Historical Fictionistas discussion

Cornwell is my favourite author. And my favourite books of his are the Saxon series, although I wasn't a massive fan of the fourth book in the series, Swordsong.
A few of us have just been chatting in the Introductions thread about Cornwell and I though HEY! why don't I put his name into the Favourite Authors section.
So here it tis!

Anyone got any thoughts on Cornwell's Stonehenge? I haven't read it yet and have heard bad things about it. Despite my love of so many of Cornwell's other books, Stonehenge is one I have steered away from.

Which books of Cornwell's are your favourites?

I have The Last Kingdomon my bookshelf. I haven't read anything of his yet but I've read really great reviews on his books. I'm looking forward to this thread :)

Cornwell is just about my favorite author of HF. I have to say, I wasn't too fond of Stonehenge - early man just isn't an era that interests me much. But I've read absolutely everything else of his and loved it. The Arthur trilogy is in my opinion the best, the Saxon series a close second, the Sharpe novels have the best hero, the Starbuck novels are the most frustrating (since they stop at Antietam), and the modern day sea-thrillers (especially Stormchild) unexpectedly fascinating.

Have you read Azincourt, Kate?

Tasha, as soon as you get a chance to read it I would recommend you give The Last Kingdom a go. It seems to be a book that a lot of people have on their shelves, but haven't tackled yet. But beware. For women, Cornwell's saxon series can be very, ah, 'butch'. Cornwell doesn't hold back and his Uhtred character, when he becomes an adult, is very masculine, very arrogant (and very cool).
Anyone who is squeamish won't appreciate the brutality in the Saxon series, but I love it, it makes me laugh.
It is good that Cornwell can write with such brutal honesty, after all, these were tough and violent times where a gory death in the shield wall was par for the course.

I liked "Azincourt." But if Cornwell's usual books are hard-core as far as violence goes, his books set in the Middle Ages are even more so - Azincourt and the Grail trilogy are brutal to the point of stomach-turning. The violence is not gratuitous - it's just that the Hundred Years War had a level of violence that is almost beyond belief, and the books reflect that honestly. His Saxon and Arthurian books are set much earlier, in what might be called the Dark Ages, but violence back then was par for the course and very much in line with the standards of the age. The Middle Ages with the Hundred Years War has an equivalent level of violence in an era that is supposed to value Christian mercy and charity; the level of hypocrisy between what is ideal and what is true is so vast that it is incredibly shocking. Still, Azincourt and the Grail trilogy are very good books and well worth the read if you have a strong stomach.

Honestly, what I find hardest to read about Middle Ages warfare is all the dead horses. I can take humans dying on battlefields, but horses getting slaughtered in thousands by arrows is hard to deal with.

Terri, I have my list of summer (challenge) books already BUT maybe I'll make The Last Kingdom my first read off the challenge...or maybe I'll find a way to squeeze it in!

I've read his Grail trilogy and loved it; likewise, Azincourt was fabulous. However, I tried Stonehenge and finally gave up halfway through. However, I won't say that it isn't well written, but I think I just don't care enough about that time period to have enjoyed it.

The violence in them is rather vivid, but that is just BC telling it like it was.

The Saxon series is on my iPod and will probably be next...I'm currently listening to Elizabeth Chadwick's A Place Beyond Courage.

I read and loved his Arthurian trilogy; I found it to be highly engaging with a fantastic take on Arthurian legend that felt very "real" (ie, not glossing over the less glorious stuff, like fleas and, uh, violence). However, I was a trifle disappointed by Azincourt - I found the narrator to be too flat so that in my opinion he couldn't well carry the story he mediated. The secondary characters were made of win though :)

I still have his Redcoat lying around. Anyone have any opinions on that?

Haven't read Redcoat. ( I am starting to realise how many Cornwell books I am still to read).

I bought Stonehenge at the wrong time and I think that is why I didn't end up reading it. I bought it at the same time that I bought Sarum by Edward Rutherford and I decided to read Sarum first. I liked Sarum so little that it turned me off Cornwell's Stonehenge (Sarum being set in the same area). And then I read bad reviews for Stonehenge on GR and now I don't know if I'll ever read it.

Tasha...try and fit The Last Kingdom in...after all...it's not too big. A perfect size read for your first challenge book. :-) Then you can come here and tell us what you are thinking of it as you're reading it.

I found the violence of the Grail Quest probably equal for me to the Saxon series, although in saying that, there was that scene in book one (I think) of the grail quest where they fought a mighty battle. What was the town? It was on an island and the defenders were building up bodies on the bridge to arrest the attackers advance. The attackers, Thomas of Hookton amoungst them, had to stab up into the defenders standing on top of the pile of bodies and furniture and carts etc.. that was a pretty gruesome battle.

I've only read a few of the Sharpe books so far. I keep meaning to read the rest of the series and some other books he's published. I have Agincourt sitting on my shelf that a friend mailed me. She didn't like it, but I wanted to give it a try.

Some people love Azincourt and some people don't. It is the way with Bernard Cornwell's actual style. There are lovers of it and haters of it.
While he writes well and many who don't like his books can still respect that, they don't always like his characters.
I think that what turns some people off Azincourt is that it is, essentially, a battle book. The Battle of Azincourt. It takes some of the surprises out of it when you can google (if you don't already know) who won who lost and everything else you could ever want to know about the battle and it's lead up.

This topic is giving me inspiration to give Cornwell another chance! I tried the Sharpe books after seeing the TV shows, and it was one of the very few times that I liked a book less than the adaptation. But I'm always on the lookout for more "realistic" visits to Camelot, so The Winter King is going on to TBR shelf.

Hi, all! I finally found my way over here from the intro thread.
After all the discussion about Stonehenge, I thought I read it a long time ago, but realize I don't remember it that well, so I am going to re-read it when I get the chance. I like all the Cornwell books so far, so I'm hoping it will be up to his usual standards. I, for one, am facinated anout Stonehenge and love to read novels that give different scenarios about the building and purpose of it.

Don't throw anything at me, but I think the Arthurian series starting with The Winter King is my least favorite so far, and I LOVE anything Arthur!

Off topic (kinda): I'm finding it interesting that so many people find Cornwell's books gory in the depiction of fighting/war of the time. Personally, I think if men still had to kill each other close up and personal, instead of at a distance where they frequently do not see the results of their actions, it might put a different slant on war. Also, modern warfare kills a much larger number of people with a lot more "innocent" lives taken. I believe it is called "collateral damage".

Give "The Winter King" a shot - but as a warning, the first 75 pages or so are a bit slow. There's an attack on Merlin's home around page 75, and from there everything is off to the races, but before that it can drag a bit. Cornwell himself admitted that he got too wrapped up in describing and creating a world, rather than just getting on with the story. But stick with it, because once "Winter King" kicks off it is absolutely thrilling, and there are no draggy spots with the next two books.

Kate wrote: "Give "The Winter King" a shot....Cornwell himself admitted that he got too wrapped up in describing and creating a world, rather than just getting on with the story."

LOL! That actually makes me want to read it even more. I like a heavy dose of setting before the plot kicks in in my HF. That seals the deal, "The Winter King" has conquered "His Majesty's Dragon" as my next series read.

LOL! That actually makes me want to read it even more. I like a heavy dose of setting before the plot kicks in in my HF. That seals the deal, "The Winter King" has conquered "His Majesty's Dragon" as my next series read.

Djrmel, I'm not trying to change your mind because they are very different books, but make sure you keep His Majesty's Dragon near the top of your list. It's like Patrick O'Brian with dragons! Also a great series!

Cornwell is one of my favorite author too! I have read the arthur series and I absolutely loved it! I'm in the midlle of the saxon story now and so far enjoying it (can't wait to start the burning land).
Don't you think Uthred is liked Derfel in many ways? (orphan, raised by foreigners, quick tempered...)

Cornwell's Arthur series is the one I have on my shelf, and I look forward to reading it. In deciding which of his series to start with, I chose it because of Cornwell's comment on his website that it is his personal favorite. Although, I would love to read the Sharpe series because I find Sean Bean really yummy. I wouldn't mind imagining him while I was reading! ;)

Sean Bean is very yummy - the perfect Sharpe. Cornwell really liked him too; he said that after SB got cast in the miniseries, he now hears Sean's voice in his head whenever he writes Sharpe dialogue. Which is why, in the later Sharpe books published, Sharpe suddenly has a bunch of Yorkshire-isms like calling girls "lass." I think Cornwell hastily invented some reason that took the very young Sharpe from his native London to Yorkshire in his youth, just so SB's Yorkshire accent would work with the character.

Ceinwin - did you pick your online handle for Derfel's Ceinwyn? I liked her a lot, though the first time I read the books I was convinced anyone so sweet was bound to get killed. I'm not so sure Derfel and Uhtred are much alike, despite the orphan raised by the enemy similarities. Derfel is more mellow; he's happy using his war shield as a sled for his kids when there isn't a war to be fought, whereas Uhtred is pretty grumpy when there isn't somebody to fight . . .

Well guessed Kate! I liked Ceinwin a lot. I even think that Cornwell could have developped her character a bit more.

It's true that Uthred is more bad tempered than Derfel. But both of them like to fight (Derfel already wanted to be a warrior as a kid). I feel that the difference between them is that fighting is a job for Derfel and a way of living for Uthred.

I agree with Kate. I found Derfel more mellow compared to Uhtred. After all, would Derfel say things like this.

___________________________________
'She's sixteen I believe,' Beocca said, gazing at the shingled beach away to the east.
'Sixteen," I said scathingly, 'and married, which suggests she has a face like a bag of maggots.'
'That is hardly relevant.' he said crossly.
'You don't have to sleep with her,' I said, 'and no doubt she's pious.'
'She is a devoted Christian, I'm happy to say.'
'You've see her?' I asked.
'No,' He admitted, 'but Alfred has talked of her.'
'This is Alfred's idea?'
'He likes to see his men settled, to have their roots in the land.'
'I'm not his man, father. I'm Uhtred of Bebbanburg, and the lords of Bebbanburg don't marry pious maggot-faced bitches of low birth.'
_____________________________________

Snort..those are my favourite lines from The Last Kingdom. Uhtred cracks me up big time.....and I want to admit here..just between us..that I have a bit of a crush on him.

So, yeah, I understand where you are coming from Ceinwen, but for me they are very different men. That doesn't mean I am right however. :-)

Anyone else find Cornwell's anti Christianity a bit too full on in the Saxon series, most especially in Sword Song? I am not a religious person, and yet even I found it too full on. Cornwell made me hate his religious characters too much and it detracts from the story sometimes. Sword Song being the worst of it.

By the way...hey Donna!...if I was not knees deep in a book right now and have three others standing in line to be read next, I would read Stonehenge with you. Would be good to have someone else to read it with.

Terri, I ordered a used copy and am waiting for it to arrive. It may take me awhile to get around to it since I have some group reads, etc, but I'll let you know on this thread when I do.

Yeah, let me know, Donna.
I was thinking that maybe I could bump it up my list and read it next or after the next one. So, definitely let me know when it arrives and we'll see if we can't pencil it into our reading schedules at the same time.

Terri wrote: "I agree with Kate. I found Derfel more mellow compared to Uhtred. After all, would Derfel say things like this.

___________________________________
'She's sixteen I believe,' Beocca said, gazing a..."

I most definitely have a crush on Uhtred, no problem admitting it. He's cranky, tough, and altogether a hunk.

Kate wrote: I most definitely have a crush on Uhtred, no problem admitting it. He's cranky, tough, and altogether a hunk. "

and smart and tall.....

I have a feeling I'd want to bang him over the head a few times if I was married to him - he can be a crank if he hasn't had a good bloody sword-fight in a while. But he'd probably just grin and say "You got me."

SPOILERS

Uhtred seems to have bad luck with women. Two who dumped him to become nuns, one who dumped him for his best friend, one who dumped him (and cursed him) when he didn't make her a queen, two who died. I liked his wife Gisela and was sorry when she died, but I didn't think she was as fully fleshed a character as, say, Derfel's Ceinwyn was. I like Aethelflaed better - her name might be utterly impossible, but she's tough enough to take Derfel on.

I see Cornwell has a new book due out in September of this year;
THE FORT
Here is the description;

THE FORT is about the Penobscot Expedition of 1779. A small British garrison had been established in what is now Maine (and was then part of Massachusetts), and the rebel government in Boston was determined to expel that garrison. Seven hundred British redcoats were in an unfinished fort, Fort George, and the harbour beneath the fort was protected by three sloops-of-war. Against this the State of Massachusetts sent an army of around 900 men and a fleet of 42 ships, half of which were warships. In this early scene a handful of rebel ships feel out the British harbour defences. The Lieutenant John Moore who watches the fight is the famous Sir John Moore, of Corunna fame. This was his first experience of battle, when he was 18 years old.
______________________________________________

And here is an excerpt from the new book as found on Cornwell's website
http://www.bernardcornwell.net/index2...

Terri, thanks for the info. I look forward to reading it! Problem is - which side do I root for? ;)

I just bought Agincourt my first Bernard Cornwell. It was on clearance for like 5 bucks and its brand new and a hard cover. It sounds good.

Danielle wrote: "I just bought Agincourt my first Bernard Cornwell. It was on clearance for like 5 bucks and its brand new and a hard cover. It sounds good."

Congrats, Danielle, on your first Cornwell. Hope you like it. If you don't, then don't give up on him and try the Saxon series, the Grail Quest series or the Arthur series. They are a very different style of book to Azincourt.

Donna,
Normally I go for the redcoats. :-)

I have to post a huge THANK YOU!! to Terri for starting this topic and to everyone who's contributed. Because of you folks, I've discovered a new "all time favorite". I am absolutely loving The Winter King, especially Cornwell's versions of Guinevere and Lancelot.

Djrmel wrote: "I have to post a huge THANK YOU!! to Terri for starting this topic and to everyone who's contributed. Because of you folks, I've discovered a new "all time favorite". I am absolutely loving The ..."

It was my pleasure, Djrmel! :-) I am so happy that you have discovered Bernard Cornwell now, and love The Winter King.

Ahhh..another convert. {;-)

Djrmel, I hope you have a way of reading Cornwell without having to BUY all his books..... you may go broke!!!

Surf on Amazon, and be patient - a lot of his older ones, you can get for a dollar or two plus postage. He's worth collecting.

Ebay is a good source also for secondhand copies. And book exchanges/secondhand bookstores too.

I just finished The Winter King, as I checked my library based on recommendations here. Luckily, they have the whole trilogy.

http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...

I just got Sharpe's Tiger, and ordered The Winter King!! I can't wait to read them, you have all made me curious about Bernard Cornwell!

I just got The Winter King for under 5 dollars with shipping on Amazon. Its is beautiful condition to. I love when the seller says light ware and it turns out to be totally unnoticeable.

Chris, do you think you might go on to read the next two books in the series, Enemy of God and Excalibur, at some stage?

Well done Felina on your secondhand book score! I LUUUURVE tracking down secondhand books in good condition for a bargain. Of course, I know I am preaching to the choir on that one. It's something we all love.

I"m reading The Winter King aloud to my husband, and he's loving it. You can't not go on to the next books; the story is too gripping.

Terri wrote: "Chris, do you think you might go on to read the next two books in the series, Enemy of God and Excalibur, at some stage?"

Definitely. The only question is when. My library has all three, which is extremely rare at that library. Usually they'll just have the 3rd book in a series.

I expect it to be soon, though.

Excellent, Chris. I enjoyed them more than The Winter King. That's not saying that I didn't enjoy The Winter King, I just liked the other two more.

Historical Fictionista member, Donna, and I are going to do a mini read of Bernard Cornwell's Stonehenge. Stonehenge
Anyone else is welcome to join in. We don't bite. :-)

That would be great if you could come on board, Barbara!
We'll be starting in about a week and a half to two weeks. Even in a week maybe if Donna and I finish the books we are both currently on.
It doesn't matter if some start early or a little late because we all read at different paces anyway.

Great, Barbara! The more, the merrier! Anyone else?

PS. For those on a budget, I got my copy used from Amazon...

I have jumped the gun and gone and posted the book under the 'Read With Me' topic.

Anyone who thinks they may be interested....see you there..I hope.. :-)

I am half way through the second Arthurian book of his, i like the Saxon books better so far. I don't know if i can make it through the Arthurian series.. it is pretty boring.

I liked the Arthurian series, but I personally agree. The Saxon series leaves the Arthur series for dead in my eyes.

I've read most of Bernard Cornwell's non-Sharpe books(nothing against Sharpe)and The Grail Quest is my favorite series.

My two fav stand alones are: REDCOAT and THE GALLOW'S THIEF.

The first Bernard Cornwell book I ever picked up was The Winter King. As someone mentioned previously, I found the opening a bit slow and even though I liked the writing, I don't think I ever finished it. But later I discovered the Grail Quest series and devoured all of those, as well as the Saxon Tales. I, too, have a crush on Uhtred.

If you like your historicals to be of a gentler nature, then Cornwell is probably not for you. But I find it's the action and intensity that keeps me turning the page and for that Cornwell has become my favorite HF author.