Axis Mundi X discussion

After some serious consideration of some issues raised in the last couple of days, I have come to the conclusion that an apology is in order from me to certain members of this community.

It was pointed out to me that in a thread on the Haters Club I had made the statement that "I Hate Christianity", and that this statement was not only offensive, but also has lead people to assume that I actually do hate not only Christianity, but also Christians.

The truth is that statement is not at all correct. It would be accurate for me to say that I have problems with some aspects of Christianity, and some of the actions taken in the name of Christianity throughout history. I also have a great deal of respect for the teachings of Jesus Christ, and I find many parts of the Bible both beautiful and profound. My relationship to Christianity is complex and multi faceted and too vast to sum up in something as vile and one dimensional as saying that I hate it. It was wrong of me to say that, even in a forum as obviously flippant as The Haters Club.

I do not wish to be misconstrued or to create any kind of atmosphere wherein my inquiry into different aspects of thought, belief, etc are easily interpreted as being hostile or as having some kind of nefarious agenda.

I apologize if my statement was hurtful to anyone who is part of the Christian faith, or anyone else for that matter. It was unthinking, unkind, and unnecessary. I hope anyone who was hurt by it can forgive my blunder.

Sincerely,
Charissa

I probably also owe folks an apology in several forums. I've tried to tread gently and respectfully where the religions people espouse is concerned, and I feel pretty successful on that front (which is new for me, so yay me!). However, where it comes to people with opinions on religions of others, I'm often exceptionally quick to jump down others' throats, calling them judgmental, when that was never the intent (it may be the price of my tolerance of Christianity and Christians...). I will often do the same where science/bio-repro-neuro-chem-psych-whatever is concerned.

I hope folks will take my responses as eagerness to debate, not as personal attacks. Though my own approach admittedly might contain some of each.

--lisa

Charissa... Wow. You should work as a P.R. consultant writing mea culpa press releases for celebrities. (e.g., "It was certainly not my intention to demean the brave, highly capable women working in California law enforcement or to further the odious misconception that their honorable breasts are in any way sugary.")

At any rate, kudos to you. It's difficult to admit when we make an error in judgment. Fortunately, it's never yet happened to me personally, but I'll use this thread as a blueprint for action if it ever does.

(Lastly--and at the risk of stoking an almost-dead fire--I don't think it's a particularly fair or reasonable reaction of any reader to assume from your comment "I hate Christianity" that you hate Christians. I think modern teenagers best express this distinction in their mantra: "Don't hate the playah, hate the game.")

Class act, Charissa.

You too, Lisa.

R

How did you make that little TM sign?

Thanks, you guys. I have to give credit to my best friend who listened to me kvetch all day about the issue, and then told me I was being an ass. Friends like that keep ya from flying off too far into the land of complete idiocrisy.

David... ha ha ha... is that your imitation of The Governator? I totally want the job of writing apology speeches for him. That would rock.

Koe, I'm glad you knew that. The thing I have to remember is that when it is brought to my attention that not *everyone* knew that, the first thing to do is NOT to shove your shoe further into the cavity of one's mouth.

You guys are the best.

ah Mel... I crushed on him hard once upon a time. And then I met him. Oy.

Well-said, Charissa. Give yourself a pat on the back. For what it's worth, I didn't find your comments offensive.

I never even saw them, Char, sweetie...but you know this lil' Christian girl loves ya!

Donald... somehow I knew you would give me crap about this. :::hits him with a ripe trout::::

Alabaster feet? That sounds bad. Is there a foot spray or some kind of treatment for that?

it's a creme. But it's hopeless. The best I can hope for is to keep the pollution from decaying my soles.

I'm sorry I get so revved up about gender and corporation issues. Those topics release the inner angry woman in me. Really, in true life my blood pressure is dangerously low and I try not to even offend the mailman.

Thanks Charly. I tell you, it's really given me a new perspective on things. I think I spend a lot of time mentally blowing people off, with that "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" kind of dismissal. I think it's indicative of the way I deal with myself internally as well. It was a good reminder to perhaps approach the world (and myself) with a little more kindness.

The speed we move at here in the US I think makes it difficult for us to slow down and care about those around us. At least I think that's true for me. My daughter came home from Ireland in March and reminded me of how soft that place is by comparison. We completely lose that awareness being in midst of our own culture. It's good to be reminded of it.

This is terrible. Stop it. You're allowed to hate whatever seems hateful to you. U.S. foreign policy. Corn muffins. Christianity. If you hate Christianity you have nothing to apologize for. How is it your problem that some people are going to be offended by your feelings/beliefs? Why is not their problem for holding a belief that offends you?

Christianity is not special. It doesn't get an exemption from critical appraisal or emotional response. It's one set of beliefs, like Scientology or astrology or phrenology or Wallingantism (obscure thing I just picked up).

We are just now finally breaking out of centuries of rigorous hands-off policy toward religion, enforceable by death or marginalization. You still can't run for president without taking a lowest-common-denominator stance on god and religion.

Note that I am not myself taking a stance on Christianity or Christians in this post. My own feelings about it are irrelevant to the problem here. The problem is that nobody should have to apologize for goring a sacred cow, because none of them are sacred; they are all just hamburger in waiting, ideas that we are allowed to examine, poke at, criticize, chew up and spit out. Some are rare, some are undercooked, some some are well done, and some are infected with a dangerous strain of e. coli (I apologize at this point to vegetarians for this last metaphor, but even more to sensitive readers and prescriptive linguists for the awful things I did to it.)

But really. If you hate Christianity, hate it. Make peace with the people you offended if you want to, make it clear that you don't hate those individuals for holding those beliefs, but don't take it back because you think it's wrong to have strong feelings about other people's beliefs. There are settings where it's polite to keep them to yourself, certainly, but if you're having a vigorous and honest conversation, people are going to be offended, that's the price, but it's good practice for getting along in the world.

Personally, I also apologize for barging in and making pronouncements after a long absence, which almost guarantees that I'm taking this out of context, and blundering about half-informed, at best.

Hey, folks.

Hi Howard! Nice to see you.

Yes, I get where you are coming from. And believe me, I was vigorously defending my right to hate anything pretty vociferously. I suppose I could have gone on doing that forever, and just decided that other people's feelings were casualties of war.

But when I really stopped to think about what I was saying, what it meant, what I care about, and how it is to stand in someone else's shoes... I realized an apology was in order.

I'm not taking it back because it hurt people's feelings. I'm taking it back because it's not accurate. And it's prejudice. It's my prejudice. And I don't feel like participating in prejudice.

I can be critical of the actions that have been taken in the name of Christianity, or that continue to be taken in the name of Christianity, or some portions of the belief system (which one, there are so many), without resorting to a blanket hatred for an entire belief system.

There's enough hatred in the world already without my needing to add to it in this particular way. It doesn't cost me anything to apologize for hurting people I care about. In fact, it has been a rather amazing event so far.

I do get what you are saying. But in this instance apologizing was absolutely correct.

Hey, Charissa.

Yeah, okay. You're the one that knows what you really think. And hating Christianity is kind of pointless, like hating a continent. (Completely reversing myself here, which, what the hell.)

I like the "doesn't cost me anything" principle, myself. Last weekend, there was a street fair on my block, and I was being friendly to strangers. A friend who knows what a mean-spirited crank I really am was surprised, and commented. The answer was that it didn't cost me anything to be superficially pleasant, and made their day less irritating than if I had launched right into complaining about their taste in books. Didn't cost me anything, so again I say, what the hell.

LOL... I like cranky people. I tend to be rather cranky myself on a rather regular basis. Especially when I'm driving. But it gets old after a while. It's good to keep people guessing.

Howard, all respect, but you weren't here when the whole thing went down. It wasn't the statement that spurred the apology, but the aftermath. Anyway, it's all over and done with now and I don't feel like getting into it, but I just wanted to let you know that there was way more to the situation than "I hate Christianity." "I'm offended!" It wasn't like that.

Charissa's apology was a class act and very much appreciated.