Outlander Series discussion

Since ECHO I have been reading a lot of mixed reviews by many regarding LJG. It all appears to be Black and White / Love or Hate his character. No Grey areas with him.

I truly love his character and would love to hear opinions from many. Such as, what is Brianna going to think when she finds out her mother is married to LJG? How do you think she is going to find out? Letters or person? John did the same for Brianna also, how could he NOT be loved?

I also feel that when John helped Jamie with the stone/jewel to return Brianna and family, I was pleading for DG to write the story with LJG at the stones with the family as they transported. Anybody else feel the same? I guess DG put so much on LJG's admiration for William and his sister Brianna that I felt his pang. I thought it would make the story a little more complete.

Brianna did end up telling LJG she was a time traveler while he was in the inn, but he didn't believe her. It would have been so freaky if he had been there to see it.

I was on the fence about him until I listened to all of his audiobooks. Now I really like him whether or not he has a passion for Jamie. His books made him a lot more sympathetic as a character and about his love and I do believe it is a true love not infatuation of Jamie.

I'm also in the minority about the consummation of the marriage between Claire and LJG. I felt that with them both being drunk and in horrible mourning with Claire suicidal, they sought comfort with each other. LJG has been with women in the past and maybe felt that being with Claire would bring him somewhat closer to Jaime. Claire I felt was not only in deep mourning but also in a "who cares, he's dead" frame of mind. When she gave LJG a hand job, I felt she didn't want sex with him any longer now that she was sober and more in control but felt she couldn't deny him completely. So she gives him a close but no cigar experience. He would close his eyes and imagine someone else's hand.

Overall, I like LJG a lot.

Wow!!! Two things you said...Claire being suicidal and a hand job? Where was I. I did absolutley no laundry that week! I need to reread.

I really enjoy your point of view. I was one against them consummating but understood how it could happen easily. I heard your "who cares, he's dead" loud and clear and truthfully I can't say I would be able to give anymore than that either. I wish Claire would have waited longer to be for sure that Jamie was dead.

Have you read any of the LJG books?

Do you have a opinion on Percy and John's relationship?

I've listened the unabridged audiobooks, which were great. Percy and John's relationship was pretty short. They were crazy about each other and then Percy was outed (while two-timing John) which at that time meant death, so John helped him to escape. Lord John was also worried that Percy might mentioned his name but Percy didn't. I think they were just hot and heavy for a time and if Percy wouldn't have been arrested it probably would have ended naturally. At first when I read Echo before the Lord John books, I was thinking who in the heck was Percy. Now it makes more sense. I need to re-read Echo now that I've gone through Lord John books. I would recommend the same for you. The audiobooks are pretty short (in comparison to the Outlander books - 8 to 10 CDs compared to 35).

I did read all of LJG's book and will reread them again. I even look forward to Harry Quarry. At first I didn't think he was a dependable character but he has proven to really have the Grey's family interest at heart. In Grey's books DG mentioned a few times that Hal's health was poor and she brought that out in Echo. Poor John when he looses his brother.

One thing I am unclear on??? John's first relationship when he was a boy, was it his older brother? Or was it not a relationship but an older brother coddling him? I feel like there was vague references.

Oh boy, I started a thread and I really need to reread.

There was another man (19 years old v. John's 16) that he met while in Scotland around the time that his arm was broken by Jamie when he tried to "rescue" Claire. I think that was his first relationship and is the one who gave him the sapphire ring that he wore forever until he gave it to Jamie for Bree to use. Hector I think his name was and he was killed in Culloden. I think that was his first love and experience.

Oh, I'm glad I found this thread! Thanks Heather! Ok, I have a couple of things to comment on. I'll start with the last comment. His name was definitely Hector and he was John's first love. Hector was killed at Culloden, right? Poor John. I also know that John was raped when he was younger. But I don't believe he elaborates too much on that fact.

I really like Harry Quarry too. When I first read about him in Voyager, handing off Ardsmuir to John, I wasn't too fond of him. But then again, I was hesitant about John at first too. I absolutely LOVE his character, and I know we are in the minority. I really don't understand why people don't like him. I'm hoping some other people will comment on this thread and shed some light as to why he isn't very liked.

Ok, I actually have had this question for a long time, but have never had it answered. Where/when did Brianna tell John she was a time traveler?? I remember her telling him that he probably won't ever see her again, that she needed the gemstones, but for the life of me, I cannot remember her specifically telling him she's from 1969 or whatever time it is.

And one last thought. Heather, perhaps you might be able to confirm my feelings. LJ and the Private Matter. Did you find that book to be incredibly confusing?? I could not follow the plot at all. Perhaps my mind isn't made for murder mysteries, but I was really lost. I just accepted the fact that I wasn't going to completely understand the book and kept reading. I loved BOTB, and I really liked the short stories. And I really, really liked Percy; I was really disappointed when the betrayal happened. But I do believe he was coerced into it and that he really felt sorry for what he did. But now, in Echo, he comes off as so sleazy, why is that??

Thanks! I think maybe Hector starting with H and Hal overtime has confused me. I really hope to see that ring back on John's finger. Something about Hector holding him at night allowed me to feel John's securities and insecurities throughout his whole story. I guess that is why I was hoping there to be more between John and Percy than a hot fling. John deserves to be loved unconditionally and sorry DG, Jamie nor Claire cuts it! I was hoping for that Hungarian (?) too. Did I miss something there? I felt something between them.

Bree tells Lord John she will tell him the truth about her and her mom. Then some pages later, Lord John said he didn't believe her story but didn't tell her so. So it's not actually written as a scene in Echo.

I too felt sorry for Percy, it wasn't until later we find out he hadn't wanted to betray Lord John. I too felt like he was portrayed as pretty much going to the dark side after he left Lord John, but it sounds like this was the only way he could survive. When I read Echo I didn't like Percy much at all, but now I do see him in a different light.

Ah, ok, that makes more sense to me. I guess I just never put two and two together that she actually did tell him.

And yes, it's different after reading BOTB. I really hope they rekindle some sort of relationship, but it doesn't seem like they will. Because, as you said, it sounds like he went over to the dark side...lets hope he's telling the truth about Fergus!!! I was telling my friend, who hasn't and has no desire to read the LJG books, that I think he is telling the truth. I can't see why he would lie. But John is even uneasy about what Percy wants out of all of it. I never saw Percy as being someone who would manipulate things to get what he wants.

LJ means an unwelcome interruption in the Jamie and Claire saga to me. Just because he's gay he gets away with hanging about with his unrequited love for Jamie. Claire should have kicked his backside the way she would have done a woman.

And he's promiscuous as all get out from what I read. I like him in small bits. But over a half of a Jamie and Claire book? No. Back to your own series m'lord and boink the chef, not Jamie's wife.

I don't think LJG is getting away with anything.. It's not like Jamie looks at him, like a lost puppy, who is annoyingly at his heals. He is Jamie's friend, and confidant.. Jamie loves him, as the friend he has proven himself to be, time and time again. Yes LJG loves Jamie, that is something he can no more control, than his height, or eye color. Other than that, I'm fairly certain him being gay is irrevelant.

Me too Shell.

Rachel I loved BOTB!!! Private matters I too felt lost. Your dead on about your mind not suited for mysteries. It was hard for me to use my head and not just feel a book. I think I was just so focused on trying to hear more about Jamie that never happen, I never took the book in for what it was. I am going to take Carolyn's advice and reread, maybe this weekend.

Carolyn I did go back and Hector was four years older than John. Hector was absolutely John’s first Love. How I perceived what I did is beyond me. But John told Percy all about Hector in BOTB. You know what I had forgotten and I am now wondering. Percy drew a picture of John. Do you remember? They had the conversation about Fear and Courage. It started with John asking why the picture drawing. Percy said he could lose him to battle. I wonder if Percy still carries it or has it? I feel that their relationship was a little more than a fling. I went looking for an answer for Rachel and ended up reading a couple chapters of John and Percy’s lust. I came out with no answers.

Regarding the Percy looking for Fergus, Percy never met Jamie but knows John’s feeling for him. Percy is looking for the son of James Fraser. Do you think Percy has any intentions or motives in that direction?

Renee LOL “Boink the Chef”! Too funny. Outlander is about Jamie and Claire and I understand how it’s better kept that way but with no other characters I think we would get a 300 page novel of sex. I think between Jamie and John have learned from each other over years and have grown into great men because of each other. I am who I am because of other people in my life. You don’t get that Jamie is partly who he is because of John too? They have helped each other in dire straights and have trusted each other wholly. Jamie has only had a few people in his life to trust. Clansmen out of the question! Uncles in it for their own reasons! Big Ian… he’s dead now but John has never asked Jamie for anything ever with the exception of help of John’s own father. That meant so much to John but something he could not trust to just anybody. Jamie did so for him. They have a huge friendship based on silence. And you do not get that with everyone. I feel in order for me to love Jamie unconditionally I have to love John unconditionally too. LJG was introduced right after Randall and I think it just set things off on the left foot for John but I think DG has proven just because a man has tastes for a man doesn’t mean they are the same.

I forgot all about the picture Percy drew. I don't think it was mentioned in Echo. And the thing with Fergus, who knows which way that will go. I just hope it doesn't ruin Fergus. It sounds like his potential relatives in France are nut jobs.

I never found John to be promiscuous. He actually hasn't had very many love affairs. Yea, he may have fooled around with a couple of men here and there, but he has only loved three people. Hector, Jamie, and I do believe he loved Percy. I think he ends up finally admitting that to himself at the end of BOTB. I TOTALLY forgot about the picture!! I hope Diana brings that up in the next Outlander book. I don't think Percy ever really knew Jamie was "the one" John loved. Percy knew there was someone in Johns life, but John never told him Jamie's name. As far as I can remember, at least...and I completely agree, Heather, about loving John unconditionally. He is such a good person at heart and he always has other peoples' interests in the forefront of his mind. I really, really like him.

I'm currently listening to Dragonfly in Amber on audiobook, and am learning all about the Comte. I'm trying to listen carefully to Claire's description of him, and it sounds like he could be Fergus's father. But who knows what Diana has up her sleeve. That woman astounds me!! How she is able to keep all those ideas and characters straight in her head is beyond me.

I want to write more, but am at work...perhaps later. =)

I know what you mean Rachel about keeping all those characters and ideas straight. I had read an article about another author who has cards about each person and family trees on a peg board when she's writing for reference. Maybe she does the same thing.

I think characters are easier. What about when DG writes about a character picking up a spoon and 13 chapters later the character puts down the spoon! HOW does she remember that!!!! I forgot about the darn spoon two sentences later.

Heather wrote: "I think characters are easier. What about when DG writes about a character picking up a spoon and 13 chapters the character puts down the spoon! HOW does she remember that!!!! I forgot about the da..."

Well, they are her babies and she is so attuned to them just like all beings are to their own creations. Although she does say that they take on lives of their own and she sometimes can't control them. I sometimes can't control my kids either but I am still attuned to them... but remembering to have a character put down a spoon after 13 chapters - she is truly gifted!

Actually DG very often forgets where her characters are in a scene. How they're standing or sitting or which way they're facing. I'ved had more than one confused moment in relation to where she's put someone one minute and where they are the next.

Also, in the scene where Jamie gets his astrolabe Claire talks about how long it's been since she knew the time, when previously it's written that there is a clock in the big, white house.

Rachel wrote: "I never found John to be promiscuous. He actually hasn't had very many love affairs. Yea, he may have fooled around with a couple of men here and there, but he has only loved three people. Hecto..."

John is promiscuous. Don't forget his boinking his cook as well. Then there was his coming out of the slave quarters with his chimes rung, as Brianna noted. Not exactly a bastion of self-control.

I never liked LJ because of the tension and sometimes confusion he caused Claire. Obviously the author enjoys writing about this character but...I lost all respect for him when he returned from the slave quarters, especially since I wouldn't have any respect for anyone coming out of the slave quarters...

Yes! I was thinking...what the heck? Was the slave in a position to say "No, thanks."? I don't think so.

And as far as LJ being Jamie's friend. Is he really? I mean really? Everything he's done he's done because of his crush on Jamie. Can you imagine another woman hanging about who had done all these things for Jamie because she loved him and that being tolerated just because Jamie doesn't return the feeling? I don't think so. Claire should put him in his place. I would have loved to have read that.
"Stay away from my household, b*tch!". :)

For some reason I don't remember that at all, with the slave. Was that in Echo? I read that book so fast, that's probably why I don't remember. But still, John is a man, and men are constantly thinking about sex. It doesn't surprise me that he is finding places where he can get some, including the chef. Surprisingly, he doesn't find it very often at all in the LJG books. I just finished the last book last night, so perhaps thats why I don't think he's very promiscuous (those books being so fresh in my mind). He really doesn't have very many relations. But imagine how difficult it was for gay men back in the day. Especially gay men in high military or political standing. Like what happened to Percy in BOTB, he was condemned to death because he was caught in the act. And regarding the friendship, I'm sure Jamie wouldn't consider John his best friend or anything, but Jamie does appreciate him. They did become close in Ardsmuir, if only superficially. It's clear that John feels the friendship is much stronger than Jamie does. But I think if Jamie were to speak of John, he would describe him as "a friend".

Heather, did you read the last LJG book? Or anyone for that matter - the one with the three short stories? I really liked this book a lot. And I was really touched by the letters John wrote in the last short story, and then burned. I'm excited for the next LJG book, especially because of the title: Lord John and the Scottish Prisoner. =)

And just to reiterate how amazing Diana is. As everyone on all these threads have pointed out. I've recently (within the last 5 years or so) started my love affair with books, so I'm not about to say I've read tons of authors. But I've never read any book (or series) where people are so divided and passionate on particular characters, theories, story-lines, etc. It's so incredible. My friend Maria really, really, really dislikes Claire. Yet, she keeps reading them!! I love hearing everyone's point of view, some of them I agree with, some of them make me even more passionate with disagreement. I've personally only had a problem with one main character, and that is Brianna. She bugs me...or, I should say bugged me, as she's grown on me since ABOSAA. Alright, that's my two cents. Now I should probably start working... =)

I agree with you about Lord John. He looks for some companionship when he can find it - probably when someone else gives him the eye - but he's not constantly whoring around. I really liked his books too, especially when I had read all of the Outlander books and just thought he was a so-so character. He really grew on me.

Rachel, I did read the third book with all three stories. I was pleading for John to send that letter. I was so frustrated when he set it afire. I just wanted his devotion to be heard.
You know he also had another relationship that I forgot about. He had a relationship with George Everett. I believe he is the same guy who introduced him to the Lavender House and was also the person who extended that crazy invite to the Hellfire Club? Was that not weird, the ritual that took place in the basement of the Hellfire Club? When he ends up in a locked room with blood all over him and a dead woman or man, I forget? That was another time Harry Quarry was there to help John. I think it was in Lord John and the Hand of Devils novel. Was that written as one of John’s experiences to go with the theme of the book or was there a larger picture to that story? This is the book I decided to reread over the weekend.

Carolyn if you can shed better light : )

Yea, it was frustrating that he didn't send the letter. But, I don't think John feels comfortable sending it after the last conversation him and Jamie had in the stables at Helwater in BOTB. That conversation was so intense...I felt bad for John, because he reacted and didn't think about the words coming out of his mouth. I'm surprised Jamie didn't beat him to a pulp! And I do remember now about Everett, and yes, that was crazy! So, I'm a total nerd, and I watch ghost hunters...but it was really cool because I saw the end of an episode the other week that took place in the Hellfire Caves...thought THAT was pretty cool!! =) I'm going to have to look it up online and watch the whole episode. AND, what about the weird sexual tension between John and that German guy...what was his name? Stephan Von Nomtzen or something like that? I wonder if Diana will bring Stephen into the picture at all in some other books, but now that he has no arm, maybe not since he probably won't be in the thick of things. And I think the LJ and the Hellfire Club was written to go with the theme of that particular book. I thought I read something in the introduction about that. When you re-read Hand of Devils this weekend, definitely read the intro. It will shed some light. =) And Harry always seems to come to the rescue, doesn't he? I hope Diana brings him back in the next book and perhaps him and John see Jamie. That would make for an interesting conversation. I'm SOOO glad I found other people that like John!! Yay!! =)

Huh? LOL - I'm blanking on all of that.

I'm wondering, is the fact of him being 'promiscuous' an issue because of his sexual orientation..? Men in that era, 'whored' around on a regular basis.. when ever, and where ever! (Many maintain that mentality in this day in age.) Most men were not the poster boy for commitment and virtue as our man Jamie is. I guess for myself, one's sexual preferance and actions involving those preferances have never been an issue worthy of my judgement. To each their own.

As far as his friendship with Jamie.. In my opinion, Yes.. He is Jamie's friend.. and next to Claire one of the very few left he can unquestionably (not a word, I know) trust, since he lost many in Culloden. His love and devotion for Jamie is a non issue. He knows nothing would ever come of it, yet he remains loyal to Jamie. To me, that is the epitome of friendship...

Agree with you 100%! =)

And...Jaime trusted John to raise his only son. How much closer can two people be? I think Jaime and John trust each other with their lives and the lives of the ones they love.

I for one love unpredictable plots, twists and turns. I gasped out loud when I read the LJ/Claire sex scene. Loved it! Never saw that coming and can't wait to read what happens next.

I don't think it would matter who was seen leaving the slave quarters, sexual orientation, male or female, old or young, with Jamie, honor is everything. He's been raped and he is opposed to slavery. So, for him, I'm guessing it would matter a great deal that someone (whoever it was) was taking advantage of a situation or a person.

It was Brianna who saw LJ. I believe the story would have taken a major turn had it been Jamie seeing LJ leave the slave quarters not Brianna. To this point Jamie knows very little about LJ's life. Other than what the author wants Jamie to know or see or hear.

Perhaps the two things we can all agree on is: we won't agree on POV and we can try all we want to predict what happens next but you never quite know.....I would never have guessed LJ and Claire together in a million years and I'm still having nightmares about it. lol

Hey, Susan, or whoever knows...can you post what page-ish or chapter that part is where John walks out of the slave quarters? I want to look that up in my book as I can't, for the life of me, remember that part. If you don't know or don't want to take the time to page through 900-odd pages to find it, no worries. I'm just really curious. =)

And I will agree with you on one thing...the LJ/Claire thing. I really, really didn't like that. I kinda wished Diana never even put that in. Never had Claire become a spy, but, oh well. It will make for entertaining quarrels between the characters, though. I'm really anxious to find out why Johns' liver hurts! (Posted in the Book 8 excerpts on Diana's blog.)

It was in Drums of Autumn, when Bree was pregnant and thought to blackmail Lord John into marrying her.

I'm going to have to re-read that part.. Cause I remember something about that, but never got the impression it was washed in a negative light.. ie' rape, etc etc. I thought it read LJG was with someone sexually, period. If it was rape... then I agree.. eww. Horrible, ugly and bad. If it didn't specify that it was.. who's to say he just didn't have a good thing going, with a willing slave? (There were some of those, who were willing, and even fancied themselves in love) Like I said, I don't really remember that part.. so I will re-read. Maybe I missed something...

Really? I'd bet you would be hard pressed to find gay slaves back then. The culture they would have come from would not accept that at all. And just imagine one giving LJ 'the eye'. His Lordship going off bonking a slave. There's a classy fellow. Ugh.

Sometimes I think that readers are so eager to appear not homophobic that they excuse behaviors. Which is like 'well, he's gay so we'll overlook that'. I don't. And I don't think he'd do for Jamie any of the things he's done if he didn't have feelings for him in a sexual way.

I disagree with the idea that LJ was promiscuous.It seems he was quite careful. First of all he is too afraid of being hurt and secondly, he is afraid of disclosure. The army is not very forgiving about those kind of charges. He doesn't just approach others without some indication from them that there is interest. In fact, it was the cook, Manoke, who "made his desires known" to LJ, to his surprise.
As to Jaime trusting LJ, remember they resumed their friendship after Willie's birth; Jaime realized LJ had done the best he could for him after Ardsmure. LJ proved to be a very good friend to Jaime many times over. So, it will be exciting to see how the situation with Claire plays out.
I like LJ for his sense of humor; his sense of honor; and his perspective is always an interesting one.

LJ is definitely not a rapist. I have the impression that all of his encounters are mutual. He seems like an honorable man, doesn't visit the brothels and is respectful of others. I know everyone doesn't agree, but I can't imagine Jaime being friends with someone who was a promiscuous, rapist - let alone letting the man raise his only son.

I also think it isn't an unbelievable thing that there were gay men in Africa back in the 1700s. Homosexuality is universal, and in all the hundreds of thousands of slaves that were shipped over to America, there had to be at least a a good percentage of them. And this sexual behavior was probably the only thing they enjoyed in the life that American's created for them, so I would think they would seek it out when they could. And that goes for both hetero and homosexuals.

I also can't believe that LJ is a rapist. If he had that type of personality he would have taken Jamie up on the offer of sex in return for taking care of his son. He declined the offer because he knew the feelings were not mutual. Therefore I believ he is incapable of raping someone for the same reason. Not crazy about Lord John but don't think he is a rapist.

I just can't imagine anybody that has been raped going out and raping someone else. Maybe a really sick psychotic being but John is clearly not. I have to look the statistics up on that. Point I’m trying to make is that DG may put us in tail spins but she does keep true to human nature.
I gathered both parties where willing parties.

Exactly.. I'm not trying to go out of my way to NOT be 'homophobic'.. I don't need to try, because I'm not. I'm not making excuses because he's gay, nor am I judging him because of it. He's a person, regardless of his sexual orientations. Also being 'gay' wasnt invented, in like the 20th century... I'm fairly certain homosexuality, has been happening since the dawn of time... Roman History?? Case and point... and yes, Slaves, are sexual beings too, just as much as anyone else.... They could just as easily, 'give the eye' to someone like LJG, as anyone else.. Being a Slave make you about as less of a human, in my eyes, as being gay.. In other words.. not less at all.

I'm not sure how we jumped to LJ being a rapist. He just lost any esteem he had with me when the author wrote him as coming out of the slave quarters.

The point is, it was the slave quarters. Whether it was mutual consent or not, it was still the slave quarters...in other words, how much consent did a slave actually have? It would have been better had LJ had sex with someone who wasn't a slave is all I'm saying.

LJ lost most of his cool points with me after that. He has none left now that he had sex with Claire. Darn that DG. lol

Heather wrote: "I just can't imagine anybody that has been raped going out and raping someone else. Maybe a really sick psychotic being but John is clearly not. I have to look the statistics up on that. Point I’m ..."

Statistics vary from 40-80% of people who are sexually assaulted go on to assault someone else, although 90-some % of people who sexually assault have been abused in some way. There are a bunch of reasons for that but no reason to go into them here. A minority are psychotic. Unless DG makes LJ turn like Mr. and Mrs. Bug turned, he is not psychotic. However, he should not have sex with a slave because even if consensual, the slave had no true power to consent because of the imbalance of power between him and LJ. So even if was not rape, it was exploitation. Shame on LJ. I still like him though and feel bad for his position as a gay man of high military status of that time. As others have said, norms were way different then, so I am judging his actions by current standards, which is really not right. Sorry for the soapbox but this is my area.

Mairicat, Thank you so much! I normal don't say anything without doing some research. Sometimes I don't look things up because I end up spending hours fascinated bad or good.

I have to say that I do not recall the whole part of the story when he was coming out of the slave quarters? I thought he was spotted coming from the out-house. I've searched and can't find it. Please if anyone knows. Please share.

Heather wrote: "Mairicat, Thank you so much! I normal don't say anything without doing some research. Sometimes I don't look things up because I end up spending hours fascinated bad or good.

I have to say that ..."

I'm with you Heather, I don't recall that part either. Atleast not with any certainty.. My comments are based strictly on a speculative basis... I will have to re-read that part as well.

Also, the part where a slave wouldn't willingly engage in relations with..(I sounded a little like Clinton there... lol).. there are stories all throughout history, where people pf 'higher' status, have love affairs, with the 'lower' class, ie; slaves, etc, etc. These were frowned upon, and kept under wraps, but it was more common than we think. Some slaves, were more than willing in these affairs. If anyone takes advantage of the slave/owner (horrible) relationship... Yes, that is unforgivable. However, as the reader none of us know what the situation was.. DG obviouly left that open for us to analyze. She is always successful in the 'Make us think' dept..

Reading over some of the comments and resposes, I would hope some of you hadn't taken offence in what I've shared, after all it is only my opinion. I think for the most part we are all very respectful, and 'politically correct' in the expressions of our views.. I admit, I jumped in with verocity, due to a few comments, that came across 'anti-gay', Seeing how I am of a strong belief, that a person, is a person, is a person... Felt like I needed to defend the old boy... Lol.

Regardless.. Whether you love him, or hate him. Whether you support his lifestyle, or loathe it.. Whether you think him evil, or just see him as a loyal friend... The fact remnains, he is an awesome character.. written extremely well, by the always amazing Diana Gabaldon...

This thread itself, personifies her fantastic ability, to weave an intelligent, and riveting story, and get all our blood boiling..

That's the point, after all...

Rachel wrote: "Hey, Susan, or whoever knows...can you post what page-ish or chapter that part is where John walks out of the slave quarters? I want to look that up in my book as I can't, for the life of me, reme..."

Rachel,
I think I found it. I haven't read through yet but it is in Drums of Autumn, Chapter 58, Lord John Returns, River Run, March 1770. Let's see! :)

Sweet!! Thanks for finding it! Unfortunately, i'm housesitting and don't have my books. But i'll reread that as soon as I get back home! =)

Rachel wrote: "Sweet!! Thanks for finding it! Unfortunately, i'm housesitting and don't have my books. But i'll reread that as soon as I get back home! =)"

Correction, I read 58. Good Chapter but nothing there. Chapter 59 Blackmail. I am thinking maybe it is apart of her Blackmail.

I want to share Chapter 59 in Drums of Autumn. Awesome chapter and suggest everyone to read it. It is very clear that Grey was coming out of the slave quarters. It was made clear what he was doing there but in no way does it affect what LJG means to me.
This chapter may have been the chapter that took my feelings from, I really LIKE LJG to I really LOVE LJG.

To recap the chapter this may help previous discussions. It is clearly noted that Jamie thinks John as one of his best friends. Jon was telling Bree why he could not marry her.
“What for?” she demanded frowning. “He likes you; he says you’re one of his best friends.”
Then the chapter proceeds to Claire’s feeling. Claire does like Jon but is afraid Jamie can get hurt by Jon. Then the chapter reflects back to Jon and Jamie relationship in Ardsmuir prison. Because of this reminder I grab my other book and reread that whole story line again. Jamie took that flogging for the sake of Jon heart not his. Jamie was doing in for Jon’s feelings.
Is also reminds us of Brianna's desperate motives and the pressure she was under when we feel that Roger went through so much unnecessary torment. When I too felt like she should be kissing Rogers A$$, her approach was an honorable one. It was with the thoughts of Roger and nothing else. (I really wanted to punch her in the nose) but was really glad to reread the whole chapter. In the end LJG proposes to her. Yes it is a façade but she just tried to blackmail him. He is sincere and unselfish man and Chapter 59 is a great reminder! I forgot how much I loved the Drums of Autumn book.