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Space Opera Education Needed?
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Hello Joe:It may surprise you to know (but probably not) that space opera is (or was) nearly dead until fairly recently. It used to be known as Science Fiction/ Fantasy. Most people don't realise that Star Wars is Space Opera.
This sub-genre of Science Fiction had it's heyday in the twenties through the fifties. It began to disappear from the literature in the sixties and by the eighties it was all but gone. Television has always had it's share of Space opera but it was never known as that and for the most part shows didn't last too terribly long. Babylon Five and the new Battlestar Galactica have kind of swung the pendulum the other way a bit. Now it is up to writers and novelists to push the warp drives into high gear and re-introduce this exciting sub-genre back to prominence where it belongs. I am working on a couple of projects myself that are deeply rooted in Space opera.
The problem really started with the death (for the most part) of the pulp era and OTR (Old Time Radio) which were both loaded with Space Opera. Writers went the more intellectual route and eventually lost a large portion of their readership to Fantasy which is loaded with the swash-buckling excitement that Space Opera used to supply.
A friend of mine, Nicola Cuti created a really neat Space Opera in Captain Cosmos: The Last Starveyor. He produced a novel, a comic, and a kids show while in California. Once he came to Florida he teamed up with my fledgling movie company to create a wraparound story tying his three smaller episodes into what is now known as "Captain Cosmos and the Grey Ghosts." We put out a DVD which included an all new episode called "Captain Cosmos and The Planet of the Reptiles." I directed and Nick wrote the eighteen minute short which finds the Captain searching for two lost girls, the "Saurian Sisters" and a crew member known as "Troll" who were out researching the evolution of Lizards on the planet Jurassia. It's a lot of fun and I really enjoyed working on it.
So I say let's liven up this little Sci-Fi corner of Goodreads with some good discussion about the future of Space Opera!!! As you can probably tell, I really like it!!!!
Have a Great Day!!!
John (aka, the "Creature")
P.S. If you don't already know about it there is a great Space Opera website you should check out. It is an online magazime entitled "Raygun Revival." It's definitely worth it. All 55 issues of their magazine are available and they have some fantastic stories (and a couple Serials as well). Enjoy!!!
John, A big "YES" on all counts! I will do my part to bring the term back to popular and favorable consciousness. I even put it in the subtitle to Star Chosen. I think space opera has a bright future.
I agree and look forward to being in on the ground floor of the "Revival!!!"
Would one say the Dune was the start of the revival of Space Opera? Written in the mid sixties it seemed destined to influence and inspire. Glad to see this group has come alive of late.
I definitely think Dune was part of the revival. Perhaps you could even draw a dotted line from many of the X-Minus One episodes in the 1950s to Dune in the 1960s to Star Wars in the 1970s.
Hey Guys:I agree. I'm glad this group is coming to life I was excited when I joined but now it's becoming "Fun!!!"
Okay, here's the deal. I'm not sure I would categorize Dune as Space Opera mostly because it is written with a heavier, more serious vein. Space Opera, to me, is more like Cowboys and Indians only it's Spacemen and Space pirates and Aliens. It's almost like epic Sword and Sorcery set in a futuristic setting. Maybe it's just me but that's how I feel about it. Heinlein created a lot of what I'd call space opera and the king was obviously Edgar Rice Burroughs with his Mars and Venus series. Star Wars is epic Space Opera and proof that the sub-genre is really a sleeping giant waiting to take on the world again. Can anyone say "Avatar?"
X-1 was probably the best of the radio dramas for Space Opera but we also have to remember Space Patrol and Captain Video as well. Again, in this genre there were others as well.
The old Flash Gordon, Buck Rogers, Cammando Cody, Rocky Jones, Tom Corbett, Tom Swift, etc... These were all epic "Space Fantasy," what we now know as Space Opera.
What we are doing here is creating an avenue for others to look at and build an excitement for. I honestly believe there is plenty of room in the literary market for a few good raygun Battles.
Have a Great Day!!!
John (aka, the "Creature")
Dune definitely has a dark side, but because of all the relationship drama, it still works as space opera to me. It is exciting to find people as fired-up about the genre as I am.
Hey Joe:Yeah, hopefully our numbers will grow since we've put some activity into this dustuy old shelf.
Do you consider "Dune" complete with the first five novels of do you still enjoy the efforts of kevin J. Anderson and Brian herbert, Frank's son. I think they've done 8-10 "Dune" books, some prequels, and some sequels.
It's hard for me to wrap around "Dune" as space opera but you are right in that it does share an awful lot of characteristics with many Space Operas. Maybe I'll revisit "Dune" with new eyes.
have a Wonderful Day!!!
John (aka, the "Creature")
I tend to look at all the books as one giant space opera, much the same way General Hospital is one giant soap opera with many different writers.
Hello Joe:I know Kevin and Brian are really diligent on their "housework" for Dune. I've corresponded with Kevin in the past (as busy as he is I still managed to get a couple e-mails from him) and he is a cool guy who really looks into what he writes. That's why I think the Dune books (the newer ones he writes with Herbert'son Brian)have found a very popular audience of their own.
How about the DC comics Apace Operas of the late fifties through the sixties. There were incredible amounts of solo stories, Adam Strange, Space Ranger, Jonn Jonnz the Martian Manhunter, Space Cabby, Tommy Tomorrow, Hawkman (actually he goes back a bit farther), Spacehunter, The Legion of Super-heroes, etc... That was some really cool stuff that I try to get hold of whenever I can. What about the man of Steel himself; Superman!!! he comes from another planet, battles space aliens, travels to other worlds, and basically does some cool stuff. There are lots of others I'm sure, with other companies as well. Harvey comics put out a little fave of mine; "The Three Rocketeers." Buck Rogers, Space Family Robinson, Captain Venture, The Mysterians all from Gold key Comics and all exciting. Then who can forget EC comics which produced some of the best Sci-Fi and Sci-Fi/fantasy ever seen in the comics. I love it all.
Have a Great Day!!!
John (aka, the "CReature")
Yes, that is all great Space Opera! I would add the X-Men storyline in the late 1970s and afterwards where they meet up with Lilandra and it leads to the eventual death of Jean Grey. Space opera is such a ripe genre.
Or the Kree-Skrull War in Avengers 89=97? The sub-genre is more rich than most people realize so we got a lot of "educatin'" ta do.Have a Great Day!!!
John (aka, the "Creature")
P.S. "Men, keep your laser guns at the ready. We have no idea what's gonna come through them bulkheads once we open them."
From a "Waveriders" story I'm working on.
C-Ya!!!
Unfortunately, there are so many different definitions for space opera that it's hard to know what one person in particular is looking for when they mention it. I claim to write it, but there are some out there who have a very narrow outlook on what constitutes one, and they definitely wouldn't consider my work in that vein.Good thing there are plenty of fans out there who agree with me. ;-)
Good point. Perhaps we should define the known parameters of what Space Opera is here!
Except everyone on this board probably has a different set of known parameters... ;-)I've always described it as "Science Fiction for the rest of us."
I've heard Dune was more of a Planetary Romance, in that it has the elements of Space Opera, but is confined to one planet. I write Space Opera almost exclusively, and my next novel, Tyrmia will be confined to a single planet. Currently, my novel, Starstrikers is doing well as a Kindle e-book. This summer I'm releasing an e-book anthology of my short stories set in the Starstrikers and Tyrmia universe. The stories feature gun slinging Stellar Rangers and self aware androids. Long live Space Opera!
T.M., I like your definition. However, there are some that would say it is too vague, but I totally get it.Ken, I think a planetary romance definitely falls under space opera, even if it's just on one planet. The key is that it contains futuristic elements and relationship level drama. I am glad to know about your work too and wish you the best of success. Long live space opera--at least until all the androids take over!
Hello All:Then we can have "Android Space Opera" (as well as Droid/robots like Twiki, And the R2D2/C3PO team).
Planetary Romance is definitely a huge part of what space opera is but I think the underlying tone is in the swashbuckling antics of the characters. Space operas don't let the drama and suspense linger (unless they're cutting to another section of the story), they are all about action and surprise. At least that has always been the impression I had of it while growing up. Maybe I'm wrong (and surely outnumbered on the Dune issue) but that's what I feel Space Opera is.
Have a Great Day!!!
John (aka, the "Creature")
John, I do see where you are coming from. I think usually, that is the case with space opera--that there is an important swashbuckling element to it. However, I don't think we should limit it to just that. Therefore, I am submitting my definition of space opera here, and yes it is on the broad side:Space Opera = A relationship-focused science fiction story within a universe where some of the drama involves futuristic concepts.
In a space opera storyline, the character-to-character interactions within a futuristic or speculative setting is the primary focus. Typically, these character interactions are central to the story and involve close relationships between family, friends, or love interests. Often a space opera storyline can easily be adapted into another genre, such as a Western, and with minor changes, still work as a story.
In science fiction stories that are NOT space operas, while there may be some relationship drama, the primary focus is on futuristic or speculative concepts.
In NON-space opera stories that are science fiction, the futuristic concepts drive the story.
In space opera stories, the character interaction drives the story.
For example, "2001: A Space Odyssey" is science fiction, but NOT a space opera because the futuristic concept of a rogue computer and the acceleration of human development by aliens was the main focus. By contrast, Star Wars is a space opera because of the interpersonal drama between Luke Skywalker, his mysterious father, and the captured princess.
Hey Joe:I like it. It may be on the broad side but it is a starting point to which we could add a paragraph or two and come up with a "new" definition for ; "What is Space Opera."
I'll add something later (I gotta go somewhere for an hour or so. Good Work!!!
Have a Good One!
John (aka, the "Creature")
I'll check it out for sure.Have a Great Day!!!
John (aka, the "Creature")
Yes, I would say all Star Wars offshoots would fall into the space opera category.
Without a doubt. Even SW fan fic. Hey I've got notes for a great SW novella.have a Great day!!!
John (aka, the "Creature")
hello:I sure didn't forget. Space Opera and Sword & Sorcery got me going...and still do.
"Blast em and we'll ask questions Later."
Have a Great Day!!!
John (aka, the "Creature")
I usually will watch them myself when they come on. You need to check out the old serial Flash Gordon's from the thirties. They're really cool and you can see a few things that were updated for Star Wars. There are lots of other neat Sci-fi serials that appeared up until the mid fifties. Also, lots of 1950's science Fiction "outer space" movies scream of Space Opera. There were some good ones."Let your lazers do the talkin' Boys. These Space Pirates are a rough bunch!"
have a Great day!!!
The "Creature"
I need to find me a good weekend and pull out my copies of the original trilogy for a watch party. It's been a while.On the other hand, I tend to bring out Firefly every six months or so. :-)
Hello:Good choice. We sometimes have movie "watching" parties where we get out the DVD's, some pizza and pop, and enjoy several hours of watching movies.
Have a Great Day!!!
John (aka, The "Creature")
hell0:Foudation was a great series. For whatever reason I never finished all of them so now I'll go back and do so.
The scrolling screen that introduces each of the SW episodes (which was highly praised) was actually borrowed from Flash Gordon. That was how the introduced the episodes.
Lucas never claimed that all was original in SW. It was kind of a homage to what had gone before with a decidedly modern twist. I think he did a phenomonal job and I applaud him. His efforts have left us a classic Space Opera that will be revered for a long long time.
Have a Great Day!!!
John (aka, the "Creature")
Hello:I guess that came out the wrong way. I new you weren't ctitical of the "Foundation" series. You were just bringing it into the discussion. I was just stating I never finished the series and would go back and do so.
No problem. let's have more Space Opera suggestions. How about the ERB additions to literary Space Opera?
have a Great Day!!!
John (aka, The "Creature")
Here is a link to where anyone can get Burroughs' space opera (and other) works as free audiobook files on LibriVox
Adding to the space opera definition thread, here is a humorous comic strip on the space opera topic: Opera Crash Course Comic
Hello:Very funny Joe, but very true. I Like it!!!
Have a Great Day!!!
John (aka, The "Creature")
akadogfish wrote: "Creature wrote: "I usually will watch them myself when they come on. You need to check out the old serial Flash Gordon's from the thirties. They're really cool and you can see a few things that w..."Although I wasn't personally happy with the quality of the SW prequels, it's clear they were heavily influenced by old school space opera like Flash Gordon and Foundation. I think that was one of the better ideas that Lucas had for the prequels.
Hi. I'm new to the group and this discussion looks lively and fun. I never really paid that close attention to sub-genres, I just like to read sci-fi. If the blurb on the back sounds good, I read it. If the cover catches my eye, I'm there.So for a Space Opera, would you consider Old Man's War by John Scalzi to fit the category.
Hi. New to the group.To me "space opera" involves space ships, ray guns, aliens (maybe) and characters willing to risk life and limb for something. This does not necessarily equate to "swashbuckling". Some of the best current space operas are more seriously informed. Thinking of Alastair Reynolds and Iain M. Banks here.
Don't get me wrong, I cut my teeth on Buster Crabbe's versions of Flash Gordon. He certainly swashed some buckles and Charles Middleton's Ming was the quintessential space villain. So I include all that, John Carter of Mars, etc. as seminal space opera.
Much of the SF in the 1950s and even 1960s was almost inherently space opera because we were still exploring space travel concepts as well as realities and the fabric of the story-telling was still quite fluid. A good example and one of my favorite space opera series were the short stories of Murray Leinster about a space-faring medical officer. It's now available in an omnibus version called "Med Ship". See: http://www.webscription.net/10.1125/B...
Many would not place Dune in the space opera fold. I'm not sure myself, although it ranks with the best SF ever written. The Star Wars saga is thought by many to be more of a fairy tale, but here again, I'm flexible. Some of Vernor Vinge's novels certainly qualify as does much of C. J. Cherryh's output. Peter Hamilton writes huge chunks of it.
It's all good.
Based on the comments here, I can see a parody short story written wherein the two camps differing on the 'space opera" definition have an argument at a convention. In turn, this becomes a physical fight and then aliens, who were about to invade the planet, decide against it, concluding that the Earthlings are too hostile.
I like what Jim posted. Perhaps more of us should post some links here to free space opera eBooks, to get people thinking along the same (or similar lines). Here is a link to a good space opera eBook: Star Wars: Lost Tribe of the Sith #1: Precipice
My definition of space opera:You need multiple planets, or space stations, inhabited asteroids, etc. and/or space travel. And single (or small group of) heroes. That is all.
Military SF is basically the same but you need heroes that are part of organized force (Space Naval, Goverment Institutions), and being part of them is vital to story. (rouge ex-military stuff, is more likly to become space opera).
And SF is space opera. SF is military sf. SF is more. SF is when you have some plausible (or not plausible) fiction, set in technological universe (future, past, alternative, or post-technical).
SF will count also psychological books, where sf is just background. Space opera and msf is more about fiction, tech, etc.
In short
Space travel? So it is space opera or military sf. Former if characters represent larger organized forces, while space opera is more about individuals saving whole universe.
PS You do __not__ need aliens. Human to human can be more alien, than any alien can be (do to common heritage).
I agree with Przemek that no aliens are required for space opera. But they are certainly welcome at the opera.
But they are certainly welcome at the opera. But only if they bring earth cash with them and proper evening dresses ;)
I define Space Opera as a sweeping SF setting with inter planetary travel and high tech with an equally dramatic story.Some of my favorite space operas are Asimov's Robot/Empire/Foundation, Herbert's Dune, Star Wars, Star Trek, Babylon 5, Battlestar Galactica, Buck Rogers, And Jack McDevitt's two series.
I think that any story can be in multiple sub-genres. I think Space Opera refers to the scope of the setting and it being a dramatic story. It can be adventurous, military, mythical, political, or very cerebral. I wouldn't describe what I write as any other type of science fiction other than Space Opera.
for me space opera quintessentially must have interplanetary travel either physically (P.F. Hamilton) or meta meta-physical (Richard K. Morgan)
and enough characters a character list might be required or enough drama to make it read like it needs a character list
any author recommendations I recently read some of Ann Aguirre's work and the lost fleet series by jack Campbell.
I always thought of Science Fiction as Science Fiction but I have heard of Star Wars referred to as a Space Opera. I just figured the term meant it was a big, epic story set in space.Space Epic? Space Opera? Any difference?
Does Space Opera have a negative connotation? Would Space Epic be an alternative term?
Scott wrote "I define Space Opera as a sweeping SF setting with inter planetary travel and high tech with an equally dramatic story."
Sounds right. :)
"Space Opera = A relationship-focused science fiction story within a universe where some of the drama involves futuristic concepts."I love your definition, Joe. ; probably one of the clearest ones I have read. There are, of course, great variances within that broad line, as some Space Opera will focus more on the Military aspect, while others, like mine, will focus on romance and culture building. I have seen a larger influx of books using the Space Opera genre as their book's category lately, and I am glad to see new life being breathed into the genre.
IMO, Space Opera is the foundation, and something like Space Epic/Space Adventure would be the building that sits on it. And, like any building, there are "codes" that must be adheared too when you build it, but those codes are all dependant on the type structure and the zoning.Like Firefly, Star Trek, and Star Wars would all be different types of buildings all built on the same type of cement block.
I was quite surprised when I realized how few people know what a space opera is! I guess my head must still be back in the mid 20th century, because it only recently occurred to me that space operas are a niche genre. So under appreciated... And yet, Firefly, Star Wars, and Star Trek are still so visible in pop culture. At least I thought so. Maybe I'm just living on another planet...
Is anyone else running into people who are uneducated as to what a space opera is?