Flight 815-ers Unite discussion
***SPOILERS****
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The Series Finale
Yeah... the finale was awesome until the last 10-15 minutes or so. I feel like they invalidated a lot of stuff by making the flash sideways purgatory. :(
Aww, it makes me sad that you guys were disappointed. :o( Rachel, did you think they invalidated a lot of stuff from the whole show, or just season 6?Maybe I'll be the only one, but I liked the ending very much and thought it was fitting.
I though it was good until the last 5 min then it became awesome!I liked how everything was sweet and happy and ok:)
The problem I think that Rachel has is they have all this stuff that is not even important but it seemed like it was suposed to be:)
Mostly just season 6. It's hard for me to see that they all had a happy ending, because none of that stuff happened. Plus, when you think of the whole island storyline, what was the point? Did Jack actually stop something world-ending from happening? Or did he just stop the island from shaking enough so that the plane could get off. What did Hurley and Ben do for the rest of time? There was no more smoke monster - were people still crashing on the Island? Did Kate & Sawyer's plane make it to land? Did they live long, happy lives? Did they get together, since each of their "true loves" were dead? Did Claire get custody of Aaron? Or was she indeed crazy, and locked up in a loony bin? Did Desmond somehow make it off the island to Penny and his son? In the end, I just have so many more questions.Overall, I did enjoy the finale, and I certainly cried at points. It just didn't wrap up like I particularly wanted. But maybe I'm just pissed because Jack died. ;) I'll give it some time and watch it again and be happy-ish, I suppose. It's certainly better than the Battlestar Galactica finale, which I thought had a horrible ending.
Rachel wrote: "Mostly just season 6. It's hard for me to see that they all had a happy ending, because none of that stuff happened. Plus, when you think of the whole island storyline, what was the point? Did Jack..."These are just some of my thought/observations:
I think Jack's sacrifice saved humanity. Regarding the light in the cave: it is said to be a physical manifestation of "life, death, [and:] rebirth". Humans are said to covet the Heart because a little bit of the very same light is inside every man—"but they always want more". According to Mother, while humans are incapable of taking the light, their attempts to do so could "put it out. And if the light goes out here... it goes out everywhere." ("Across the Sea") [from Lostpedia:]
When it came to Hurley and Ben - yeah, there was no longer a smoke monster to keep contained, but the island needed protecting long before the man in black was turned into Smokey. It needed to be protected from people (like the Dharma Initiative, Danielle's team, Whidmore's team, etc.). People have been both purposefully and accidentally ending up on that island for a long time, and I think people will continue to do so.
I am assuming (and I think we are meant to) that Frank's plane made it off the island safely. Since they leave it up to us to imagine how those passengers lives play out, I will assume that they lived as happily ever after as possible. :oP I do have to say, I was so freaking happy that Richard got off the island, and that he got the chance to live a normal non-eternal life.
I got the impression that Desmond did get back to Penny and Charlie, because of the whole conversation Ben and Hurley had about not having to do things the same way as Jacob did them. We don't see how it happened, but I think it did.
Did you guys watch the Kimmel interview after? I laughed my ass off. I really love those people and I'm going to miss them.
Yeah, I think I'm with the consensus on on this one... Great until the last 5 minutes.It seemed to easy. In my mind them being dead is only a step above them being in a dream, although maybe I'm just not understanding what happened correctly.
I did like where Juliet and Sawyer were talking and she says about going dutch - which is what she's saying right before she dies. - - - and the last thing she told Miles was, "It worked."
Maybe I just got Lori's ending in my mind. Locke and Jack sitting on the beach... and so I was working it that way in my mind and couldn't reconcile this new ending...
Yeah, I wasn't as blown away by the ending as I hoped to be. I agree with Philip, that being dead is not much better than them being in a dream. I also think that Lori's ending would have been way cool. :)But I'm still a little confused. So everything that happened on the island was real, and the flashsideways was real at the same time? Or that the stuff on the island happened first and the flashsideways was the purgatory, after the stuff on the island? If so, what happened with Lapidis and Kate and Sawyer and Claire and Richard and Miles? They left the island on the plane? Sorry, but this is still confusing me!! :P
Or that the stuff on the island happened first and the flashsideways was the purgatory, after the stuff on the island?^^^^^ This. I don't believe the bomb created an alternate timeline (it just looked that way to us). The bomb just served to get the remaining Losties back to present time. Boone, Shannon, Charlie, Libby, Michael, Ana Lucia, Juliet, Sun, Jin, Sayid, Faraday, Charlotte, Whidmore, Eko, and Jack (I know I'm forgetting someone) all really died on the island, in the manner in which we saw them die throughout the series. Locke was really killed by Ben in the motel room (*sob* Moment of silence for Locke). Sawyer, Kate, Claire, Richard, Miles, and Lapidus all make it off the island in the plane and live an indeterminate amount of time back in the "real world". Hurley and Ben stayed to protect the island. And I'm assuming Hurley got Desmond back to the outside world to live out the rest of his life with Penny and his son.
I guess I don't feel like them being dead is like it all being a dream because all of their island experiences really happened. And for the Oceanic 6, their off island experiences too. So many of them were leading crap lives before the crash, and they really had a chance to redeem themselves before they died - and forge incredible connections with a group of strangers that were ultimately instrumental in that redemption. And then they got to be together again "after".
However, I would feel like it was akin to "it was all a dream" if they would have all died in the initial crash.
***Again, just my opinion and perspective***** I don't know why I feel the need to keep adding that, I just don't want anyone to think I'm arguing a point or anything, lol
I still have to watch the Jimmy Kimmel interviews - I was driving home from Seattle during that time, and then had to get up to my sister-in-law's. I'm certainly not as pissed as I would be if it had ALL been a dream. This is far different to me. I guess I just feel sort of tricked because they set up all these over-the-top happy endings, got me all excited and happy for these characters who have become my friends, and then sort of ripped out the rug from under me when I learned that none of them got to live those happy lives. That was never their truth. Jack never having a son seems like the biggest hurt.
And it finally came to me - the literary equivalent of what I feel right now is what I felt when I finished Life of Pi - tricked and confused and slightly embarrassed for having believed it was all true.
And don't worry, Cait, I don't think you are trying to argue a point. :) It's nice to get your perspective, and maybe it will help talk me off the ledge. ;)
I got the impression that when Jack asked his father at the church if everyone was dead, he said no, some were and some would be later. Maybe I misunderstood. I think some of them did get to live out a happy life with their loved ones. Jack made the ultimate sacrific by staying on the island and stopping the smoke monster and fixing the light source. When Jack saw the plane flying overhead in the final scene, that made me think the electromagnetic field was gone and wouldn't be a threat anymore since that plane didn't crash. Jack sort of smiled when he saw the plane. I thought the final scene was so moving and emotional. I couldn't stop thinking about it today. I am so going to miss this show and the characters, even though there were definitely questions they never answered.
Yeah, I did kinda like how it ended with Jack's eye closing, instead of how in the Pilot, his eye was opening. I really loved this show, with all it's twists and surprises. The characters have become some of my favorites ever! I mean, it went on for six years, six seasons, and over 100 episodes. It really is a phenomenon. Such an incredible idea, and it turned out to be an incredible show. Also, I loved the fight between Locke and Jack. I think it was so intense when Jack yelled, "LOCKE!" And the Lockeness Monster turned and they just ran at each other ontop of that cliff, with the rain pouring and...ah man, it was awesome. :D
I thought it was the best series finale ever! I loved how they called back to so many of the great moments throughout the series. And I liked how they brought everything full circle from the very first moment with Jack in the bamboo field, Vincent, and Jack's eye as the closing shot. I didn't see it as "purgatory" where the flash-sideways characters went. Did they ever call it that? It was a church! And they were all happy to be there. I just can't see that as purgatory.
Rachel said, "And it finally came to me - the literary equivalent of what I feel right now is what I felt when I finished Life of Pi - tricked and confused and slightly embarrassed for having believed it was all true. I didn't get that out of The Life of Pi. I believe Pi, and not the Japanese. (I don't want to say too much here for fear of the spoilers...)
But what you said made me think about LOST. Maybe we get to choose what to believe.
Luann wrote: "I thought it was the best series finale ever! I loved how they called back to so many of the great moments throughout the series. And I liked how they brought everything full circle from the very f..."Luann, I thought the purgatory was more the flash-sideways "lives" they were living up until the point where they remembered their real lives on the island.
Where the Flocke is Jessica? :o) I want to know what she thought of it.
Mod
And that maybe, when the others died, or die, they will have similar purgatory sort of lives until they are ready to move on.
I dunno. Ive been thinking about it all day, and I really really do not the like the ending at all.
So upsetting. And not what I thought. Rachel, I have all the same questions you have up there.... nothing feels settled for me. I hate it!
I did like the symmetry of Jack in the bamboo with Vincent, replaying the first scene like that...
Did you guys watch Jimmy Kimmel? They alluded to the show basically being Jack's story, which would kind of make sense. It started with him - with his eye opening.
Cait wrote: "Where the Flocke is Jessica? :o) I want to know what she thought of it."I'm here! :o) I was sick yesterday and could hardly get out of bed, but I was thinking about the show and you guys all day.
The more I think about it, I'm pretty satisfied with the ending. At first, my dad thought the writers were implying that everyone was dead since the initial crash, and we had to calm him down before he stormed off raving and cursing like a lunatic.
I like how they kind of left it open for interpretation, because really, the whole show was kind of like that. What other show could we throw around our theories and get involved with like this one?
Like Christian told Jack, there was no "now" in that place, some people had died before him, and others long after him; how Kate told him that she had missed him so much. I took that to mean she got off the island, and led a pretty much normal life, until she passed away. The main thing for me, is that they all found eachother again.
I just had a thought. Not to be retarded, but it's kind of like the end scene in Titanic...
Oh, and Cait...I was DYING when they played "Lost in Your Eyes" on Jimmy Kimmel.
Jessica wrote: "Oh, and Cait...I was DYING when they played "Lost in Your Eyes" on Jimmy Kimmel."Me too! What are the odds... :oD And now it's in my head. Damn that Debbie Gibson!
Amanda wrote: "I just had a thought. Not to be retarded, but it's kind of like the end scene in Titanic..."I've actually used that as a sort of example for people who were confused about the ending.
Like Christian told Jack, there was no "now" in that place, some people had died before him, and others long after him; how Kate told him that she had missed him so much. I took that to mean she got off the island, and led a pretty much normal life, until she passed away. The main thing for me, is that they all found eachother again. Same for me, especially the bolded.
I just realized that I'm really glad I haven't had a chance to watch any of the special features on the dvds of Seasons 2-5. I feel like I still have stuff to look forward to.
Lori wrote: "I mentioned purgatory, because they were all dead. ANd actually, after talking to a new supervisor at work today, I thought she has a great theory on the ending. She thinks the flash sideways was j..."Lori, that sucks. :o( I really am sorry, I know how upsetting it is to have something you've loved and invested so much time in end in a way that you hate.
Hey - there weren't any new books shown in the finale, were there? I totally wasn't paying attention to that. I'm still working on my reading list.
I didn't notice any new ones in the finale either, but I'll re-watch just to make sure. I just checked Lostpedia, and saw they added Dostoevsky's Notes From the Underground. I guess Hurley found a copy of it in Ilana's things after she died.
Jessica wrote: "I didn't notice any new ones in the finale either, but I'll re-watch just to make sure. I just checked Lostpedia, and saw they added Dostoevsky's Notes From the Underground. I guess Hurley found ..."Oh awesome, thanks for checking! I'm thinking I'm going to need to have a Russian summer, with all the Dostoevsky I want to read.
Fun! There's one I can check off right away, then! :) Notes from the Underground isn't my favorite Dostoevsky work, but it's pretty important in Russian lit.I didn't notice any books in the finale, either, by the way. I'll try to pay more attention when I rewatch, too. :)
I loved Notes from the Underground, especially first part!
The end really bugged me. They left too much open for speculation, in my opinion. I didn't like that the whole island escapade was all of the characters . . . dead. How does a character die whilst being dead? This made no sense.And what about the frickin Dharma Initiative? Why were THEY ever on the island, or, why was ANYONE ever on the island? Were THEY all dead, too?
I was highly disapointed.
My interpretation is that they were alive on the island - everything on the island actually happened. I think the overarching point (since it's a character driven show) is that they realized they needed each other to survive. They couldn't make it through anything - especially what they encountered on the island - alone. Prior to the crash they were all strangers. They were all flawed. They were all struggling. Alone. And the island changed all of that.
Yeah, but . . . what about the plane at the end? Was that the ajira plane (like you would think, Amanda) or Oceanic Flight 815 (like I would think?)
Mod
I don't see a reason for it to have been Oceanic 815. And Christian told Jack everything that happened really happened. So I take that to mean the island life was real, up to the point that they all made it off, except Jack, who died there.
When did Christian say that everything actually hapened?
He said it during his talk with Jack in the Church.
Mod
Then proceeded to explain that some of the people in the church died before him, and some long after him. And that the place they were in had "no place" or wasnt now... or something to that effect.
Lori wrote: "I believe it was Ajira, the flight that Kate, Sawyer, Miles, Claire, and Frank were on."And also Richard Alpert. I thought it was interesting that there were six people on the plane! And, as before with the Oceanic 6, there were four males and two females. Kate was the only one in both groups. I was glad Richard finally got to leave after all that time!!
So I don't know if anyone else gets the Entertainment Weekley magazine, but the most recent one (June 4th/11th) had a little article about the Lost finale. It basically summed up/confirmed what everyone has been saying in this group. Here's a snip of the article:(Talking about the Flashsideways)
This Sideways world, with all its convenient character crossings, seemed too good to be true--because it wasn't. In one of the finale's last scenes, Jack's dead father Christian Shephard revealed to his son that Sidewaysland was a limbo: a place for the souls of the castaways to reflect on their experiences and then move together into the afterlife. In other words...it was purgatory! The people there? Dead. Ultimately, the Sideways story line served to embellish the show's core themes (redemption, introspection, letting go of the past), express a spirtual worldview, and forge some undeniably powerful moments.
It goes on to state the obvious: ...Fake Locke was killed, the Island was saved, Richard got to age, and Jack passed the torch of Island guardian to Hurley, with Ben as his No. 2.
So, I guess that should be some-what satisfying? To me, not really. But the producers did reveal that they are going to address some other unanswered questions with special content on the season 6 DVD.
Awesome!
Doc Jensen did an incredibly in-depth recap of the finale on EW.com. I thought it was pretty awesome.Part 1
http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20313...
Part 2
http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20313...
Courtney - I read that about the dvd too. Michael Emerson said that we'll be getting a little more insight into the Hurley/Ben partnership. Yay!
Seth wrote: "Yeah, but . . . what about the plane at the end? Was that the ajira plane (like you would think, Amanda) or Oceanic Flight 815 (like I would think?)"Seth, if you mean the plane they showed when Jack was dying, that was the Oceanic 815 ---- or what was left of it.....just a shot to show that what (IMO)happened on the island really happened, that the plane had really crashed, those characters survived and what happened actually did happen.
Believe it or not, the ending credits were not part of the actual show, according to the L.A. TIMES, as reported on OMG:However, ABC issued a statement Tuesday clarifying that the images over the closing credits were not part of the narrative of the final episode. "The images shown during the end credits of the Lost finale, which included shots of Oceanic 815 on a deserted beach, were not part of the episode but were a visual aid to allow the viewer to decompress before heading into the news," it said.
The news was first reported by The Los Angeles Times.
I just watched the finale today. It was disappointing because the DarlTon spent so much time with the flash sideways and I thought they was important (especially after the episode "Happily Ever After") but after knowing what they were...Yeesh.I wished they tried their damnedest to answer a few important questions.
Like what the hell the Island is or where it is. How come it had that powerful electromagnetic energy.
Also after Jacob pushed his twin into the Cave thingy, Smokey came out...But his twin was really dead? What da hell's going on down there? I'm confused.
Mod
Yeah, I wish that they would have elaborated some more on the Others and the Dharma Initiative. What happened to them? And wait a second, what happened to Rose and her husband? Did they just stay on the Island forever?
If the DarlTon planned to end it the way they did, I think the last episode ever should be about Hurley and Ben and the years they spent on the Island.So many unanswered questions! They shoulda made season 5 tighter. Like maybe they oughta put the episodes Ab Aeterno and Across The Sea (two very brilliant episodes) in season 5. But instead they wasted our time with skies lighting up and people getting nosebleed and whatnot
:(
Mod
I am sure you are sick of hearing me say that. But that is all I can think about. I hate hate hate the fact that the end was them all being dead in this purgatory waiting for one another in order to move on....
That's the only thing that would have made me feel good. I am still so damn frustrated.
Do you think the ending was fitting? Did you see any of that coming?
I have to admit, I was very disappointed that the flash sideways ended up being "purgatory" - a place they hung out after death until someone got them together and moved them on.
I guess it was cool that Desmond got to be the 'shepard' - the one who got to show everyone their lives, and help them come together like that. But I was very upset that this was the route the writers decided to take.
I suppose I also like the fact that Ben decided to wait it out a bit longer, that he still had things to work out. That's Ben, alright!
I should have seen it coming when Sawyer and Juliet were reunited at the vending machine. But I was just too wrapped up in the moment to see it. Hindsight and all....
I like my ending better... Jack and Locke sitting on the beach waiting for the next batch of candidates to come along.
(sigh)