The History Book Club discussion

For those of you who would like to discuss your travels and discuss some of the outings and places that you have visited. It is my hope that these travels have some historical significance.



We will post the first travel post to this thread. If you find a way to link to some photos of your trip and visit, so much the better.

Enjoy,

Bentley

This is the first entry from Jim who requested this thread. We have moved it here from the Off Topic Thread:

I’d like to suggest a completely separate line of discussion and something that I think may be worthy of a completely different root thread. I’ll leave it up to the moderators….

My thought was to start a discussion thread surrounding visits we’ve made to historical places (if there’s already one going please direct me). I’ve started filling my National Park Passport and thought I’d be interested in where others have visited. I’m going to detail my last visit and I’d really love to hear about others. Again, if there’s a better place for this discussion please let me know.

My last real historical visit was to the Williamsburg Colonial area with small side trips to Jamestown and Yorktown, an area they call the Colonial Triangle. I did not go with the intent of writing about it so I didn’t take great notes so bear with the lack of detail. Unfortunately, the weekend we picked turned out to be rainy so that may have modified my mood quite a bit but I was pretty disappointed. Please note that the colonial area and all the attending buildings are not part of the National Park System. They are owned by a foundation and the prices are representative of a private collection. The cheapest entrance fee was $36 (cheaper during the winter) and it went two levels up from there depending on the access you wanted. You don’t need to pay the fee to walk the common area (we didn’t) but if you want to enter the buildings you need to.

We went in early December to walk some of the private homes along Duke of Gloucester Street who had decorated for the season and, of course, they were great. They were all done in period decorations including even placing red and green apples in cut outs in the outside walls of one of the homes. Despite the rain there were long lines and it took most of the day to get through four of the six or seven houses that had decorated. The Garden Club volunteers were diligent in trying to keep people moving and the homes clean (lots of mud) but I wouldn’t want to have to clean up afterwards. This was a fee separate from the park fee but wasn’t all that expensive ($15 per person for all the homes if my memory serves). The fee went to the Garden Club as a fund raiser. These are actual private homes along Duke of Gloucester Street that are either rented or owned by individuals and families. Again, if my memory serves, the homes are owned by the Foundation and rented to the families and individuals but I may be wrong here.

Probably the best part of the walk along Duke of Gloucester Street was the restaurant that sits about half way between the Capitol and the Palace Green called the King’s Arm Tavern. Everything there is in period costume (we even ate next to a table where Thomas Jefferson was eating with some guests. (Rather timely given the next book and he looked a lot like the book cover – )

The guy playing Jefferson lived in one of the homes being toured and really got into the act and apparently is or has been a professional actor and plays Jefferson in local reenactments. Maybe it was the cold, maybe it was the rain, but the food and hot chocolate were great and it really wasn’t all that expensive given everything else we had to pay.

I think my dismay at the price and entrance fees goes back to a time when I was dating my wife (23 years ago) and we wanted to visit the New Market Battlefield in New Market, Virginia. We were rather poor at the time and neither of us had the fee in our pockets to get in and it got me to thinking that our national history is only available to those that can pay to learn it. I’m not the most liberal person you’ll ever meet but this is where what liberalism I have takes over. Our national history should be for everyone. It’s in my best interest to make sure my neighbor’s kids are educated and limiting this part of their education to what they can pay doesn’t seem appropriate. Jamestown and Yorktown were rather cheap ($10 each for my wife and I got us into both) but we’re doing a lot better than we were 23 years ago. My daughter and her husband who are now just starting out may not find it as cheap. Those are my two cents and I’ll get off the stump now.

I’m not much for watching travel shows but I would like to hear about other visits people have made to historic places including those who liked their visit to Williamsburg (maybe I missed something that would have made it more enjoyable). In March we’re going to PA for a visit and plan on visiting Steamtown NHS in Scranton (http://www.nps.gov/stea/index.htm). If anyone’s been there let me know.

Thanks, Bentley and yes, historical sites are my only interest.

Speaking of travel and your Passport. Have you seen the big black Passport book from the National Park Service. It is great...I love mine..so much more room and you can purchase extra sheets.

So, tell me what these travel passports are. They sound fun. Where can you get them?

And thanks for setting up this thread, Bentley. I agree it should be for historical sites. That is the thing we all have in common!

Elizabeth,

It is a lot of fun and it is called Passport to your National Parks (Explorer Edition).

It contains tabs for all of the regions:

North Atlantic
Mid Atlantic
National Capital
Southeast
Midwest
Southwest
Rocky Mountains
Western (Hawaii, American Samoa, Guam are included with Arizona, California, Nevada)
Pac NW and Alaska

There are write-ups on all of the parks and where they are located, address, telephone numbers, web site addresses, places to put regional stamps, and all official cancellations.

Each National Park Site has its own stamp or stamps and you place them in the appropriate location with date which marks your visit.

Loads of fun.

http://www.eparks.com/store/product/5...

http://www.eparks.com/eparks/passport...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National...

Is international locations OK? I haven't visited the United States yet :(

Yes as long as they have some historical significance.

Bentley wrote: "Elizabeth,

It is a lot of fun and it is called Passport to your National Parks (Explorer Edition).

It contains tabs for all of the regions:

North Atlantic
Mid Atlantic
National Capital
Southeast..."

Oh, I am so getting one of these. Way cool!

I also use the date stamp that one uses in the "Passport" to date all the paper I aquire at each site or any books I may buy there. It's a great way to document your travels.

Elizabeth S wrote: "Bentley wrote: "Elizabeth,

It is a lot of fun and it is called Passport to your National Parks (Explorer Edition).

It contains tabs for all of the regions:

North Atlantic
Mid Atlantic
National C..."

It really is..you have no idea (lol).

John wrote: "I also use the date stamp that one uses in the "Passport" to date all the paper I aquire at each site or any books I may buy there. It's a great way to document your travels. "

Oooo, that sounds useful too.

Now I have another question. Should I get separate passports for my husband and myself? If we'll always be going together, would it be redundant? I did notice the kid's version, which is on the definite list for my children.

It is hard to tell...sometimes the kids like their own..mine is for me (lol)..if your husband and you travel together..I would assume one would be enough.

Bentley wrote: "Speaking of travel and your Passport. Have you seen the big black Passport book from the National Park Service. It is great...I love mine..so much more room and you can purchase extra sheets. "

Bentley,

I have the smaller version of the Pastport and will probably move up to the larger one the next time I come across it. I didn’t realize until much later that the smaller one has only a few slots per section of the country. I’m near the end for the mid-Atlantic section already and I just got it last year.

I encourage anyone to get them (can’t remember the price) but the stamps are free when you visit the various parks and sites (usually in the book store section) and the stickers that go with each are less than $5 for 8 of them.


BTW, Elizabeth - yes, I agree with Bentley, if you tend to visit things at different times I would definately get one for each.

Back in the early '90's we first stayed at a resort in Playa del Carmen, Mexico and really enjoyed it. We then took a few Caribbean cruises, visiting a lot of the islands in the Western and Southern Caribbean.

Getting tired of cruising, we then stayed in Puerto Plata, Dominican Republic for a week on the beach. One of my favorite vacations was 12 days in Key West, FL. We rented a car at the airport in Ft. Lauderdale and drove down Rt1 the 100 miles or so to the southern-most point... tasting key-lime pie everywhere we stopped.

We did a 21 day trip to the Mediterranean which included a 14 day cruise back in 2007. It included most of the vacation islands in Greece, including a week in Athens and a few nights at the beautiful island of Lesvos. The cruise included the vacation islands in Greece, the pyramids in Egypt, the beautiful Mosques in Turkey, and a short stop in Amsterdam. The tulips were amusing!

We really enjoyed our Puerto Rico trip back in April. Lots of beach and reading time there as well.

Last night we got together to discuss plans for another Greece trip for late August early September timeframe. This time we plan on visiting Skiathos. We are probably adding Venice and Paris to that as well.

Joe..you will certainly love Venice..and there is a lot of history there. Some great travel...we are trying to make this area on historical travel and places that you got to go to that have some historical significance...when you were in Key West..did you visit any of Hemingway's haunts...visiting the pyramids of Egypt must have been amazing...what did you think of them...are they even more majestic and unbelievable in person? It sounds like you like the cruises...I love boats but I like to get where I am going directly; so I have never thought that I would like them.. I think I am too impatient (lol). However, every person who has ever gone on a cruise loves them. All of my travel had been by planes, trains, automobile.

Jim..that is why I got the version that I did..the other just did not have enough slots and the one that I got is like a binder - you can always add additional pages too. It has beaucoup slots. And you can buy extra pages.

Bentley wrote: "Joe..you will certainly love Venice..and there is a lot of history there. Some great travel...we are trying to make this area on historical travel and places that you got to go to that have some h..."

While we were in Key West, we stopped at Truman's little White House. As you can imagine, I really enjoyed that. And yes, we toured the Hemingway house. We ended up naming one of our kittens after one of the Hemingway cats who was named after the American poet, Archibald Macleish.

But I was shocked during our visit to see the pyramids in Giza. Water is essential to life in the desert, but the Nile was full with their trash. Even their dead horses and cattle were thrown into the Nile. I wasn't prepared for that. It all put a dampener on the magnificence of the pyramids.

Very interesting Joe...so is your cat named Archibald or Macleish (lol)? How large was the little White House?

What a horrible image about the Nile? A shame really.

Bentley wrote: "Very interesting Joe...so is your cat named Archibald or Macleish (lol)? How large was the little White House?

We call him Archie. lol

The Little White House was really interesting. I posted a link to the web site. His tiny writing desk that he did his work on, the famous poker table, the pool table and bar, and numerous other stuff were there on display just as they were when he was there. It was a real treat.

http://www.trumanlittlewhitehouse.com

Great link and say hello to Archie.

They sound very interesting Jbunniii.

Jbunniii wrote: "Some of the most interesting historical sites I have visited in the U.S. have been in the "Four Corners" region:

Canyon de Chelly National Monument Reflecting one of the longest continuously inha..."


Jbunniii;

The Four Corners area is on my "Bucket List" of places to visit before I go to the other side. Thanks for giving me some insights.

I have been to the Pyramids and the Great Wall of China. I would much rather read about history than visit a place that isn't much more than a pile of rocks but I must say I was impressed by both locations.

My first thought when I saw the Pyramids is how they weren't as big as I thought they would be. We were dropped off by a taxi on a sidewalk on the outskirts of Cairo. If you look in one direction you are looking at the streets, traffic and buildings of a modern city. Turn around and you are staring out at buildings thousands of years old sitting in the middle of a desert. It is truly a portal between two worlds. On the other side of the sidewalk is the desert. Looking past the sphinx toward the three big pyramids, I wasn't very impressed with their size. After we walked toward them for a while I realized my mind simply hadn't captured the scale of them, they are just further away than they had appeared. Walking into the largest pyramid you follow a short hallway about fifty meters long. There are two rooms that lead off of it, a small one where I understand the queen was buried and a larger one for the Pharaoh. I still can't wrap my mind around the effort that went into building something so large simply for the tomb of one man. Or was it?:)

The Great Wall affected me even more deeply than the pyramids. As I walked along the wall, I thought of the thousands of soldiers that had walked those same paths defending civilization against the barbarian hordes. (Actually, I am sure they were just waiting for their shift to be over so they could get back inside where it was warm, but still...) The Great Wall closely follows the contours of the land which, were I was walking, is very VERY steep. I don't know how they were able to build the wall under those conditions as the height of the wall doesn't seem to vary when measured perpendicular to the ground.

Erick wrote: "I have been to the Pyramids and the Great Wall of China. I would much rather read about history than visit a place that isn't much more than a pile of rocks but I must say I was impressed by both ..."

Yes, I remember riding in a bus around a rotary in the middle of a city with the pyramids in the background. Very surreal. It's like the sprawling city has ever been attempting to conquer the sand, but has reached it's limit.

Erick wrote: "I have been to the Pyramids and the Great Wall of China. I would much rather read about history than visit a place that isn't much more than a pile of rocks but I must say I was impressed by both ..."

I have also been to China a few times for long durations..and of course have visited the Great Wall. Very impressive.

I was lucky enough to be posted to Cyprus in 1995 as part of the United Nations and spent over 8 months there working and travelling all over the Island. Being part of the UN allowed me access to both sides (Greek & Turkish). I have placed a link below to show you some of the Castles that I managed to crawl all over.

Castles of Northern Cyprus

Quite neat Aussie Rick

Bentley wrote: "Quite neat Aussie Rick"

I had a great time and managed to volunteer for an archaeological dig on the site of an ancient Greek forum. There was a team from an Australian University at a place called Paphos in Cyprus and they were looking for labour so I put up my hand and spent a week shovelling dirt at the site. It was one of the best times I ever had but bloody hard work in the hot sun! I was hoping I would find an ancient Greek or Roman coin that I could keep, no such luck!

But with your love of history...the experience must have been unbeatable.

Bentley wrote: "But with your love of history...the experience must have been unbeatable.
"

It was great, the team leader presented me with a book on historical byzantium buildings in Cyprus. I was trying to find it in my library a little while ago for more details but can't seem to lay my hands on it at the moment. If I had the chance to do it again I'd spend a month there but I doubt my back could take the strain anymore!

In 2007, I spent nearly three months in and around Czech Republic. The experience was fascinating for me on several levels. I was able to visit Germany, which is where my Grandfather is from. As a history geek, Central Europe was astonishing. The previous semester I read about the Thirty Years' War, and the following semester I would be studying the Holocaust. Being able to visit the battlefields and the camps was special and haunting in a way I will never be able to describe. I enjoyed the art and architecture. Prague is one of the few European cities to survive the 20th century with architecture intact.
The only part of the trip which I regret was not being able to go to Istanbul, like I had originally planned. I love Byzantine history.

Angie wrote: "In 2007, I spent nearly three months in and around Czech Republic. The experience was fascinating for me on several levels. I was able to visit Germany, which is where my Grandfather is from. As ..."

Hi Angie,

That sounds great, I have heard a lot of good things about Prague and would love to visit there soon. I have visited Istanbul twice, but never had the chance to see a lot of the great buildings there although did see the massive old walls of Constantinople. I also love Byzantine history. I was telling Bentley about a book I was given from a university archaeological team digging in Cyprus. I finally found it buried in my library:

Byzantine and Medieval Cyprus by Gwynneth Der Parthog

Bentley wrote: "Erick wrote: "I have been to the Pyramids and the Great Wall of China. I would much rather read about history than visit a place that isn't much more than a pile of rocks but I must say I was impr..."

That must have been a very nice time. I wish I could have spent more time there experiencing the culture.

Angie wrote: "In 2007, I spent nearly three months in and around Czech Republic. The experience was fascinating for me on several levels. I was able to visit Germany, which is where my Grandfather is from. As ..."

I also spent some time in Prague which is as you say a beautiful and preserved city. Old Town is absolutely exquisite. The architecture and the buildings are out of this world.

Here is a photo tour of Old Town in Prague.

http://goeasteurope.about.com/od/czec...

And then there is Prague Castle:

http://www.prague.net/gallery/prague-...

Late for my beauty sleep but re: the pyramids, I happen to have a flat not so far from them and I still get a catch in breath every time I see them... till now. Having said that I do have a soft spot for Zoser's step pyramid in Saqqara.
My wife has been to the Great Wall and certainly her pix are stunning, her good luck to have a business meeting nearby, a couple of year's ago.
Prague I did find architecturally attractive but pure Kafka to get out of en route to Riga. Very frustrating indeed and at the time a pain I wished was elsewhere.
Riga... and Tallinn have old Hanseatic cities that are worth visiting and less Kafkaesque to deal with, though the beer and balsams is better in Riga! well, in Latvia. I still love my Baltic cousins though.

Beer, baltic cousins, Kafka and balsams...trying to find out where the flow was going..I suspect you did not like Prague or was it the people themselves..hard to tell from your post.

I had a great time and loved it...but I find something to like in most places. (smile)

Pyramids in the background...how romantic and mysterious all at the same time.

Okay, now I'm drooling with jealousy. :) It is all a someday for me right now. Thanks for sharing!

I loved Oaxaca and wished I hadn't been so sick. Mexico is wonderful.

I've lived in and travelled the American West and Southwest extensived and just wished the people matched the spectacular landscapes.

Coming from the American West it was an shock to see the Eastern US and the real forest, so beautiful. A visit to the Shiloh battlefield in Tennessee gave me a real appreciation of the chaos of the battles of the American Civil War; how could anyone have seen their opponents or controlled an army there is still beyond me.

In Europe my travels have been much more limited, but I was charmed by Paris and stunned by the Alpes.

John wrote: "I loved Oaxaca and wished I hadn't been so sick. Mexico is wonderful.

I've lived in and travelled the American West and Southwest extensived and just wished the people matched the spectacular l..."

Two natural sights have left me breathless and amazed.

One is the Grand Canyon. My breath caught the first time I laid eyes on it and I had to remind myself to breathe. Its amazing how one river can wreak so much grandeur through the tear down process of erosion.

The second natural site was the Mediterranean. Being able to gaze out upon the blue waters made me think of all the events that had taken place on them during the last three thousand years.

Bentley wrote: "Beer, baltic cousins, Kafka and balsams...trying to find out where the flow was going..I suspect you did not like Prague or was it the people themselves..hard to tell from your post.

I had a great..."

I guess what spoilt Prague for me (though the Mucha museum was great) was getting simple things done; while the rest of eastern Europe moved on after the Warsaw Pact and the Soviet Union imploded, Czech Republic seemed caught in a time warp. In Prague I could not buy a coach ticket to Riga with an international credit card, across the border in Poland at a roadside cafe I could pay by KNET from my Kuwait account. In truth the whole episode was much more funky than that. On a separate occasion, transiting through the airport, gypsies smoking weed at the flight gate rather surprised me.

I am surprised by how much I am hearing about Prague. I guess I am going to have to move it up my list of places to go. I must say, however, that reading this thread is making my list of places to see grow almost as fast as my "to-read" list!

Erick wrote: "I am surprised by how much I am hearing about Prague. I guess I am going to have to move it up my list of places to go. I must say, however, that reading this thread is making my list of places t..."

Well put, Erick. And it is so much easier to take things off of the to-read list than the to-go list! :)

I very much loved Angie's description of the Grand Canyon: "My breath caught the first time I laid eyes on it and I had to remind myself to breathe. Its amazing how one river can wreak so much grandeur through the tear down process of erosion."

The Grand Canyon is truly marvelous. It is a different kind of history than we usually discuss here. It is history and art. I've been several times. I wanted to both sit and drink in the majesty of it and at the same time run to another location from which to appreciate it. I love how each view gives you a different picture.

Elizabeth S wrote: "Erick wrote: "I am surprised by how much I am hearing about Prague. I guess I am going to have to move it up my list of places to go. I must say, however, that reading this thread is making my li..."

Grand canyon! another one on the list!

Well, here's one from a totally different part of the world: I just finished a weeklong trek to what they call Ciudad Perdida, the Lost City, in Colombia. It's the ruins of an old Tairona Indian city, way up in the jungle (and mountains). The Taironas moved there as European invaders approached, and eventually abandoned it for hazy reasons, although their ancestors the Kogi Indians, never fully conquered, still own and live on that land today. (And are thoroughly unimpressed by the hippie backpackers constantly staggering through their territory, although they're willing to take our money in exchange.)

The Taironas don't get the attention that the Aztecs, Maya and Inca do, and there's very little literature about them, but they were large, sophisticated, rich and, again, like the Maya, never exactly conquered. It was very cool to visit the ruins of Ciudad Perdida and learn a tiny bit about them.

Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tayrona

Pleasant blog about the trek, not written by me (my pics aren't yet sorted): http://www.travelblog.org/South-Ameri...

The Panama Canal locks operation is also interesting to see. The boats come in way below your level and in a few minutes they are raised about 60' to enter the next level of the lock. There are no pumps to move the water, it is all gravity fed. Some amazing engineering that is over 100 years old. Of course you see the opposite operation at different times during the day, the canal operates twelve hours in one direction i.e. Pacific to Atlantic and then twelve hours in the opposite direction.

Who said travel was not stimulating! I am not badly travelled, thank God! However, so much in the world still to see! At least I won't run out of goals any time soon.

As to so much about Prague, my take is that contention is in some ways stimulating. That is, several people have had quite differing views on the place, though nobody has dismissed the heights that Bohemian architecture can reach.

Not detracting from that, has anyone seen the Würzburg Residenz? That is a WOW... and the chance to drink Frankenwein! The Schönborn family might have taxed their subjects out of quite a lot of cash, but Tiepolo's ceilings, thank God they were not all bombed, are something to see... and the chapel.... is breathtaking. Maybe there should be another category on favourite things to include favourite buildings!
Tchuss!

I agree with Harvey, so much to see in the world and so little time! I have also been lucky in regards to travelling and have managed to visit many places I would not have considered in my youth.

I have visited the Pyramids outside of Cairo and then travelled to Jerusaleum and saw The Church of the Holy Sepulchre and Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem.

I also managed to get across to Jordan in 1995 and took a tour of Jerash and Petra, what amazing places. Most people might remember Petra from one of the Indiana Jones movies some years back.

Jerash

Petra

I am so much enjoying everyone's travel descriptions! Even if I never get to these places I get such neat little glimpses from your descriptions. On a more domestic scale, I'm taking my kids to visit my alma mater, Iowa State, this weekend. My daughter, who is nine, just read a biography of George Washington Carver, so we will be sure to visit Carver Hall and also the former "Old Botany" where Carver did some of his first research.

Andrea..you will have to post back after this visit and tell us about it. Have fun.

Aussie Rick what amazing travels...I have always wanted to visit Petra.

I had planned to visit the Grand Canyon once and the trip did not go off as planned; but certainly would like to get there someday.

But I cannot complain because I have been to many amazing places.

My better half is in Oman again with a very good friend and old Kuwaiti colleague (a first time visit to Oman for her). We hope to see Nizwa Fort at least over the long weekend - Kuwaiti National Day, Liberation Day, Prophet Mohammed's Birthday (Peace Be Upon Him). All depends on how fit everyone is after the duck I'm cooking tomorrow evening and assuming we are not all wasted after the Aussie Rules/Gaelic Football match and BBQ at Muscat Rugby Club tomorrow!!