Fantasy Aficionados discussion

What are the conventions/themes of fantasy that you most enjoy? In other words, what attracts you to fantasy as a genre? What makes you choose some books over others when you read the blurb?

In high fantasy, I look for realistic characters and battles. I also prefer believable magical systems. I love reading a series where things in an alternate medieval-like world are going very very wrong because of war and whatnot. I'm not so much into the "evil" one battling the good-guy "chosen" one, though those can be fun, too!

In urban or dark fantasy, I avidly look for the wierd and strange. I love reading stories where the unknown remains unknown. If done right, these stories can be great food for thought.

I love the blend of the modern world with fictional ones in Urban Fantasy. It's even better if they can pull off the fantasy elements without overdoing it. Kim Harrison does a great job of these as was also true of Laurell K Hamilton before Anita Blake Vampire Hunter turned into Anita Blake Does the Whole Supernatural World.

In some forms of it like with Neil Gaiman it's the whimsy and charm that gets my interest. The self exploration that is expressed.

With books like Wit'ch Fire or Dragonbone Chair it's about the adventure, sharing all of that change and turmoil with the character. I think that started with Never-ending Story and Jim Henson's Dark Crystal and Labyrinth when I was a kid.

Things that attract me about fantasy:
*Drawing from folklore, mythology, fable traditions to create a story
*I like the fight of good versus evil, even when the lines aren't clearly drawn, and the fight might be inside the protagonist
*Adventure
*I love a little romance with my fantasy :)
*Exercising the imagination--so that I'm surprised at what a book contains

Like Amanda, I love the modern world with fantastical elements and mythologic creatures within it.

The thing that most attracts me to fantasy is being in a different world, even if that world is similar to our own. From the first fantasy book I ever read (The Hobbit), it was the creativity of the author that fascinated me.

The deciding factors for the purchase of a book based on the cover/blurb/book flap are:

1) Does the story seem original?
2) Is it intelligent?
3) Does the myth-building seem realistic?

That's a good list, Cheryl.

Thank you, dah-link! :)

Danielle, I'm with you on your entire list, especially point number one: drawing on mythology and folklore - or even making it up if the author can give the history and make it feel real.

I mostly read for escapism, so I don't have any particulars that I'm looking for. But I want whatever I read to be entertaining.

If there are battles, I want to be drawn into them and on the edge of my seat watching the action. If there are lessons or things to learn, I want to learn them along with the characters.

I don't like weird just for the sake of weird, and I don't like books that have a lot of parties and fairs and carnivals and whatnot. That stuff doesn't interest me.

Weird with a purpose and twisted versions of reality, I like. :)

I'm the same way when it comes to weird, Becky. That's why I don't think I could get into bizarro literature.

I like strange and weird. Having said that, I thought Bizarro was the same thing until I started looking at some titles in the "bizzaro" category...definitely not for me. It seems like Bizzaro is for people who are fascinated by the same things that are revolting to them.

I used to enjoy, and still do, fantasy that is as far removed from what we know as possible. One, it makes for a very challenging write. Two, it really challenges the creativity of the reader. Roger Zelazny Nine Princes in Amber had a very unique part to it, although it included earth so it didn't depart entirely from what we know.

Mythago wood is another with very otherworldly fantasy elements, and a very strange "feeling" that it evoked.

Such unique perspectives, well written and captivating, are so rare for me to find though that I am now really on the look out for more Urban Fantasy, like Neverwhere. I am all for steam punk, just give me steam punk that is good and well written for the love of Pete!

Perhaps too, I am less able to escape from the world totally, like I used to be able to. So I find reading about the world a little bit with fantasy mixed in, an acceptable alternative.

I definitely agree with you, Legsoffury about fantasy providing a way to escape the world we live in.

I like a little romance in the mix, some political intrigue, and multiple story lines. I also look for books that are atleast trilogies and fairly lengthy.

For me, Harry Potter was fun but way to simple. Robin Hobb's books are much more complex and thus that much more enjoyable as are many other authors.

I don't need them to be trilogies, but I don't mind a little length. That said, there are some "short and sweet" books that are a lot of fun -- they tend to leave me wanting more, though. A lot of older books are like that; used to be you couldn't get more than 300 pages published, and many books were more like 200.

My only issue with stand alones is when the author doesn't wrap up dangling plot lines. Wrap those up to go, please.

I like to get lost in a world, so a lot of the time I like longer series better than stand alones. But that's not to say I don't like a good stand alone.. It just has to draw me in quicker than a long series does.

One of the things I like best in fantasy books is learning about the different cultures in the created worlds. I like a lot of stories where you have one culture you get to know and understand, and then the come to meet and/or clash with, or just learn about, another culture on their world that they didn't even know was there. I know that's kind of obscure... But I don't know, I get a little thrill of excitement and curiosity whenever I learn that there's another weird and strange people out there to learn about. Come to think of it, I guess it's a pretty common fantasy theme, so maybe that's why I like fantasy so much!

I agree. Sometimes, I think, the author intended to write a sequel and never did -- perhaps because the first sold badly and the publisher didn't want another.

Dawn wrote: "One of the things I like best in fantasy books is learning about the different cultures in the created worlds."

Oh, yes! This is why I tend to prefer fantasy worlds ("secondary world" seems to be the term) rather than ones that are fundamentally our world. I also prefer cultures that are not just straight copies of historical ones. At least mix things up a bit and invent new stuff!

Dawn wrote: "I like to get lost in a world, so a lot of the time I like longer series better than stand alones. But that's not to say I don't like a good stand alone.. It just has to draw me in quicker than a l..."

Yeah, I think my biggest draw to fantasy as a genre is the whole fantasticalness of it. I like a new world, a new civilization, a new culture that doesn't have to any way resemble any that exist in our real world. I often like to imagine that authors get a large charge out of making up new peoples and places and well, new stuff.

I enjoy Sci fi for the same reason, although I think SF has to still be based on some logical possible/probable science. But Fantasy doesn't even have to adhere to laws of physics if it doesn't want to.

And this may be just my perception of matters, but I feel that fantasy authors get to push the envelope a little more than other genres. They get to color outside the lines a bit more. As a person who is primary a genre fiction reader who often sees patterns repeated over and over within a genre, that ability to subvert the genre is really attractive.

That's one of the reasons I'm such a mad fan for P.C. Hodgell's stuff; the madcap inventiveness in it, and the embrace of magic that doesn't just try and be another way to do science.

Like her assassins who tattoo themselves with invisible ink, slowly becoming more and more invisible as their tattoos are completed. A lot of authors would get hung up on the unscientificness of that idea, because in our world, invisibleness is not a positive property, it's an absence. In a world that operates by magical rules, though, why not?

Matthew, the PC Hodgell books sound interesting. I bought GodStalker chronicles. Might have to pull that out the tbr soon.

One of the other reasons that I read fantasy is that I like to grow up with the character(s). That's one of the reasons I tend to like the longer ones because there is usually a lot more growth.

I'm a hardcore fan; I even started a wiki on them. They don't work for everyone, of course.

The heroine is on the side of good and right but not always nice; she has a very intense dark side to her. Not everyone can empathize with that.

Hodgell sometimes (especially early on) put so many ideas in and not all of them get followed through on. That bugs some people.

She started writing them in the 80s, published two (the ones collected in the one you have) and then got fired by her publisher during the late-80s recession when they pruned their list. She couldn't find anyone else willing to take over a series that someone else had rights for, so she abandoned the idea of being a working writer and focussed on her academic career. She had written the next in the series, and in the mid 90s that one got a small-press release. In the 2000s she started writing again and has put out two more with a third one completed and a fourth in process. Obviously, with that much of a gap, the writing style and mood is not an exact match. Still good, but it might bother some.

She also abandons the setting of book 1 and none of the rest go back there yet. Quite a few people fall in love with that setting and don't like the other books.

Books 2 and 3 are rather depressing indeed, reflecting the author's personal state of mind during the time she was working on them. They're beautiful, but bleak.

Oh, and the series isn't over, and there is an overall plot that's being worked toward. There are at least 3 more books to go, perhaps more.

Hodgell also commits a few continuity errors throughout the series, largely because she hates re-reading her earlier works; she finds herself getting depressed at their imperfection. She actually sometimes asks her fans on her LJ what she wrote before, rather than checking back herself.

Now I've warned you, I think most fantasy readers will love them.

That makes me want to read them more, Matthew.

Jason, I like growing with characters too, and I like staying in a world that an author has created, which is why I seem to be addicted to series.

I'm glad! I think I get nervous recommending things without proviso :)

Speaking of which, if the idea of consensual sibling incest bothers you a lot, it's part of the main character's culture for the ruling families; similarly to the Egyptian pharaohs and the like.

I like it when characters grow; that's one of the good things about the typical teenage protagonist -- they can grow into awesome at the right pace.

That's something to think about. Thanks for the incest warning. I'll just see how the book deals with it.

It doesn't come up until book 4 anyway, at all, except for brief mentions of historical figures.

At least I'm prepared. :)

I'm definitely the kind of reader that read all the appendices in Tolkien. Because I wanted to find out more about the world :)

I think I must be a rarity among fantasy fans. While I can get into series that are set in other realms and worlds I actually, more often than not, get overwhelmed by a book which has too much of the world building that you guys seem to love.

I think this is because I lose the ability to suspend disbelief if it goes too far into the land of created worlds. It's probably the biggest reason that many sci-fi books don't work for me.

Here are a few examples of books I've had to set aside, considered setting aside or evaded trying because of this:

Otherland
Perdido Street Station (which I'm currently reading and trying very hard to visualize though I think the writing is good)
Ill Wind
Ravenloft
Anything by R A Salvatore
Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy (and yet I loved the movie)
Ender's Game
Dune
The Hunger Games
Chronicles of Narnia

Examples of Books That HAVEN'T Posed a Problem:

Wit'ch Fire
Dragonbone Chair
Terry Pratchett's Books
Wheel of Time
The Lord of the Rings
Abarat
Imagica
Fables

Different peoples' imaginations work in different ways, I think.

About Sci-fi, I have always had a hard time reading it. Faded Sun Trilogy was alright, but only because they spent more time planet-side. Now that I mention it, I also liked an older single sci-fi book where everybody had a computer with an internet connection in their brain...can't remember the name. I think that was more for novelty sake though since the book was somewhat prophetic.

Typically, spending a book within the confines of a ship lose my attention. I could never read star-trek.

Matthew,
This Hodgells lady is starting to interest me. She doesn't like to re-read books, that makes two of us, and I like the tattoo idea. hmmm...

Tolkien appendix reader, are you also the rare individual who has read the Silmarillion?

Lady Danielle "The Book Huntress" wrote: "That's something to think about. Thanks for the incest warning. I'll just see how the book deals with it."

That's something that immediately turned me off to reading Storm Constantine's Sea Dragon Heir. That's also one thing that will pretty much guarantee that I toss a book.

@Jea0126: Which is why I warn about it, because it's a hot button issue for some. Having some trigger issues myself, I'm sensitive to that.

The siblings in these were separated in early childhood, and nothing happens between them until they're adult (she's 22-ish, he's 32-ish). It has gone no farther than shared sexual dreams and fantasies, and one rather passionate kiss, so far, but the author has said it will.

Matthew wrote: "@Jea0126: Which is why I warn about it, because it's a hot button issue for some. Having some trigger issues myself, I'm sensitive to that.

The siblings in these were separated in early childhood..."

That'd be enough to make me barfy :(

Early childhood separation alone would be?

Ha, no the shared sexual dreams bit much less the kiss and the promise of...more *shudders*

I note that incest has become a popular theme in books and film lately. My question is WHY??

Because people (as an abstract) are fascinated with the forbidden -- or, at least, enough of them are that it's noticeable.

It's noticeable in these books that the ruling classes are very odd. I suspect that's something to do with the genetic effect of all that inbreeding ... inherited madness runs in the ruling line, for instance. If you're going to have it in your stories, at least the consequences are there, plain to see for the reader, even if not the characters.

Matthew wrote: "Because people (as an abstract) are fascinated with the forbidden -- or, at least, enough of them are that it's noticeable.

It's noticeable in these books that the ruling classes are very odd. I ..."

In that instance I can see the reason for it and the taboo aspects make sense too. At least they're based in something.

I think its more the books or the films where its seems to come out of nowhere and plays itself off as the main romance or plot device in a sense that isn't somehow negative that get to me.If its just there for shock value and has no real thread to the plot its just a cheap shot.

In general I don't like cheap shots and things that appear to only be in books to be shocking. I'd rather that it at least be something that honestly fascinates the author — at least, then, one can feel the passion for the subject in the writing, no matter what it is.

Honest exploration is one thing, cynical shocks another. If that makes any sense.

That's just gross. I'll pass. I can't imagine having the hots for my brother. Just the thought of it makes me slightly ill.

Lady Danielle "The Book Huntress" wrote: "What are the conventions/themes of fantasy that you most enjoy? In other words, what attracts you to fantasy as a genre? What makes you choose some books over others when you read the blurb?"

Magic! In my fantasy life, magic gives me control over the hostile universe. In real life all control is illusion.

Matthew wrote: "I'm definitely the kind of reader that read all the appendices in Tolkien. Because I wanted to find out more about the world :)"

Good for you Matthew-I loved the appendix, the silmarillion, the lost books and the unfinished tales! Couldn't get enough

I have the Silmarillion but I just haven't been able to get into it.

It's true it's a little heavier going than the trilogy. The The Silmarillion is one of those "find a quiet place and favorite beverage and block out the world" books.

Mike (the Paladin) wrote: "It's true it's a little heavier going than the trilogy. The The Silmarillion is one of those "find a quiet place and favorite beverage and block out the world" books."

Oooh, that might explain it. I am usually in the middle of controlled chaos while reading.

Could be :).

These days I go more for urban/contemporary fantasy than a full-on fantasy world fiction. I like to see the strange enter the "real" world and see how it affects people.

I like the unknown. While some of them are fascinating, I do tend to prefer magic systems that are left unexplained, perhaps even unmentioned. Where we just have magic and it is used and no word is spoken of it. I also like the possibilities of a high fantasy world. A world without our biases, our morals, our culture, our history. A blank slate on which we can build a world where monogamy is seen as a sin, or where communism actually worked, or just a world where it is considered odd to eat anything without a side of cheese.

I'm most often draw to a world where "someone" is holding the line or trying to hold the line against the Dark so to speak. I prefer a world where hope is recognized. You need a threat, a powerful threat. But as in the protofantasy LotR where the "small and meek" are willing to stand shoulder with the strong and powerful (as in the fellowship of course) hope will prevail.

I'm really turned off by the "life is c**p and then you die" school.

I don't mind "life is crap but it's possible to carve out some small portion of goodness nonetheless", though.