Heathens, Pagans and Witches discussion

Any members have personal recommendations for newcomers to Wicca? Please post them here, so they are easy to find.

Idiots guide to Wicca was a very easy to read accurate intro to the subject.

Anything by Scott Cunningham is a good place to get started. He covers all the basics. Christopher Penczak's series is also very good. I'm not a practitioner of Wicca, though I did read these books when I was first starting out.

My only recommendation on the topic of Wica/Wicca, especially for newcomers/beginners, would be " The Triumph of the Moon: A History of Modern Pagan Witchcraft " by Ronald Hutton.

Ancestral, you seem to be a fan of Ronald Hutton. I thought he was a bit of a skeptic when it comes to matters of paganism, though I know very little about him. Apparently his book on Shamanism is quite a counterpoint to traditional thinking in neo-paganism. It's on my to read list at present. What can you tell me about him?

I like penzacks first book. Yet to read any more. He does a nice job explaining witchcraft in realistic terms. Cunningham I'm not so impressed with. He is big on rituals and wrote spells and not so much on developing your own style

Christopher is a really nice guy, too. He doesn't live very far from me, just over the border in New Hampshire and often does classes at my local pagan store. I took my first crystals class with him, and his teaching style is very much like the books. I will say his book on Shamanism is a good basic as well--probably I should mention it on that thread. He is very much a traditional Wiccan.

Hands down, the best series to start with for beginners is Christopher Penczaks Temple of Witchcraft series. I would start with The Inner Temple of Witchcraft and work your way through, which I believe there are 7 books in the series now? Where alot of beginner books on witchcraft and paganism explain the how, Penczak goes into the why which can really help you decide if a path is right for you besides just going through the motions.

Yes. He links how his scientific mind leads him to this path. That's where I'm coming from. I definitely will get book two. The outer temple next

I recommend Paganism: An Introduction to Earth-Centered Religions by Joyce and River Higginbotham.

I'm almost through reading it right now. I got it from someone who had to read it for a class. I think it's great for people considering Paganism, curious about Paganism, or already into it.

I've learned a lot while reading it, and it clarified some things that I was struggling with.

I love a witches ten commandments which might be good for the second book you read. My first book was the craft by dorothy morrison. I liked it and her writing style. I don't think there is any one book for brginners. I suggest read everything and form your own opinions!

The first book I'm going to be reading is by Kate West. I think it's called The Witch's Handbook or something like that. Has anyone else read it?

Kristen wrote: "The first book I'm going to be reading is by Kate West. I think it's called The Witch's Handbook or something like that. Has anyone else read it?"

I haven't read the witch's handbook but I have read some other Kate West books and I really like her a lot!

Amanda wrote: "Kristen wrote: "The first book I'm going to be reading is by Kate West. I think it's called The Witch's Handbook or something like that. Has anyone else read it?"

I haven't read the witch's hand..."

Have you ever read any books by Silver Ravenwolf?

Kristen wrote: "Amanda wrote: "Kristen wrote: "The first book I'm going to be reading is by Kate West. I think it's called The Witch's Handbook or something like that. Has anyone else read it?"

I haven't read the..."

Uh I read parts of her solitary witch book (the red one) when I was first starting out but I didn't like her writing style. it is too condecending to other religions (mostly christianity) for my taste.

Amanda wrote: "Kristen wrote: "Amanda wrote: "Kristen wrote: "The first book I'm going to be reading is by Kate West. I think it's called The Witch's Handbook or something like that. Has anyone else read it?"

..."

I can understand that. Are the books you've read by Kate West pretty easy to follow for a beginner?

Kristen wrote: "Amanda wrote: "Kristen wrote: "Amanda wrote: "Kristen wrote: "The first book I'm going to be reading is by Kate West. I think it's called The Witch's Handbook or something like that. Has anyone els..."

yeah I think so. I got my very first spell from a kate west book (and it worked too :P)

That's awesome! Can you recommend any other books?

I wouldn't suggest this one as a book for beginners, but for intermediates who do know a bit about the subject, I'd say Weiser Field Guide to Witches, The: From Hexes to Hermione Granger, From Salem to the Land of Oz is an interesting read.

Joseph wrote: "I wouldn't suggest this one as a book for beginners, but for intermediates who do know a bit about the subject, I'd say [book:Weiser Field Guide to Witches, The: From Hexes to Hermione Granger, Fro..."

Thanks, Joseph! I'll keep that in mind for the future.

Kristen wrote: "That's awesome! Can you recommend any other books?"

The first book I read was

The Craft - A Witch's Book of Shadows

And I really liked it a TON, it's a great guide for beginners and she has a nice poetic style.

I also really love
All One Wicca
A Witch's 10 Commandments: Magickal Guidelines for Everyday Life

oops wrong button. lol I also really love

Circle Within: Creating a Wiccan Spiritual Tradition
Her writing style is fantastic. I love all of Dianne Sylvan's books, fiction or non.


I also think that the two book series
Wicca: A Guide for the Solitary Practitioner
Living Wicca: A Further Guide for the Solitary Practitioner

are good for information and personalization.

Kate Wests books are ptretty good, Silvers are good but her history is a bit off, Ellen Dugans are also good. My first book was power of the witch by Laurie Cabot who taught Christopher. Phyllis Curot Book of Shadows is also good. Didn't like style of Rae Beths Hedge Witch. There are so many out there its a case of finding someone whose style of writing you enjoy.

The Spiral Dance - 20th Anniversary: A Rebirth of the Ancient Religion of the Goddess: 20th Anniversary EditionEncyclopedia of Witches, Witchcraft, and WiccaDrawing Down the Moon: Witches, Druids, Goddess-Worshippers, and Other Pagans in America

I'd say books woulden't be a good start for beginner wiccans. I would say getting some advice from a already wiccan and see what they have to say.

Thanks for that, Taylor; however this is a book club

oh yeah that is true ^^;

Taylor wrote: "oh yeah that is true ^^;"

It would be great though if a thread was started in the Practicalities of being Pagan section which offered advice, of the practical sort, for newcomers? Are you up for that, Taylor?

Oh!! That is a great idea! A beginner like myself, I have no idea where to start and who to look for. ><"

Silver RavenWolf is very bad see my post on her books in the other form

New comers, remember, witch =/= wiccan

I'm only recently new to the pagan/wicca etc..... what guys do you suggest? I have learnt some about it

Christopher Penczak, Temple of Witchcraft Series is great!! Start with "The Inner Temple of Witchcraft". It also has companion CDs for guided meditations. Great for beginners!

Thank you so much :) I can't wait to try them

Minor note, but Penczak isn't Wiccan (or at least, I think he has his own tradition now); his writing's about more general eclectic witchcraft and ritual magic. EDIT: Turns out I was wrong, his organization does consider itself Wiccan even though it doesn't call itself such. Oops.

His Temple books are decent reads nonetheless.

Scott Cunningham's book "Wicca: Guide for the Solitary Practioner" is a bit dated, but more or less universally recommended for beginners. I also read Marian Green's "A Witch Alone: Thirteen Moons to Practice Natural Magic" a while back and quite liked it.

Ok thank you for the suggestions :)

How do we define a Wiccan? I was watching a youtube channel and one of the questions raised was what a wiccan actually is. Some people seem to think that there is no such thing as a solitary Wiccan because it's technically an initiatory priesthood, and that self dedication doesn't really count as Wicca. Some people have also said (youtube research here) that Dianic Wicca doesn't really count as Wicca because they revere only the female Godhead, and Wicca is about balance.

Please give your views.

Hmm I have never really got my head around Wicca - possibly because I work (or used to work at least) with the Morrigan!

I now work with Epona and sometime the Horned God

Does Wicca preclude working with the Morrigan?

I'm not sure, but anything I have read about Wicca (which granted isn't a huge amount!), seems to me that it works with light - and The Morrigan works more with death and darkness.

Aaron wrote: "How do we define a Wiccan? I was watching a youtube channel and one of the questions raised was what a wiccan actually is. Some people seem to think that there is no such thing as a solitary Wiccan..."

To each their own. There's so many different initiatory Trads that defining them all as just "Wiccan" is just as inaccurate as including non-coven Wiccans under the umbrella*.

In context of this thread, I assumed people want to discuss Neo-Wicca/Eclectic Wicca material. BTW material is oathbound and not shareable, and people who want Dianic Wiccan material usually specify such. Like it or not, Wicca has evolved out of the old coven system.

*Which older Wiccans brought upon themselves in hindsight. They used witchcraft and Wicca interchangeably, then threw a fit when non-BTWs used them interchangeably.

Wicca is incredibly interesting. It's like a religion encompassing other religions...kind of like the Unitarian church. A couple Wiccans I've met (including my agnostic witch mother) have all encompassed different beliefs and revere different deities.

I personally worship multiple goddesses and the horned God, but mainly focus on the goddesses (I worship a goddess in the form of the maiden, mother, and crone. I revere Lakshmi as the maiden, Isis as the mother, and Hecate as the crone),

What I think is especially fascinating about Wicca is that it doesn't have a religious book, giving it's followers a choice of how they want to create their spiritual path. It's not organized, which I like. I personally believe God (or goddess to some) would not want their followers to be extremely restricted to their beliefs and would allow he worshippers to do what he and she is comfortable with.

I forgot to say this in my previous comment: I got a LOT of information from Scott Cunningham's Wicca: A Guide for the Solitary Practitioner.

Erin the Avid Reader ★Wiccan Girl, Too★ wrote: "I forgot to say this in my previous comment: I got a LOT of information from Scott Cunningham's Wicca: A Guide for the Solitary Practitioner."

It should probably be noted that Cunningham actually was part of an initiatory tradition, and his Wicca books are (supposedly) more-or-less taken straight from "true" Wiccan practices. Taking inspiration from him is probably a lot closer to practicing "real Wicca" than any other books mentioned in this thread. Only downside is that the book is easy to misinterpret without now-historical contexts.

That said, Wicca/Neo-Wicca, paganism, and politics in general has changed a lot since Cunningham wrote the Guide. I mean, he wrote the book during the midst of the Satanic Panic with limited research materials available, and it shows. It'll be interesting to see how future generations regard Cunningham, if nothing else.

Are Janet Farrar and Stewart Farrar still considered witches?
Are they technically wiccan?
Where are they in the "authenticity" of tradition spectrum?
Just curious...it's not my path/current.

Old-Barbarossa wrote: "Are Janet Farrar and Stewart Farrar still considered witches?
Are they technically wiccan?
Where are they in the "authenticity" of tradition spectrum?
Just curious...i..."

I just want to emphasize that separating BTW stuff from other Neo-Wicca stuff, especially in terms of "authenticity" isn't a conductive way to think of the religion. Doubly so if we're talking about Wiccans outside of Britain. You can't rank this stuff from best or worst, or anything like that.

As to your question: Definitely considered Wiccan! IIRC, their Reformed Alexandrian lineage is still around, and their works are regarded as cornerstones of post-Gardnerian BTW. As such, their work is geared towards covens or traditions with set structures/hierarchies, as opposed to Cunningham's focus on solitary practice.

I have no idea about the content of Janet Farrar's recent books, however, as I haven't read them. I've heard that she and Gavin Bone do try to keep themselves updated on Wiccan and non-Wiccan Pagan trends, so at least there's that.

Lysistrata wrote: "I just want to emphasize that separating BTW stuff from other Neo-Wicca stuff, especially in terms of "authenticity" isn't a conductive way to think of the religion. Doubly so if we're talking about Wiccans outside of Britain. You can't rank this stuff from best or worst, or anything like that..."

Wasn't trying to rank things, merely wondering about age/length of traditions. Gardnerian stuff is still fairly new, a 20th cent thing.
I've not got round to reading The Triumph of the Moon: A History of Modern Pagan Witchcraft or any other text that looks at the Hx of the craft so I'm not familiar with the flavours of things.
I used to know some folk on this path when I lived in Edinburgh in ye olden dayes, but have no one to discuss this with near me now...so thanks to the interweb daemons I ask here.
If it works use it, if it's not dogmatic use it, who cares about the age of the tradition...
However, when things are claimed to be ancient and aren't I look for the mark in the room.
Are there any books anyone knows of that looks critically at how old the craft is? (Please don't suggest The God of the Witches)
Been reading a load of 15/16/17th cent Hx, some touching on witchtrials and some on reformation prosecution of heretics, and nothing seems to imply a structured cult of any kind...mainly shamanistic stuff, or (sort of) chaos magic with a faerie/xtian saint related paradigm.

I was similarly irked by The God of the Witches Old-Barbarossa!

Old-Barbarossa wrote: "Are there any books anyone knows of that looks critically at how old the craft is?"

Okay, I originally responded to this a couple days ago, but deleted my answer after realizing I completely misread your post. Sorry about that!

To answer your immediate question about books: No. While there is plenty of literature on the development of modern pagan politics, the narrative of the creation of Wicca is not as well documented. We do, however, have access a lot of the primary sources that Gardner used to formulate his practices. If you're willing to do the research and make your own conclusions, you don't even need a book to tell you all about it!

Just to be clear, though: Gardner created Wicca. It's not an ancient religion, nor has it ever been. He used flawed or misinformed research to justify claiming his practices were actually a revived old unknown religion. So, to find out how old Wicca is, subtract 1954 from 2016. Pretty simple, right?

It is commonly accepted that a huge part of Gardner's inspiration came from turn-of-the-century occultism and Murray's witch-cult theory, which is likely why people have pointed you towards her God of the Witches--just because the theory is fake doesn't change the huge influence it had. The same can be said for Aradia: Gospel of the Witches, for that matter. Fake, but influential nonetheless. Histories on groups like the Golden Dawn or the Freemasons are a better place to start looking, too. Looking into the Romantics might help too, as they started the whole reinvigoration of old Celtic/fairy legends and the like, which leads directly to the Victorian obsession with old superstitions and witchcraft, in turn leading right to Wicca.

As most of Gardner's books and letters are now published in one way or another, you can also look those. Once more with feeling: Wicca started with him.

Judging by your post and emphasis on pre-Victorian studies and shamanism, you've been looking in all the wrong areas to research. Wicca owes a lot to groups/occultism/mysticism dating from the height of the British Empire, so there's a lot of crossover between classic folkloric practices and imports from other cultures. As such, even if Wicca was an old religion, it'd be silly to think it would match note-for-note with Witch Hunt-era beliefs.

EDIT: If it sounds like I'm dismissing Wicca or calling Gardner a liar, I'm not. He inherited a lot from the previous two or more generations of Victorians claiming their practices were legit, and then-current research seemed to support those claims. It wasn't until a decade or two after his death that stuff like the Murray witch-cult theory was disproven, so it's not like he really had the opportunity to defend himself about it.

Modern authors who continue preaching his pseudo-history get no sympathy, however, because they should freaking know better.

Lysistrata wrote: "Judging by your post and emphasis on pre-Victorian studies and shamanism, you've been looking in all the wrong areas to research. Wicca owes a lot to groups/occultism/mysticism dating from the height of the British Empire, so there's a lot of crossover between classic folkloric practices and imports from other cultures. As such, even if Wicca was an old religion, it'd be silly to think it would match note-for-note with Witch Hunt-era beliefs..."

Not so much looking in this period as stumbling upon relevant info while reading up on a period I'm currently interested in...as I stumbled onto The Golden Ass when reading around 1-3rd cent stuff.
I fear we may be at cross purposes. I get what you're saying and agree.
What I was really asking was, does anyone know of any texts covering the Hx of the allegedly non-modern versions/flavours of TBW? I have long ago discounted Murray's view.
I personally think there has never been anything more than localised traditions that cross pollinate with whatever the dominant major religion is.

Old-Barbarossa wrote: "Lysistrata wrote: "Judging by your post and emphasis on pre-Victorian studies and shamanism, you've been looking in all the wrong areas to research. Wicca owes a lot to groups/occultism/mysticism d..."

Thanks for putting up with my tendency to ramble, by the by. I still say Victorian mysticism/occultism is your best bet, but I get what you're asking. You're more after the witchcraft than the religion, no?

Have you tried any of Philip Heselton's books, by chance? While I don't think Wiccan Roots: Gerald Gardner and the Modern Witchcraft Revival is what you're looking for, it might better clarify which practices are pre-modern and which aren't.