Outlander Series discussion

Okay, for those of you finished with ECHO...How do you feel about Jenny and how do you think she'll behave in the next book? Do you think her and Claire will be friends or foe?

I found that Jenny was kinda (understatement) cold with Claire. I just hope they'll be friends again, especially since she came back to America with her brother... Hope everything will turn fine with her. Oh and I loved her comment about William when she saw him after he realized Jamie was his father... "Like father like son"

Alex wrote: "I found that Jenny was kinda (understatement) cold with Claire. I just hope they'll be friends again, especially since she came back to America with her brother... Hope everything will turn fine wi..."

me too, I thought that was funny..but I don't know how she will react to her "new" life in America. She is so used to being "the boss lady". Do you think she can be a silent bystander in the chaos of Jamie and Claire's life? It would be nice if she and Claire could join forces... a dynamic duo... and place chaos into order....but I don't know, the mean green jealousy bug may take over Jenny.

Is there some reason [that I don't remember:] why Claire and Jamie just don't tell Jenny about the time travel. Isn't the reason Jenny doesn't like Claire is because she thinks Claire deserted Jamie for all those years? Doesn't Ian know?

I think the jealousy bug is already well in place.

Cliare left Jamie for 20 years breaking his heart and leaving him during such turmoil. Comes back takes him away from Lalybroach. In America she becomes a 2nd Mum to young Ian. And in Echo Jenny believes Claire won't cure Ian. She clearly has issues with Claire and I think she will see Claire's marriage to LJ as another betrayl. Claire's future is going to have a BIG problem and I think her name will be JENNY!

Judy wrote: "Is there some reason [that I don't remember:] why Claire and Jamie just don't tell Jenny about the time travel. Isn't the reason Jenny doesn't like Claire is because she thinks Claire deserted Jam..."

I don't understand that either, it would be a simple fix. Didn't they tell everyone in a round the bout way at some point? or does the family still think she is a fairy?.....my memory is fuzzy!


What I don't understand is when Bree goes to Lallybroch, why don't they question the fact that she doesn't have a French accent? She _has_a Boston accent....

They did tell Jenny and the rest of the family, when they returned to Scotland. I don't think the family believed her.

Claire definitely told the whole family in Scotland. It was one of those events that was so rushed that you wondered if it happened.

So Jenny knows. Maybe she will be softer towards Claire; although I think it will be Jenny who will be up in arms over the LJ thing.

She and Jaime should have one of their knock-down-drag-outs over the whole affair. Can't you see him chewing her out, telling her to mind her own business?

I was thinking she and Rachel might clash.

I couldn't figure out if she told Jenny or if it was something she was screaming in her own thoughts while Jenny was laying into her....but then if she did actually say the words at the time I doubt they would have took given Jenny's Mental state at the time because of how Ian was suffering

I think Jenny resents Claire she had it so easy for all those years when Claire was gone. Jenny has NOT had it easy at all -- even after Claire and Jamie left for America to get young Ian. I can see that perhaps Jenny sees Claire as somewhat the source of many of Jamie's problems. Think about your own relationships with your own sisters in law. . .

I don't think that coming to America is going to be an easy transition for anyone, Jamie, Jenny, Claire OR Ian.

Jenny definitely knows that
Claire is not a fairy and it was explained to the whole family where she came from. I don't think Jenny believes her. She accused Claire of being "Heartless" in Echo - for not being able to heal Ian and for leaving Jaime. Claire pointed out that she was "living in America 200 years from now". Unfortunately it seems that Jenny is hanging on to resentments and probably will have problems with Claire in the next book. Jaime even mentions that it would be uncomfortable for Jenny to live with them so she is going to live with Fergus and Marsali.

I wonder if Jaime warned Claire that he would be bringing Jenny with him from Scotland? I can't remember reading that in Echo...

He told her in a letter but, I think Claire got that letter after she was told he was dead. I think Jenny coming to America is a great set up for some good drama. I can definietly see her having trouble living with Marsali and Fergus and adjusting to living in town in a newspaper press. I don't think she has liked Claire since left Jamie and went back to the 20th Century. At the very least she will never trust her.

Yep, good drama. I'm looking forward to it.

Leslie wrote: "He told her in a letter but, I think Claire got that letter after she was told he was dead. I think Jenny coming to America is a great set up for some good drama. I can definietly see her having ..."

Don't you think that deep down Jenny knows that Claire is 100% devoted to her brother as he is to her?
I would love for Jamie and Jenny to have a throw down!

I used to love Jenny......I was disappointed when that relationship fell apart!

I think Jenny and Claire are going to have to join forces. Jamie is on the run again. And now that the Brits know that Jamie isn't dead, the marriage between Claire and LJ is not legal. So, Claire is not out-of-the-woods either. I think she and Jamie will have to escape to 'somewhere' with LJ's help. Where that leaves Jenny, I don't know. She's Ian's mother. Ian will have to take care of her.

As far as what Jenny said to Claire...she was upset. I didn't like the coldness that fell over Lallybroch upon Claire's return. It didn't make sense to me at all. Or the strain between Jenny and Claire. That was already taken care of. Pfft, who knows?

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Renee wrote: "I think Jenny and Claire are going to have to join forces. Jamie is on the run again. And now that the Brits know that Jamie isn't dead, the marriage between Claire and LJ is not legal. So, Claire ..."

I don't remember the straing between Jenny and Claire being taken care of. I know they had a talk but I didn't really get the impression that were freinds again.

There were still resentments between Jenny and Claire. Even when J&C were living in NC and Ian and Jenny were writing regularly, there was one letter where Ian started to write to Jaime about marriage responsibility and crossed it out and wrote that he was happy that Jaime found Claire again. So, the Lallybrach folks aren't completely happy about the J&C situation. I know Claire would like to be friends with Jenny...not sure Jenny can ever let go of the past. We'll see...

The strain was taken care of back in Voyager. Jenny did not tell Claire about L and summoned L to Lallybroch because she thought it would make Claire go away. Remember? They had it out then. She told Claire all the things about not wanting her to come back and take Jamie away again. Echo was just a inexplicable rehash of that.

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Lady, there were no indications at all about any strain with Claire. It was Jamie and Jenny that had the strain because of Ian. Nothing to do with Claire and Jenny.

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I thought Claire sort of got lumped in there by virtue of being Jaime's wife and galavanting around the world looking for the lost son while Jenny was stuck at home worrying.

I also thought that even when she and Claire patched it up in Voyager she was still just generally a bit resentful, even if it wasn't logical to be so. She and Claire could have exchanged letters but they never did.

I think Jenny and Claire need a good old catfight, lol. Scratch, punch, pull hair, until they roll away laughing. They are both tough, tough women, but it seems like that would work better than trying to be civilized would to clear the air. They obviously have a lot of mixed feelings for eachother. I like to hope they can still be friends, but both are use to being in charge to a certain degree, and when you get 2 such strong personalities together, things can get interesting, lol.

Yeah, I must admit I hope the two, once and for all sort out their differences. Certainly a good lead into some interesting drama and from there who knows - DG is very good at twists and complications. Who knows - maybe Bree and Roger return which adds another dimension to the differences of these two women, which helps Jenny to realise that Claire, Bree, Roger, Jem and Maggie are not 'your average french relative'. I love all this!!!

I think a few things on this topic. I do not think that Jenny never intentionally meant to hurt Claire. Unfortunately she has. With the exception of the short time they spent together home in domestic affairs Jenny has no realization of the mountains that Claire has moved for her brother, family, the men of Lallybroch, and so forth. So many times did I want to punch Jenny in the nose myself but for what really? Can you blame her for feeling so despite especially when you’re forced to sit and be idle? Jenny will now get a chance to see Claire in a whole new light (outside of the predicament Claire sits in at the moment, which would be a great thread if it is not started). I think Jenny was introduce and has been developed to be so stubborn and extremely strong because Jenny was really only compared to her brother so I think she should “think like he”, or “see like he” but she is “blind”. I think the best word is naive and it has left her with animosity towards Claire. Completely natural! Jenny I feel is the type of person that you would want fighting on your side and not against and apologize will never come a dime a dozen but will fight for Claire to no avail. Jenny will apologize. Clair knows better.

Heather wrote: "I think a few things on this topic. I do not think that Jenny never intentionally meant to hurt Claire. Unfortunately she has. With the exception of the short time they spent together home in domes..."

I think Jenny is going to be the voice of reason in Claire's current predicament...

Diana has posted some new excerpts on the Jenny & Claire scene on Compuserve . . . I think someone posted the links on another thread.

Of course Jenny and Claire will not remain estranged.
Yes, they're chatting in the kitchen I think in those excerpts. I hope Jenny gives Claire hell though over Lord John.

I wish we'd gotten more time with Jenny and Jamie. They had so much to talk about. Instead we're lummoxed with LJ and naked Ben Franklin.

Ugh, not more LJ . . . :)

I've ended up liking LJ a lot after I listened to his audiobooks. Now I appreciate him more and I really am looking forward to see how he handles this whole mess.

I decided the reason that I can't completetly love LJ is because he is essentially Jamie's counterpoint rival. (The handsome, intelligent, honorable, brave, refined English gentleman vs. the Handsome, intelligetn, honorable, brave, rugged Scot) I remain loyal to Jamie!!

Yes but you have to remember that LJ is not in love with Claire he is in love with Jamie.So to me he is Claire's rival not Jamie's.

That's right Susie, Claire and Lord John both make goo-goo eyes at Jamie.

To me he's an overdone character in the Jamie/Claire story and I want less LJ and more of everyone else. I have no intention of reading the LJ books just because DG insists upon foisting him upon us in the Outlander series. He bores me and has nothing of that entertaining style that Jamie does.

And, as someone pointed out to me and I agree, I think that he took advantage of Claire on that drunken night. I hope Jamie wallops him for that.

Shell wrote: "Heather wrote: "I think a few things on this topic. I do not think that Jenny never intentionally meant to hurt Claire. Unfortunately she has. With the exception of the short time they spent togeth..."

I really think so too! The outsider always sees better.

I'm also not a big fan of LJ I agree there was way too much of him in Echo!

May Contains spoilers…
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I really think there was as much of LJ because of William. I happen to really like LG and loved his three books. I read them waiting on BOSAA. Different than what I thought to expect but truthfully I was just geeking for Jamie. When Jamie finally showed up in the books it was like he was guest starring and I heard audience applause in my head. (Yes I have lost me head) Point is he married Claire to save her from being imprisoned, I get that. What’s to lose? What I don’t get is consummating it. What for?? Claire and LJ being together gives me mixed feelings also but the book was written to introduce many more story lines for more books to come. I look forward to those story lines unfolding.

ALSO, I can't wait until Jamie sees Claire. He knew she married LJ for protection before he left Fergus’s to get Claire but LJ tells him about the consummating (for better choice of words) as they have been on the run. Jamie did not know that when he seen Claire at the Inn. Jamie needs to lay into her!!! Can anybody think anything better than a belt!!! From Jamie’s perspective I think he will be able to understand LJ's desires easier before Claire's. I can't wait!

Nah, I don't think he'll be that angry with Claire. She was drunk and in mourning. LJ is the one who came to her. He shouldn't have taken advantage of her state of mind. I hope Jamie punches him. But he probably won't. After the Claire/LJ bit I've decided to give up guessing what will happen.

Carolyn F. wrote: "I've ended up liking LJ a lot after I listened to his audiobooks. Now I appreciate him more and I really am looking forward to see how he handles this whole mess."

I'm with you, Carolyn!

I don't mean as competition for Claire, I mean as competition for readers!

I'm getting very frusterated with Jenny. I just got to the part where she asks Claire to heal Ian, and of course Claire doesn't have the power to heal him. Was Jenny always such a you-know-what? I remember liking her at the beginning of the series. Even when all the Laoghaire stuff happened I almost could see he point of view. I'm really struggling with her now though. I know she's grief-stricken and scared, but what more does she want? They straight out told her that Claire was a time traveler and that's how she knew so much. Even her son, Young Ian, stood behind the story. Yet she wants to stick to her guns that Claire is a witch and would really sit and watch someone she loves die. Ugh. So frusterated with her! I really needed to get that off my chest, lol. Thanks for letting me vent ;)

Cynthia wrote: "Okay, for those of you finished with ECHO...How do you feel about Jenny and how do you think she'll behave in the next book? Do you think her and Claire will be friends or foe?"

I've always really liked Jenny's character, despite everything that's happened between her and Claire. I certainly didn't like how she's handled some things, but I've always been able to understand WHY she's acted the way she has.

I think we tend to forget how little Jenny and the rest of Jamie's family really know about Claire, and about where she was and what she was doing for those 20 years they were apart. If we didn't have all the background information we do, we'd probably feel and behave much like Jenny did: We'd want to see our brother move on with his life and settled with someone so he wouldn't be lonely. We'd be wary of a long-lost love coming back out of the blue, with really no explanation, and taking our brother far away into danger again. And we'd be suspicious - having no real understanding of modern medicine - why Claire can fix up Jamie when he's shot and cure so many others, yet not be able to help Ian. It isn't that surprising that a woman grieving her husband and scared of what the future holds for her will get a little paranoid and believe Claire is just being vengeful.

As far as moving forward? It looks to me like the seeds for real reconciliation are there between Jenny and Claire. I think Jenny will be settling down in America with them, at least for the time being. I think there's a possibility she will remarry, and I am really really excited about her and Young Ian not being so far away from each other.

**Shelly wrote: And we'd be suspicious - having no real understanding of modern medicine - why Claire can fix up Jamie when he's shot and cure so many others, yet not be able to help Ian.**

Thank you for that reminder Shelly. I was thinking since they told her about the time travel thing that she should understand. But of course she saw Claire work "magic" before so doesn't comprehend that it's not that easy. I'm glad I can get back some of my like and respect of Jenny after reading your point of view.

Cheri wrote: "**Shelly wrote: And we'd be suspicious - having no real understanding of modern medicine - why Claire can fix up Jamie when he's shot and cure so many others, yet not be able to help Ian.**

Than..."



Me, too. I was really frustrated with Jenny, but now that you made that point I feel better about the whole thing.

I think all hell is going to break loose when she finds out about Claire and LJG although I do think and hope DG helps mend the relationship between Jenny and Claire.

What a great discussion!
I've always liked Jenny- she's strong, and capable, and not really un-like Claire in many many ways. There's just- someone said it earlier- Jenny hasn't ever been away from "her" world of Lallybroch. She's known incredible loss and hardship, true, but the rest of the world has always been "out there". I think Jenny harbours a lot of resentment towards Claire for being "free" to explore that world- and I think that's why Jenny was SO excited to sail, and see France, and speak French, and go to America. I wonder if the change of setting, if seeing Fraser's Ridge and seeing how Claire is the "Lady" there, will affect Jenny's views of Claire herself. Maybe when she sees that, in her own way, Claire is just as bound, Jenny will accept her more, and get over her loss. In a way, Jenny and Claire have both lost husbands AND children over the years, in different ways but with the sames sudden shocks of loss.

1/Claire "lost" Frank in the future, when she came thru the stones the first time, and lost him further to mistresses and then his death: Jenny lost Ian, and "lost" Jamie again and again to Claire and war.

2/Jenny "lost" Young Ian, when he ran away to join Jaime, "lost" him again to the Mowhawk, and seems to feel she "lost" him to Claire: Claire "lost" Brianna and all her family through the stones

The question of William might actually be something that brings all the characters together. Jenny might be an excellent person to reach out to him and save him from his confusion. She's a strong, loving, motherly aunt- who better to take someone who has suddenly "inherited" an entire life, only to find their real life has been an elaborate lie? Plus, with her being Jamie's sister, she has both the connection AND the remove to comfort William.

I don't think Jenny is going to care much if Claire went to 'England' as she lied and said, or the fact that she admitted to going back to the future. Jenny's original issue was that Claire left at all. Jenny believes that when you take a man as your husband it is 'til death do you part'. Jamie was alive and Claire left him, period. It doesn't matter where she went. And if Jamie had died, she made it clear that Claire should have come back to the family. She resented that Claire was able to flee the situation while they all starved. She considered it selfish and self-serving. She made herself very clear. Yes, Claire being from the future answered why she couldnt' save Ian, but it doesn't fix the original problem.

On top of that, I believe that William will bring the two of them closer. So will time. But I'm pretty sure Jenny isn't going to handle Claire's infidelity with LJG well. She is very protective and loyal (to Jamie, Ian, and her children) and I think she's going to once again feel that Claire is just not up to snuff int he wife department.

If nothing else, it will be an interesting storyline in the next book.

Who do you think could play Jenny in the Outlander Movie?

Wendy F... I could not agree more.

Leea... I really do not know. When I see her in my minds eye she is a young Jean Simmons type crossed with Cyd Charisse in Brigadoon.

How about Laura Fraser http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0292182/

I want Jenny and Claire to work together and become friends again. I want them to hash it all out, but I want them to be united. I think this next book is going to take us on an emotional roller coaster. It's going to be all about family/blood ties...

Know what's funny? I always picture DG Herself as Jenny when I read the series...

I think Jenny will forgive Claire and they will work it out. I mean, Jenny will need claires help settling in America.

I'll keep looking for someone who fits Jenny. Haha Jen! DG does fit.

Jenny's always been a hard one to cast for me, because she's so small. I've bounced people around in my mind before but they are never quite right. They need to have the frame and hair of Kristen Kruek, but she's obviously got a bit of asian in her, lol.

To me Jeeny seems Ally Sheedyish both the young version and the older how Ally Sheedy is now. Of course Ally Sheedy could never play the young one in a movie at this point but 20 years ago...