Action Heroine Fans discussion

Our group, of course, celebrates the heroines of action literature, those who stand up for justice and earn our admiration and respect in the process. Of course, some of these characters are rough-edged, and may have their faults (who doesn't?); and they don't have to be on the right side of the law (after all, the sheriff of Nottingham probably had a few outstanding warrants for Maid Marian, as well as for Robin Hood :-)). And some works in this vein feature protagonists who grow from villainess to heroine, so that their tales are stories about moral growth (Xena is a good example). But there's no doubt that the ladies in question are basically decent people, or will end up as such.

Literature also has its female characters, though, as villains and sometimes even as protagonists, who are in the action mold but are basically bad rather than good --characters you root against rather than for. (John Sandford's hit woman character, Clara Rinker, who figures in a couple of his Prey series books --one of which I recently read, and the other of which I'm reading now-- is a prime example.) They don't excite the admiration their upright sisters do --but for some fans, they undeniably exert a degree of fascination. (Some fans of fighting females in literature and film, etc., actually prefer the villainous types as characters, though I don't myself.)

Some of that fascination with the dark side, I think, comes from the awareness that the divide between good and evil runs through all of us, not just between people; in evil characters, we subconsciously see a relevant moral warning for ourselves of what we could become, or have become, if we didn't choose better. And conversely, even very dark characters may have some good in them, and often have qualities and talents that would be admirable if used for good (the typical action villainess, for instance, is no less strong inside and out, tough and combat-capable as a heroine would be); you can look at them and see the tragically compelling figure of what they could have been --and in some cases, might be yet, given a strong enough redeeming influence. (Who knows --I'm not near the end of the book yet, and there might even be some hope for Clara, though I'm not holding my breath. :-)) A gold coin, even when it's bent out of shape and stained with mud, still glitters dully. Factor in the feminine mystique, and you have the ingredients of an understandable literary appeal, of a sort.

Does that analysis resonate with anybody else? (Or should fans who think along those lines register with Mental Health? :-)) Are there any well-drawn action antiheroines or villainesses of literature that have commanded your interest as a reader at times?

Money Shot by Christa Faust, an HCC book, had a heroine who was pretty anti-heroic. An ex-porno star, she winds up... well, no spoilers. Let's just say that while I rooted for her somewhat & enjoyed the book, she was on the wire, at best. She was tough & I liked her, though. I get where you're coming from, Werner.

I recently read a collection of short stories by Thad Brown called The Smoking Gun Sisterhood. Several of the stories featured ladies on the edge. I quite enjoyed it.

I tend to gravitate towards flawed characters, so yes, I am all for antiheroines, so long as there is some glimmer of possibly turning over a new leaf, at least mostly.

If you want to read a steamy paranormal romance, Sabine from Kiss of a Demon King by Kresley Cole, is a great antiheroine.

As far as villainessess, I'd love some recomnendations.

I've heard Tam from the Shannon McKenna books is a good antiheroine. Her book is Ultimate Weapon.

Lady Danielle, that's a tough one. I started thinking about it & could not come up with a good villainess in any of the books I've read recently. A little more thought came up with a couple.

A novella, also the title story in the British edition of "Four For Tomorrow", 4 short stories by Roger Zelazny is A Rose for Ecclesiastes. It features a very chilling 'woman'.

Obsidian Butterfly by Laurell K. Hamilton (about the 10th in the series & one of the last decent ones) has a chilling villainess in it, too.

Jim, I've read (and liked!) "A Rose for Ecclesiastes" --which, of course, isn't an action story. Personally, I never thought of either of the Martian women there, Braxa or Macquie (sp. ?), as villainesses. They took an approach to romance that was cold-blooded by human standards; but their primary concern was the survival of their species, and hurting Gallagher wasn't their objective.

Literature abounds with villainesses, from Lady Macbeth to Bavmorda in Willow, but most of them aren't action villainesses --a fact that's not surprising, since violence usually hasn't been deemed appropriate for females, even if they are bad in other ways. :-) But another Sandford character, Carmel Loan in Certain Prey (the first of the two books I mentioned above) would qualify: she's not just a very dark antiheroine like Clara, but a consummately psychotic villainess whose moral possibilities have been completely swallowed by her dark side, and who is, as Karl Barth would put it, "radically evil," evil at her very roots.

No, I guess it isn't an action story, but I disagree with you about the gals being villainesses. I think they were.

Does a person have to intend harm to accomplish it? No.

Does a person who causes harm automatically become a villain? No, not if they're doing so for good intentions.

Can they be viewed as one from any perspective? I think so. Although their intentions were noble, the way they used Gallagher seemed nasty to me. There were other ways they could have accomplished their purpose without tearing him up the way they did.

Jim, your perspective gave me some food for thought! In their defense, when they came up with their plot they apparently thought that Braxa might honestly fall for Gallinger (I should have checked that name to start with and not tried to cite it from memory!), but as M'Cwyie said, "It was the one part of her duty she never managed." And I still wouldn't put them in the Lady Macbeth sorority; I'd say they're more in the nature of flawed folk like the rest of us, who are guilty of sins and mistakes at times. But that one was a dilly, in terms of the pain it caused --and as you indicated, they could have at least tried being honest up front.

Of course, both back in 1963 and today, many males have thought nothing about trifling with a woman's affections, for completely selfish reasons, and assumed that if it tore her up emotionally, that was just a normal hazard of being female. Maybe Zelazny felt that depicting the shoe on the other foot might be instructive for some of his male readers. :-) But it's true that insensitivity and exploitation come across as bad no matter which gender is guilty!

You're probably right with the twist. Typical Zelazny.

Just now, I added an Antiheroines/villainesses shelf to our bookshelves, so that the shadier kick-butt ladies we read about can get their due recognition, too. :-) Having done that, I went ahead and posted Mortal Prey on our "Currently reading" shelf. (After all, if you define "heroine" in a value-neutral way, as just meaning "leading female character" in a particular work, Clara can qualify.)

Good idea!

Having finished up and reviewed Mortal Prey earlier this week, I thought I'd post a link to my review, if anyone's interested. It can be viewed at: http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/... . Sandford's protagonist there is definitely a quintessential representative of the antiheroine/ villainess species (she can be either one, depending on her situation at the time); if you read the book, you'll sometimes be appalled and horrified by her, and sometimes find yourself sympathizing with her (at least I did), but you won't readily forget her. :-)

Loved your review, Werner. Clara sounds fascinating. I find a story about moral complexities very intriguing.

Thanks, Danielle! I thought that review might interest you.

You know me well!

I'd like to humbly recommend my series "Gastar" the 1st book "Act of Redemption" published last year, book 2 (out of 4) due out this fall. My anti-heroine is Shevata, a teen assassin (medieval backdrop) who gets cursed following a mission to rescue innocent living people from Hell (fantasy Hell), then kills an evil priest and gets punished by having her soul removed. The series follows Shevata's journey to protect the people of the city of Gastar and for her to re-claim her soul. Good reviews on amazon and Kidzworld. For older teens/adults, due to level of violence, no extreme "cussing" No explicit "Adult stuff". My fans like the book because she's a bad-azz female. Also on facebook with some prelim sketches of her for use in future ads!

C., thanks for letting us know about your series, and good luck with it! I've just added Act of Redemption to our "written by group members" and "antiheroines/villainesses" shelves. Shevata sounds like a young lady members of this group would like to get to know. :-)

I'm not sure who did the Goodreads book entry for that book, but it didn't identify it by title (only as the first entry of the series), and had a typo in the description. I fixed those problems just now (I'm a Goodreads librarian); but the description also ends abruptly, in the middle of a word, with part of it evidently cut off. You'll want to correct that!

Thank You Very Much Werner!! So far, I really like this site!

Glad to hear that, C!

I did re-do the synopsis of "Act of Redemption", Werner,and am in the process of downloading at least part of an ebook. I'm new at this, if I've left out anything please let me know! Thanks again! CC

It looks good, C.! There are a few Goodreads lists you might want to post it on, too. The ones that come to mind are: Books With Action Heroines; Kick Butt Heroines; and Books With Heroes/Heroines Who Are Assassins. (Some people use the lists to get reading suggestions, so any time your book is on a relevant one, it's good advertising!)

Thanks! You guys are awesome!!
-C

So I actually just found this site via google as I was looking for new books to read featuring provoking villainesses. Thanks for the list; I've a few to check out now!

I thought I'd add my favorite: Melisande Shahrizai in Jacqueline Carey's Kushiel's Legacy series. She's just do dang evil (and sexy too)!

Wow, this is an old thread, but I like the subject. I read a lot of Action/Adventure and I find the Villains to can be more interesting than some of the heroes/heroines. Is there any interest other than mine in reviving this thread?

Melisande is a good one, Scarlet. I couldn't stand her, but I liked how the author made her Phedre's one weakness.

For Anti-Heroes Seichan from Rollins's Sigma Force. She started as a villain and is a wonderful anti-hero now.

One day I will get to meet Seichan. Looking forward to it.

She's vicious, even as she becomes the anti-hero. She wins fights by "not playin' around." and she's cold-blooded.

Kitara from the first Hickman and Wies series (Dragon Lance). She was a good-bad girl flyin' a dragon!

I like a fierce female character.

I'm late coming to this thread. My nastiest female villain was Vohanna, from Wings Over Talera. I deliberately drew her as over the top. Of course, she's not actually human, although she most of the time appears to be.

I finished up The Final Cut on Tuesday and the antiheroine Fox really stole the show. She's a thief/whatever the client wants done and her character was very interesting. I'd very cool if she got her own series, honestly!

Just now, I started a thread for LeAnn Neal Reilly's novel The Last Stratiote over in the "Specific authors/books/heroines" folder; but I thought the title character there, Elira Dukagjini, deserved a mention here. She's not a villainess, though some bad guys on the receiving end of the violence she can dish out might think she is (while they're still alive to think), but let's say the Boston police department probably wouldn't view her as a model citizen. :-)

The title character of the novella I recently finished reading, by Leigh Brackett, if she's judged honestly and fairly, has to be admitted to be a villainess in the legitimate definition of the word; she's motivated by selfish personal ambition for power and status, and she's quite ruthlessly willing to inflict suffering and death on any number of people who defy that goal. But she's a nuanced villainess who does have some genuine good in her, which also shows itself in actions. (And sometimes, when the chips are down, a nuanced villainess with some genuine good in her might find that she has the stuff inside to add "heroine" to her resume'....) That degree of nuance makes her an interesting character (at least to me).

Agreed.