same characters, focus on very different protagonists: Isabella of Castile, Catherine of Aragon and Anne Boleyn. (Interesting, actually -- three authors I can think of have tackled fictional lives of both Henry VIII's first two queens, even though most readers, I think, end up either pro-Anne or anti-Anne. I'm thinking of Lofts, Plaidy and Philippa Gregory.)

Suzanne wrote: "I think it was because when Eleanor could have chosen to sit back and be worshipped and admired for what she already was -- a queen -- she wanted more. (Vs. Anne Boleyn, who had to struggle for acc..."

That is as good a theory as any I have heard. :-)
I think the points most notable is that she was 'human' and that those of us who are interested in history can't resist a person who can speak to us from so far back in the past.
I think also, women's battles have never truly changed, albeit, they are less severe in the modern day. After all, if our husbands don't like us we need not fear losing our heads...well, not in the literal sense anyway.

Eleanor, for me, made herself a force to be reckoned with, made herself stand out in the pages of history, made herself a woman to be remembered, and, in the end, isn't that what we all want? ;-)

Suzanne, good point about the Plaidy Q in W , I never thought of that . I get so cross about new and almost always less good titles that I missed a sensible pragmatic reason !

I'm reading The Queen's Pawn by Christy English, which is about Eleanor and Richard's intended bride; I'm enjoying it as a story but I think the author has probably taken too many liberties with the known/accepted timeline, knowing it couldn't have happened that way makes it more fiction than HF for me.

Misfit wrote: "There's also this one, but I haven't read it yet. Had it out from the library once but I got sick-tracked.

"

ohhh no, it's a wall-banger!!!

There's a self-pubbed Eleanor one called Power of a Woman by Robert Fripp I know self-pubs can be a bit iffy, but this one has an endorsement by Melissa Snell, who is a medieval scholar and educator. Good reviews at Amazon too. http://www.amazon.com/Power-Woman-Mem... I haven't read it, I'm just tossing it into the mix.

sounds interesting Elizabeth, thanks!!

Sharon Penman's series led me to so much other reading a out Eleanor it is unbelievable. Great place to start and fall in love with a bunch of characters. This start took me all over England on an amazing adventure. No better place to start in my opinion.

every single one of you guys are going crazy over penman. i hope she's good because i've already bought when christ and his saints slept. im going back to pakistan and the other books will not be available there so i'm gonna buy the other two books from here (dubai) too and if they are not good, mark my words you guys are gona pay the cost of that because books are hell expensive here in dubai! :P

i'll ship them over and also charge the shipping to you.

ok that was like ummm the non serious part. i also saw alison weir's eleanor of acquatine. i think it's a biography. but 1st i will read the penman triology and then read weir! and i have no idea why everyone is hating captive queen. well i will not read it since its already hated by so many people! although i thought that since weir is so good at writing non-fiction and then she wrote innocent traitor which probably the whole world loved! i own a copy but since there is a long list of "books-i-want-to-read-and-i-own-", i think think it will have to wait! plus i don't want to rush since a friend of mine from goodreads recommonded it!

is this how you spell recommended?! lol

suffiyan wrote: "is this how you spell recommended?! lol"

Yes. I did not care for the Weir book one bit, and frankly wonder if she either *subbed* it out or is something she wrote in her much younger days and dragged out to sell as Eleanor is so popular. Who knows?