Fantasy Book Club discussion

I am relatively new to hardcore epic fantasys. Recently I purchased Jordan's Eye of the World, Terry Brooks - The Sword of Shannara and Terry Goodkind's Wizards First Rule.

I want to start at least one of these series, but wanted to see if anyone had a recommendation as to which of the three to start for a newbie?

I have heard mixed reviews of the complete series for all of them, but what are your opinions of each of the first books as compared to the others?

Thanks!

These are all pretty good books to start with. Brooks is probably the least complicated.

I liked Wizards First Rule and Eye of the world a lot, but the series' momentum and waiting for the books were enough to make me abandon both series.

If you don't mind waiting a long time between books, pick up George RR Martin's A Game of Thrones.

Brooks would be a good place to start. Not the most complicated of series, but enjoyable just the same.

And, on the plus side his Shannara Series can be broken down in multiple manageable trilogies, while the Sword of Truth is an eleven books series and the Wheel of Time has yet to be finished.

Thanks to you both!

I agree that Brooks is the best place to start, mainly because I like that you can read it in batches like William suggested. I can't usually read more then 3-4 books without needing a break, so when I first read these books, I read others in between. It's easy to pick them back up again at a later date. With the Wheel of Time series I lost interest somewhere around the 4th book. It didn't seem like the story was really going anywhere anymore so I took a break and forgot the storyline. I'm going to wait until they're finished being written and try again.
I haven't read the Goodkind series.

All this talk has made me realise it's been over 15 years since I've read Brooks - I think it's time for a reread!

Of those three choices I would start out with Jordan's The Eye of the World. It was the book that hooked me onto Epic Fantasy years ago. The series is BIG, enough so that it will be a good introduction to huge multi-volume stories. It also borrows from other fantasy and mythology. There's a legendary High King named Artur Paendrag (King Arthur Pendragon), other legends reminiscent of Greek mythos, and even one story that references the Cold War. The similarities to The Lord of the Rings punch you in the face sometimes, but they're all purposeful. The idea is that all those legends, in fact ALL legends, actually happened in another age.

It's also bold, but perhaps too bold. You'll love the characters at first, and won't be able to stop reading. But around book 7 or 8 the story begins to implode and the characters start feeling repetitive. 9 & 10 are painful reads, but it picks up again after that. However, Volumes 1 - 5 may be the most exciting and fun Epic (read Good vs. Evil) Fantasy series yet written. The Wheel of Time is worth your time.

Personally I'm not a fan of Terry Brooks. Goodkind's Sword of Truth is worth a read, but the later volumes can be a bit preachy and dense, with a flat story (even flatter than the later WoT novels). I'd save it for later.

I do have two suggestions to make:

The Lord of the Rings by J.R.R. Tolkien: Yeah it's kind of stuffy and British, but it's the father of modern fantasy literature. I wish I'd read it first.

A Song of Ice and Fire by George R.R. Martin: Widely considered (by myself as well) to be the best fantasy series to date. Certainly the most well written. It has Amazing characters, with a capital A. You grow to love each of the principal characters, despite their faults. You love the innocent children, strong willed women, honorable knights troubled the blood they've spilled, and fair maidens. You also love the whores, thieves, murderers and the incestuous. The two I love best are a thirteen year old girl with an abusive brother that forces her to marry and old stranger, and an intellectual midget that falls in love with whores. Then horrible things happen to EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM. It's a dark series, but the best of the best. Even if you don't read this one first, do yourself a favor and read it eventually.

Hope you don't mind the lengthly post.

Thanks Matt! I appreciate the recommendations! I did already read LOTR - probably about 8 or 9 years ago, so I started off right. I have also read Rothfuss' Name of the Wind and loved it.

Will definitely check out GRRM series too!

Bridgit wrote: "I am relatively new to hardcore epic fantasys. Recently I purchased Jordan's Eye of the World, Terry Brooks - The Sword of Shannara and Terry Goodkind's Wizards First Rule.

I want to start at l..."
Bridgit,
I humbly offer an alternative opinion -- based on writing quality alone, I would recommend Eye of the World

I am not a fan of Brooks so I am biased here. I have read both the Jordan books and the Goodkind books multiple times. The Jordan ones I am rereading right now because I had forgotten enough that I wanted to be fresh as the series is finally finished by Sanderson.

That brings me to my recommendation. I think the Mistborn Trilogy is quite possibly the best start to epic fantasy you could ask for. It is only 3 books, so its manageable and even the non-fantasy types I have recommended it to have loved it. The pacing is fast, and the story progresses (the big down side to both Goodkind and Jordan).

If you are set on one of the three you mentioned I would probably go with Eye of the World. It is a fantastic read. I personally feel you can read it almost stand-alone, as it is much more self-contained than the rest of the series. I swapped back and forth between Jordan and Goodkind as books were released in each series, I like being able to break up a series anyway so that is always an option as well.

Steven Erikson Malazan Book of the Fallen is another worthy series. With 9/10 books out now, it's nearly complete. This is new epic fantasy like Jordan & Martin where they are quite big stories that pull you in.

And if we're tossing out ideas, Tad Williams Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn books are excellent.

Now, as for the first three, I really liked older Brooks books but I think the last couple trilogies aren't very good. The early ones suffer a bit from 'Tolkienitis' but are still enjoyable, Brooks had a good knack back then creating unique baddies and heroes. Not quite the world building or cast of thousands like newer authors though.

Wizard's First Rule is a good book and I think it shook up the fantasy world when it was released. Sadly, the other books really take a dive after that. I will say I think Faith of the Fallen made up for the ones before it but then it just falls back into bleh.

Jordan books...well, again it starts pretty good but by the 5 or 6th you start asking yourself where this is going and why you're reading it. It takes a real effort push through that but it sounds like it's worth it. I admit I stopped a few books back and decided to wait until the whole thing comes out.

Tough choice. Other then the first two books I wasn't a Brooks fan, and wouldn't recommend. I read the Sword of Truth and I did enjoy it, plus its finished. However, I would have to recommend the Wheel of Time to start with. Like everyone else I think books 9 & 10 drive you a little crazy but the rest is great. I agree with Matt that 1-5 are amazing! Having Brandon Sanderson finish the series has added a lot of excitement and a renewed interest in the end of the series for many. Of course I am a little biased Wheel of Time may be my favorite series.

Thanks everyone! I am going to go and pick up the first Sanderson book this weekend. I did start on Sword of Shannara and definitely see a ton of similarities to LOTR, but so far it has been a nice easy introduction. I'll probably hit up Eye of the World next and see where that leads me.

Reading a series that is finished definitely appeals to me. I tend to lose interest in long sagas and not bother finishing them - regardless of whether they are still good or not. I also never read back to back books in a series. Usually there is at least a month, or more, between books by the same author, otherwise I tend to get burned out. I could see that happening in a series of 10 750+ page books.

Wizards First Rule. Eye of the World if good but then there is also A New Spring.

To start, Goodkind. If you want an alternative, I would read The Name of the Wind by Patrick Rothfuss or Magician by Raymond Feist

I would say Wizards First Rule. I totally adore all of Terry Goodkind's books, and especially if you don't want to read the whole series in one run (eleven books might be a little bit too much to start with), as the first part is easily readable as stand alone.

To be honest though, I haven't read Terry Brooks yet, so my judgement isn't totally reliable.

Jordan is who first got me hooked on fantasy. I am rereading the WoT for the, oh, 3rd or 4th time, especially since the series is on pace to finish, and although I will agree that some of the later books are a bit slower, I do recommend if you read Jordan is to TAKE NOTES!!!! There will be mention of some far off character or historical point in book two that gets referenced in book 7. Pointedly, there are two main characters that can see some elements of the future, but they don't quite know what they're seeing. It can give a clue as to what comes down the pipe later.

Wizard's First Rule does get a bit preachy in the end of the series, but overall it was action packed and very suspenseful.

Brooks is on my radar. I have the first 3 Shannara books on my bookshelf at home but haven't gotten a chance to crack them yet, so I offer a neutral position until further notice.

Hey, let us know what you went with?

None of them sound all that great to me. Brooks' Running with the Demon is where I would go.

Of your list I'd recommend Robert Jordan, but I totally agree with the recommendation of the Mistborn trilogy! And the author of Mistborn is finishing the Wheel of Time series since Robert Jordan has passed away. He's a perfect choice to finish it too, a former fan-boy of the series and accomplished writer in his own right. The Wheel of Time is a huge undertaking and some of the books are better than others, but the end result is a hugely entertaining read.

I'm a little late to the discussion, but I already see that you've read the Sword of Shannara which is the easily the worst of the three you purchased. I gave up after 70 pages of that book. I loved Wizard's First Rule. I can't think of a single fantasy book with more highs and lows. At it's core is an epic romance and the book is filled with so much drama and action it can be a bit emotionally draining to read at parts.

IMO, Brook's Shanarra series is the simplest and has all the elements of Tolkienesque epic fantasy. And, if you like it, there are a lot more books in the series.

I consider Goodkind the best of these 3. I still have the most recent to read. I would personally save it to last.

I do not like Jorden. The original 3 books are good and full of promise, but beyond them, I felt I was being ripped off by the publishers/author— long books with little happening. So, I decided not to buy anymore. But a lot of people like this series.

I would go in this order:

Shannara, Eye of the World and...that's it.

Sorry to say I HATED Wizard's First Rule. I forced myself to finish it through and then immediately put it through the donation chute at the library. It was one of the biggest wastes of my time ever. IMO.

Bridgit wrote: "I am relatively new to hardcore epic fantasys. Recently I purchased Jordan's Eye of the World, Terry Brooks - The Sword of Shannara and Terry Goodkind's Wizards First Rule.

I want to start at l..."

Hi, Bridgit!
I've read all (so far) of these three series. I will just give you my opinion on each, and why.

Jordan -- definitely the best written of the three. Great story, WAY too many characters (over 1000), tends to bog down in places, but also deepens a lot.

Goodkind -- a hot story line, but later bogs down in political/social sermonizing, with a fascist slant that I didn't like.

Brooks -- good, clean fun, consistent characters, easy-reading style. Not so deep nor profound, pretty simple stuff.

Sarah wrote: "M.R. wrote: "Wow I liked "Wizards First Rule" but I do not like the never ending "serial" sort of fantasy series. Terry Brooks some what ended the Original Shannara Saga, But R. Jordan and Terry..."

Sarah,
I agree. Sword of Truth has oddly conflicting moral themes, which remind me a bit of Ayan Rand. Solid reasoning but with a big hole in the heart, and some strange social ideas. But certainly a good story.

He ranted against all those things and more. This doesn't automatically count him out for me. The series had serious merits, thus it's popularity. But it just isn't my cup of tea -- compared, say, to Wars of Light & Shadow: absolutely no comparison

Brooks was one of the authors who first got me into fantasy, so I would say he's a great jumping-off point.

John wrote: "Brooks was one of the authors who first got me into fantasy, so I would say he's a great jumping-off point."

He's on GR now too, I noticed...

Chris wrote: "John wrote: "Brooks was one of the authors who first got me into fantasy, so I would say he's a great jumping-off point."

He's on GR now too, I noticed..."

Cool. Thanks Chris :-).

Sensitivemuse wrote: "I would go in this order:

Shannara, Eye of the World and...that's it.

Sorry to say I HATED Wizard's First Rule. I forced myself to finish it through and then immediately put it through the donati..."

SO glad that someone else said this! Not because of the "it's preachy" thing, but that, for me, it was like reading someone's book based off a D&D campaign. I could see people rolling dice and checking their character sheets. Just sucked all the fun out of the book, for me.

While I'm a fan of some of Brooks' books (Landover, in particular,) and I was interested in his Shannara books enough to get the video game (Elfstones of Shannara, I think it was,) for the most part the series didn't suck me into it enough to follow it.

I've recently started Jordan's Wheel of Time series, but I need months between the books to stay interested in them.

As for recommendations, and I realize that I'm totally late coming to this, I'd suggest the Mistborn, but it's already been suggested. I'd also like to suggest Jim Butcher's Codex of Alera series. Pure win, there.

Jesi wrote: "Sensitivemuse wrote: "I would go in this order:

Shannara, Eye of the World and...that's it.

Sorry to say I HATED Wizard's First Rule. I forced myself to finish it through and then immediately put..."

I never thought of it that way...that's an interesting way of viewing it :)

there were plenty of reasons why I hated the book...but if I were to list them, I'd be here for a very long time.

I haven't read Codex Alera..yet..it's in my TBR pile (which is huge) heard lots of great things about it though.

I LOVED Terry Goodkind's series until about "Pillars of Creation". I stopped after that book. But I loved them until that book. Also I must agree with many that George RR Martin's series is amazing. I wish he would have the next book published all ready!!! I know it is going to be mostly about my fav character. The wait is agonizing!

Of those, I've only read a significant number of Brooks' books. It may have been said, but Sword of Shannara is pretty terrible, and borderline plagiarism, but after that his books get a LOT better, so read it only for how it sets up the rest of the books, and consider Elfstones to be the first "real" book.

I've just started Wheel of Time myself, and am only done with the first book, but I like it a lot, and am wondering why I waited until now. I'd never felt like I would enjoy it much, but it seems I was wrong.

I dimly recall liking the first four books of Goodkind's series, though with decreasing enthusiasm. The fifth book was a brick wall to me, it was so tedious that I stopped reading the series and just never went back to it. I still plan to start over one day.

I love the sword of truth series and they're my favorite fantasy books, but I have absolutely no qualms in saying that books 5,7 and 8 are just terrible. I think Goodkind just ran out of ideas and you could tell from the writing. It's probably not a good idea for any first time author, especially one who's never written before to jump right into the arena of long series writing. Btw, books 9-11 are on par more or less with 3,4 and 2 if you decide to keep on reading.

Well, unless I missed one, Bridget who started this hasn't commented since last February. I just wondered howed you'd gotten along?

I liked all the books you mentioned...but I had problems with each series. Brooks, okay, but I just got a little tired of the way the stories went...no big problems with it and I could pick it back up.

Goodkind, his first few books are okay, but they fall into a formula. Then however he gets so caught up in his preaching he pretty much subjugates his story line to his political/philosophical views. If it's you cup of tea enjoy, it sure made me glad I had the library and didn't buy them all.

Jordan, a tragedy. The series started out as what I believe would have been a masterpiece of fantasy, and then spun out of control as a soap-opera moving at a crippled snails pace, telling and retelling each event from 4,5, or more points of view without using those points of view to add to the story. It could have been great.

You've had some good advice, Tolkien, Martian, etc. There's also Elizabeth Moon's Paksenarrion trilogy, Zelazny's Amber books, Glenn Cook's Black Company, and a lot more. I don't know if you're interested in urban fantasy, in that there's the Harry Dresden series by Jim Butcher, but even if urban fantasy doesn't catch your interest Butcher wrote the Codex Alera books which are excellent epic/high fantasy. Lots of good choices.

Just one guy's opinions:

Wheel of Time--stopped reading around the 200th page.

Goodkind--wanted to stop reading after the second (fools me once...), dropped it 100 pages into the third. His prose and dialogue felt like a dog chasing its own tail. I'm actually surprised this particular series went on as long as it did and completely shake my head at the editors who *allowed* it to go on. So many great writers of fantasy out there and this is what makes it to the top?

Terry Brooks-- "Elfstones of Shannara" was, for me, his best. They are more YA in tone nowadays I feel, and he's trapped himself in the world of Shannara. Which isn't a bad thing...

These days I'm into the low fantasy--the heroic fantasy. There might be one or two beasties in there, even some magic, but the storylines aren't flowery, and doesn't feel like a bad D&D campaign. The characters get dirty. They swear. They aren't perfect, and they don't sound like lawyers (a beef I started to have with Brook's work after a while).

George RR Martin-- great series beginning with "A Game of Thrones" but he's fallen into what I feel is a trap of his own devise... I mean... he introduced a TON of NEW characters in the fourth book and then teases us with a promise that the second part (book five) to follow soon... and that was what? Five years ago now? With still no release date in sight. He's fallen onto my very naughty list alongside Stephen King for the 20 year+ gap in between book three and four of the Dark Tower series. I mean... come ON!

Recently read Joe Abercrombie's "The First Law" series, and I can recommend that with a shake of my head and a smile on my face. Very, very good read. Characters you root for in this one are not all they appear to be.

And in the end, it's the characters that make the stories shine.

Keith said: And in the end, it's the characters that make the stories shine.

Amen to that! I don't care how much the world shines or how much action there is, if I don't give two hoots about the characters, I'm not interested.

For me it would be none for them. If I had to pick really, it would be Eye of the World. The Sword of Shannara was just a retelling scene for scene of Lord of the Rings, who wants to read something like that, but it was the first mainstream fantasy so that has to count for something, right? Goodkind has overrun his creditability by having the one of the worst T.V. shows out there. First the show could not even really find a really network or time slot even though it was produced by abc, second Richard was too skinny looking and the other was too sexed up to me, did not stay true to the book, many I know, including other authors does not want something like that happen to their books. Come on goodkind, write something else for a change, don't come back to the world after it is done, that is just shameful. Eye of the World is the best of the three, first for being the biggest and bestselling fantasy series of all times. Second, the fan base is so incredible, you will not waste your time. Jordan puts his time into his world building and his characters, that could be a bad and good thing. Some hate that, but Brandon Sanderson has stayed true to finishing the series.

You should definetely pick Eye of the world. This is the best series of these three. You cant't get any series more epic than Wheel of time. Wizard's first rule is also good but don't bother reading past the first book since the story goes downhill after that. Goodkind also has some sick sexual scenes in the books, everyone that has read his books know what i mean. Shannara is just one big terrible copy of the lord of the rings. The first couple of books are ok but not worth buying.

I love Jordan and GoodKind. I read them all. went back and forth with jordan and goodkind. they both have books that are good and bad but the good out ways the bad. I don't understand Goodkind bashers. Pilliars of creation was bad. But joradan had some slow books and kept bringing bad guys he didn't need and long descriptions abound and rands maddness got old and the whole one page he could weld massive power and the next get his butt kick easy???. anyway love them both. Brooks is good but not great. he puts out solid 3 star books. book after book you can read and enjoy. but never amazing. I used them as reliable fillers while I was waiting for books to come out.

I don't think Joe Abercrombie can hold a candle to goodkind. I just got done the with Abercrombie's first three books. they are well paced an enjoyable. But I am all ready forgeting them. Character development is no where close to goodkind. I missed his charters. His world was way more creative And imaginative then Abercrombie's.

Also as much as I love George RR Martin who in the heck would recomend him to a new reader. If It was my first fantasy book I would not have finished the first one. It would have scared me away from fantasy forever. start people out lighter.

Thanks Sarah, very valid points I have to agree with them all. I guess after spending like 10 years knowing the characters and enjoying most of the books I am surprised when people bash goodkind. yes there are better writers and deeper books but for what they are, they are very good. people new to fantasy or non-readers can pick them up and enjoy. and Yes the TV show was horrible I was so disgusted. I think maybe the bashers just watched the show.

I wish audible would get Steven Erickson on there.

Sarah wrote: "Jason wrote: "I love Jordan and GoodKind. I read them all. went back and forth with jordan and goodkind. they both have books that are good and bad but the good out ways the bad. I don't understand..."

Everyone out there thought that Faith of the Fallen was the best of all the books. It was his version of The Fountainhead. Pillars of Creation to me was not bad at all, it was maybe my favorite book, just because it was the first time and only time that we get to see the point of view from the other side, which we never get to see, being a real treat to me that Goodkind would do that. Naked Empire was great, because he was given me a way to express to others how I felt about the wars oversea. Then the t.v. series was just trash. They step on everything the book meant. I just can't belief he would sell his books to become this sexed up. The actor playing Richard, should be buff in someway, he was not at all. It has no real network and time to air, it was all over the place. I heard say that in a interview, he saw come on at night, after the news, is that what you want out of it. A Game of Thrones on the other hand from every that I have seen and heard about it is going to be done the right way ,and maybe the only way by HBO, which is great if True Blood has anything to say about it.

No poll okay, just go and read the Legend of Drizzt, but not in order, starting with the Crystal Shard, my favorite book of all time. My profile picture is Drizzt from the special SFBC edition they did of the first trilogy. On SFBC the first two trilogies are maybe one of the only books on their that has always been on the top ten bestseller no matter what.

Unfortunately, I really couldn't stand Sword of Shannara.

The Wheel of Time is a great series, I might start there. Good luck and happy reading!

Chelsea wrote: "Unfortunately, I really couldn't stand Sword of Shannara..."

I may have said this before, but many of us who read LOTR in the early 70s needed more Tolkienoid epic fantasy. The Sword of Shannara was the 1st book and series to satisfy this need and it was much appreciated. I devoured the trilogy, like I did LOTR.

So much more and better epic fantasy has been written since, I understand why Shannara is no longer appreciated for what it once was. I still have good memories of Brin. I kept up with the various trilogies over the years and they definitely became tired.

Kate wrote: "These are all pretty good books to start with. Brooks is probably the least complicated.

I liked Wizards First Rule and Eye of the world a lot, but the series' momentum and waiting for the books ..."

You have got to be kidding!! Martin has a MASSIVE gap between books, sorry but this comment is just plain FALSE! FALSE! FALSE!

Ham and cheese sniffers with a touch of corn daddies for dippin!

Jordan got me into fantasy with his Wheel of Time series, so I would definately recommed that. However, compared to Goodkind it is a heavier read in terms of plot, characters and concepts.

I've seen a couple of people suggest A Song of Ice and Fire. I would not go for that at all if you're new to the genre. It's too bleak and the I would classify the first book as boring.

I've read all three, but out of them I Love Jordan the best. He is the one that I keep going back to for more and more all the time. Goodkind and Brook I like, but not on the same level as WoT.

Having to choose just one to take with me to a deserted island, Jordan would be my pick. Everyday.