Stephen King Fans discussion

May, Really? Wow time is flying. Who is reading this book? I am also going to movie the Talisman discussions into the monthly book thread so we can discuss that at the same time. That was a book club pick way back in the beginning of this book club so some of you may not have been around to discuss it. I did things a little different then as you will see. There was more then one thread for a book so you will see several threads for The Talisman. Enjoy!

I loved the Talisman and I got so excited when I realized that Black House will be the May-Read of this group. And I'm totally hooked.

I started it a few days early, because I was afraid I wouldn't be able to finish it and now I'm halfway through already. ♥

I don't know how this works, this is the first time I'm taking part in a groupread - so can I just splash out my thoughts or do we go through the book by chapters or pages? I'd hate to spoil anyone's fun by saying something wrong.

Katniss wrote: "I loved the Talisman and I got so excited when I realized that Black House will be the May-Read of this group. And I'm totally hooked.

I started it a few days early, because I was afraid I wouldn..."

As has been pointed out to me, marking a thread *********SPOLIERS BELOW*************
should suffice.

I'm starting The Talisman in the next day or two because I liked it better than Black House, but I am definitely reading BH as soon as I finish it. I just feel they need to be read together.

I'm currently reading The Talisman with the plan being to read BH immediately after.

I've read both Talisman and Black House. Like a lot of people I liked Talisman better, but Black House was good and sufficiently different from Talisman to not feel like re-tread ground. I particularly liked the criminal aspect of Black House - which I think is more Straub's influence than Kings.
One thing I didn't like about Black House was just how perfect Jack was. I understood the point of his perfection - but I could help finding it irritating and a little plastic. I feel that King excells when he is writing about a more average person in extraordinary cirucmstances, rather than an extraordinary person who is fighting to live an average life.

I'll definitely join in on this month's group read. I'm listening to The Talisman now and expected to be finished by now, but I still have about 1/5 to go. I'm considering downloading Black House from Audible too, since I love listening to audiobooks while I'm out walking.

Katniss wrote: "I loved the Talisman and I got so excited when I realized that Black House will be the May-Read of this group. And I'm totally hooked.
"

Katniss, I totally agree. Although I think the "Talisman" was written better, stylistically -- It was "The Black House" that I've read four times now!

Just finished Black House and I definitly have to say, that I like this one even more than the Talisman. It's completly different, but also the same. I enjoyed the Dark Tower references as much as the references to the Talisman itself. Although it's not quite about the Territories anymore. It's about this world and this world's monster. Can't wait for King and Straub to get started on the next sequel. Which clearly will be, once again, more about the Territories.

Katniss wrote: "Although it's not quite about the Territories anymore. It's about this world and this world's monster. "

Sounds good to me! I'm almost finished with The Talisman and I have quite a lot of problems with the Territories, so perhaps I'll enjoy Black House better!

Yes, I'm almost sure you'll enjoy it more!

It's nice that Peter Straub is a Goodreads author!

I've just finished The Talisman, but I really don't feel up to Black House now. I need to read something else in between. But I'll probably join in on the group read in June.

The differences between "Talisman" and "Black House" are substantial. I've always tended to view Talisman as the "lighter" of the books, although I do think it's better written. The styles of the two authors are much more blended in the Talisman than they are in Black House. That said, I think that in Black House, not only does Jack grow up, but the book itself, plot, characters, etc. grows up as well.

Bondama wrote: "The differences between "Talisman" and "Black House" are substantial. I've always tended to view Talisman as the "lighter" of the books, although I do think it's better written. The styles of the..."

I agree with this completely, and I will just add that the voice changes as well. The beginning is a little slow with a sort of omnipresent narrator showing you around, but after that, it picks up. I can't wait to read these again!

Bondama wrote: "The differences between "Talisman" and "Black House" are substantial."

Yes they are! That's why I think, that even people who did not quite enjoy The Talisman will be able to like Black House. It's so different and as I said before: I prefer it. I also agree about the fact, that Talisman is better written. But characters, plot - everything else ;) is better in Black House.

I prefer the Talisman but Black House is still full of great characters and scenes. I happen to think that opening scene is a very nice way to set the plot. I consider it one of the better such scenes I've ever read like the beginning of The Church of Dead Girls by Stephen Dobyns. I catches you right away.

Amanda, I do have to disagree completely on you about the opening of Black House -- I got so incredibly tired of the "omnipresent narrator" I almost quit the book -- luckily, I guess King took over for a while (it's a character flaw, I know, but I always want to think that he wrote the better parts. Whoever created the blind man Henry is genius -- Straub or King?

Bondama wrote: "Amanda, I do have to disagree completely on you about the opening of Black House -- I got so incredibly tired of the "omnipresent narrator" I almost quit the book -- luckily, I guess King took over..."

My brother has just started his first SK book and he tells me he feels that King spends too much time describing things when he needs to get on with the plot. He's a bit spoiled ( he's a getting a late start on being a reader) though having started with Nietzsche and Cormac Maccarthy who both clearly thought getting to the point was best.

I enjoy a slow stroll into a plot and getting to know the turf and the people when I read something (not that sleeker prose isn't also good). I liked the starkness of the scene and so that's why I felt it was good. I guess imagery is a big aspect of a story for me as a reader and an author so it doesn't bother me to take time like that. I'm odd like that.

My husband says the exact same thing as Amanda's brother about King. Obviously, I strongly disagree.

Huh. Interesting. If King ever goes the way of Cormac McCarthy, I'm throwing in the towel.

I'm glad to hear that Black House is different from The Talisman and that many of you prefer BH. That's encouraging!

I'm about 100 pages into Black House and loving it. I seem to be one of the few that wasn't a huge fan of The Talisman. It was good and all...I'm one of those Constant Reader's that loves all King, just some more than others. I first read The Talisman back when it came out, but about halfway through I had to take a break. I'm not sure why, just needed a break. I picked it back up a few months later and zipped through, liking it enough. I reread it when Black House came out, figuring it would help me remember and I could go right into Black House. Unfortunately, I didn't like it any better and after I finished, I didn't have the heart to go right into a "sequel". So, I finally picked up Black House and I love it. Of course, I'm not far into it yet, but I love the conversational tone of it. I'm sorry that I waited so long. :)

Kathy wrote: "I love the conversational tone of it. "

YES! This is what I love about the beginning too, I just didn't know how to describe it. That's what it is, exactly. :)

I finished BH and it was OK, I gave it a 3.

Like Kathy, I also had to take a break halfway through The Talisman, but once I got to the third part, I couldn't put it down. It never got to that point with BH. I never felt the supense or the horror.

I will still read the sequel, if it comes out.

I'm a couple of pages into BH. I love the Talisman, but this one...not so much. If I'm fair and stop comparing it to T it's an excellent read. I just don't love adult Jack. He's a bit of a coward. It feels like he should be very different as a man after all he did and went through as a young boy, and that's what bugs me.

The narrative voice of the beginning is not my favorite, either. I don't mind the "bird's eye view", it's simply that when King uses it alone I feel that a fondness he has for his characters creeps in. This particular voice is very removed and dry. It may not be true, but it's one of the few instances (other than DT references) that I really feel Straub's influence.

I'm liking it. I'm getting more comfortable with the voice and some story is starting to kick in. I'm just past page 100. I did see a whole page of editorial error where Judy's husband is called "Dale". Three times on one page. That was distracting, but mostly an OCD issue with me. I actually missed it the first time, but caught it the second. And then the third screamed at me. This is all on page 110 of the hardcover. If you have another edition and can't find it from that, pm me and I'll tell you what scene it is. I'm really trying to avoid spoilers.

Though I made the huge mistake of going into the Talisman: Part 4 thread in this group. DO NOT do that if you have not read this book before. There's a spoiler in there that could kill the whole book. It's marked as a spoiler, but the way it shows up on the screen, I had read the spoiler before I had read the warning.

Kandice wrote: "I'm a couple of pages into BH. I love the Talisman, but this one...not so much. If I'm fair and stop comparing it to T it's an excellent read. I just don't love adult Jack. He's a bit of a coward. ..."

I can understand how you are feeling about Jack now. I think you will understand why his experience as a 12 year child seems not to have left any mark on him when you read a litter more...

Oh, I've read it before, I am just very good at "forgetting" things when I do a re-read and trying to see the characters anew each time.

Sometimes when I read a book the faces of the characters are "blurry", which doesn't affect my enjoyment at all. Other times I can invent my own perfectly formed face from what the writer gives me, and still other times the faces of people I know or famous people insert themselves. Once a face gets stuck in my head I can't shake it. With Black House, I can NOT picture adult Jack as anyone other than Kyle Machlan when he played Dale Cooper on Twin Peaks.


http://images1.cliqueclack.com/tv/wp-...

I think that Jack's adventures as a young boy definitely shaped the kind of man he became. I just think that in order to protect himself, after the adventure, he convinced himself it was a dream because it started to feel a bit unreal the further away it got into his past. He purposely made himself forget the whole thing for this reason. But the further he got involved in the Fisherman case, the more he was forced to remember and focus on what happened in his past. I don't blame him for trying to forget. It all seemed so unreal. It was a way to protect his sanity. The further away it got, the crazier it seemed!

I completely agree with you, Kathy, about his forgetting and why he did. What bugs me, is that I feel courage is an inherant trait. Forgetting his adventures shouldn't have hidden his courage, and the Jack at the beginning of the story is a coward. That sounds harsh, and I know he knocks that crap off after he gets the "special delivery" but it just seems unlikely to me. You can forget what you've done, but not who you really are, if that makes sense.

I actually don't think that Jack forced himself to forget, I think that the Talisman allowed his memories to fade away so that Jack could try to have a normal life again after doing what he needed to do and suffering the losses he suffered. Remember on the ride back from California Richard was saying that things were starting to fade and he couldn't remember everything that happened. That kind of experience is traumatic enough for adults, but imagine trying to grow up with the knowledge that you held the universe - ALL of the universes - in your hand. That's DAUNTING and can make for a very lonely existance because nobody can understand that. So I think the Talisman gave Jack the gift of forgetting... until he needed to remember again.

I never felt that he was a coward. The few times, the memories crept forward, I think he just didn't want to remember, so he subconsciously stepped back from whatever he was doing to prevent it from totally coming forward. This was to protect his sanity. I definitely don't feel that caution means coward. He retired after the crime scene at the amusement park, because it made him start to remember and everything inside of him rebelled against that. I don't call that cowardice at all! And when he recieved the package....how would anyone respond? I don't feel that he acted cowardly. Come on, a human foot was sitting on his doorstep!

Becky, I see what you are saying, but the few times, the memories tried to creep forward....he definitely fought to keep things buried....maybe unintentionally, but he did.

I agree with Kathy -- I never felt any sense that Jack had any coward in him. Remember, one of the main premises of "It" is that all of the main characters forget virtually everything until Penny shows up again.

What I felt was cowardice was his refusal to help with the disappearance of the children. I never felt his retirement was cowardice, but that was just...ridiculous and makes me mad when I think of it. I've read it before, so I KNOW he ends up doing what's right, but it still upsets me in the beginning. Refusing to help with the Fisherman has nothing to do with being afraid of his memories. I know they are connected, but since those memories are buried, HE doesn't know that when Dale first asks for help.

Kathy wrote: "Becky, I see what you are saying, but the few times, the memories tried to creep forward....he definitely fought to keep things buried....maybe unintentionally, but he did."

Yes, but I think any of us would. Just because they fade in our normal lives doesn't mean that they are GONE. Just buried so that they don't bother us. Who would want to remember that kind of stuff if we could avoid it?

I also agree with Kathy that Jack isn't a coward. I love Jack, and I think that any "coward" seen is just him trying to live a normal life. Sometimes heroes just don't want to be.

Oh, and I don't feel the repression of the memories was cowardly either. I agree with Becky that the Talisman helped with that and it was neccesary for Jack's well being mentally. It's other stuff that bugs me.

Maybe I'm just hyper-critical.

It was my thinking that because he had touched the talisman, he had a knack for getting at the truth and solving these horrendous crimes. His business was murder and he was really godo at finding the guilty party. I think he was just so done with being surrounded by death and murder and was burnt out from it! I don't think his wanting to stay retired was a horrible thing. In the beginning, who knew it would grow to be the problem it did. In the beginning he felt Dale would and could handle it. When it became obvious that that wasn't the case he came on board. I don't blame him for hesitating, though. He is only human.

Kandice wrote: "Maybe I'm just hyper-critical."

Well... :P

Jack is 100% human. Any boy, and then a man put into a situation where he is asked to be so much more would hesitate and be afraid. If he wasn't, I think I would then not like him nearly as much as I do. I love Jack for all his imperfections as well as his bravery and heart!

Did anyone notice that the place that Jack retired to is almost a kind of mini-Point Venuti? I mean, with an Agincourt and everything...? It's like he's drawn to where he needs to be when he needs to be there. Like his Ka is making sure that he's able to be there to throw a wrench in the gears when it's needed...

I didn't catch that, but then its been awhile since I read Talisman. :(

Becky wrote: "Did anyone notice that the place that Jack retired to is almost a kind of mini-Point Venuti? I mean, with an Agincourt and everything...? It's like he's drawn to where he needs to be when he needs ..."

Yes, I did, and I think that is also the lasting influence of the Talisman. Even though it's gone, he did for it what needed to be done and it's still "caring" for him. That's how it seems to me, anyway.

And :P:P:P:PP:PP:PP to your :P

♥ ya anyway.

♥.

I think you're right about the lasting influence of the Talisman. I think that she (I always think of it as female - but even though I just read the book I can't remember if it was described that way - I don't think it was) kind of guides him and watches him... She's his Ka.

One thing is that I absolutely loathe Wendell Green! I know we are supposed to, but as soon as he enters a scene, I almost want to put it down, I hate him so much! lol

LOL

Weird, but I always think of it as her as well. Most of the time when a "THING" is a character in a story I assign it gender because it's easier for me to feel for it that way. I saw the Talisman as gentle which usually equates to female-ness for me.

I love when we agree and didn't even know it.