القرآن الكريم discussion

The most amazing book of fiction I have ever read!

al-Qur'an isn't fiction book :)

yupp its not fiction ♥♥

So there really was a Noah's Ark?

The Holy Qur'an was revealed to a man (Muhammed) who could not read or write in the 7th century. What was revealed to him was not known to him before the revelation.

He was a kind hearted man known by all in the city of Mecca as a honest and trustworthy person.

The character of the typical Arab male at that time (some are the same today)was ignorant and barbaric.

There were no scholars of Christianity or Judaism living in Mecca; therefore, anyone saying that what was revealed to Muhammed was copied (by who) from the Torah or Gospel have no evidence to justify their false charge.

Any decent human being who reads the Holy Qur'an, will feel with certainty within their hearts that this message is from The Lord-Creator of the Heavens and Earth.

I must admit that I had some interpretive trouble with the N.J. Dawood translation (Penguin). But then I started reading Karen Armstrong's Muhammad, which is a biography. I highly recommend it for those of us who can not read the Qur'an as it was meant to be read--in Arabic. Finally, we should respect the sacred books of others, like the Prophet did, and not call them fiction. That's incivility and very poor form. Peace.

So again I ask does that mean there really was a Noah's Ark?

And what about the lines about how it's ok for a man to beat his wife if she disobeys? Should we not criticize those lines?

Jimmy wrote: "So again I ask does that mean there really was a Noah's Ark?

yes there is.
just because you can't prove it yet, doesn't meant it is not true :). if you want to know more about scientific facts in the al-Qur'an, I recommend you to read "The Qur'an and Modern Science" by Dr. Maurice Bucaille.

--
about beating a wife, there is rule about it (must without scars, not on her face, etc and a husband do it after advices not work for her),
please read more about Islam, and Inshaa Allah you will more understand about Islam :)

Could you tell me more about the rule for beating a wife? Where does it say "without scars, not on her face, etc and a husband do it after advices not work for her?" Where did you get those added details from, Muhammad, if you don't mind my asking?

hey People of the Book!

before your all questions, you should read the Tafseer.
cause you can never understand perfectly if you only read the Quran without Tafseer!

Thanks for the information, Nun. I thought I understood the phrase "People of the Book" but what does it mean to you that you would use it here?

Muslims only read the quran or what?...answer me

There were no scholars of Christianity or Judaism living in Mecca; therefore, anyone saying that what was revealed to Muhammed was copied (by who) from the Torah or Gospel have no evidence to justify their false charge.

Mohammed and his tribe lived amongst the Jews of Mecca and in the Koran they are called The People of the Book. He also visited Syria and met both Jews and Christians there. Modern research has indicated that Muhammad initially took on himself many aspects of Rabbinic Judaism. His first followers were directed to face towards Jerusalem in prayer and to recite three daily prayer services and special Friday evening prayers in imitation of the Jews. He also required that his followers keep kosher, the fast of Yom Kippur and were to be circumcised. In the Qur'an it is recorded that the native Jewish Priests rejected his claims to be a new prophet, and Muhammad in turn renounced them for deserting him and later requested that his followers pray towards Mecca. All traces of the Sabbath were eliminated when Friday was declared a day of public prayer on which work was allowed. The month-long fast of Ramadan was instituted in place of Kippur.

At Medina, after quarrelling with the Meccan Jews, Muhammad overthrew the ruling Jewish elite, confiscated Jewish land, built a theocratic state, and led raids on trading caravans from Mecca. Most of Mohammed's post-Meccan conquests were of Jews in the Arabian peninsula and the traditional Islamic hostility towards Jews started then.

So it can clearly be seen that Mohammed had a lot of contact with Jews and the similarity of the Koran to parts of the Bible is evident to anyone who reads both of them - the story of Noah being just one example, the stories of Abraham and Moses are others.

Muhammad wrote: "al-Qur'an isn't fiction book :)"

Yes it is. Just like the Bible and any of a myriad of other 'Holy Scriptures' Your Allah is a myth as well.

John wrote: "Muhammad wrote: "al-Qur'an isn't fiction book :)"

Yes it is. Just like the Bible and any of a myriad of other 'Holy Scriptures' Your Allah is a myth as well."

It's pretty rude to insult other people's religious beliefs John. Just because you're a non-believer doesn't mean that you should tell people that God is a myth. No one will put down your beliefs because you have the right to choose what you believe. You should offer that same courtesy to others. Also, it's not "your Allah". God has many names.

Jimmy wrote: "Thanks for the information, Nun. I thought I understood the phrase "People of the Book" but what does it mean to you that you would use it here?"

I know it's been a while Jimmy, but it means people who believe in the God of Abraham as the one and only God. To Muslims it means Christians and Jews, people of other faiths that believe in the same God.

I think it is better to refer to me by name than as part of a group that I don't belong to, Marsha. I am an individual.

I can't speak for John, but what I am fighting back against is ignorance. There are parts of the Bible and the Qur'an that reflect nothing but ignorance. And that is forced upon children without their permission. It's time to start telling it like it is. No one need to be insulted. It's not personal, it's freedom from the chains and tyranny of religion.

Marsha wrote: It's pretty rude to insult other people's religious beliefs John. Just because you're a non-believer doesn't mean that you should tell people that God is a myth. No one will put down your beliefs because you have the right to choose what you believe. You should offer that same courtesy to others. Also, it's not "your Allah". God has many names."

Yes you are right, Marsha. It is pretty rude to insult other people's religious beliefs. However it is ruder still to hold up a scripture as your moral compass that says, in part:

Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them. 4:89

Or

If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you ... Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die. -- Deuteronomy 13:6-10


Whether you are Muslim, Jew, or Christian, either you are at least partly an unbeliever, or you are a murderer. You deserve much more than a little riducule.

I enjoy insulting people of faith, and believe with the same fervor that they believe their foolishness that I have an obligation to the greater good to continue to do so.

Allah, God, Yahweh, Jesus -- All myths, no more real than Odin, Zeus, Mithra, or any other of the many hundreds of supernatural beings invented out of ignorance and superstition. Equally ignorant is the utterly unsupportable notion that we can all somehow peacefully coexist.

WAKE UP People. Read their books. The self-righteous bastards want to kill us and each other, or at the very least legislate us into behaving in their mold.

Ok you have a right to believe God might be a myth but you have no right to make fun of people for believing. what you are saying about killing each other is not true

William wrote: "Finally, we should respect the sacred books of others..."

So, we should respect:

Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them. 4:89 ??

How can I expect peace from you if your book says THAT?

You are a murderer and a hate monger. Your book is fiction and your god is a myth.

Sara-Sadiya =D wrote: "Ok you have a right to believe God might be a myth but you have no right to make fun of people for believing. what you are saying about killing each other is not true"

So none of the following is actually written in your quran?

The disbelievers are an open enemy to you. 4:101

If they ... assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief. ...
Fight them! Allah will chastise them at your hands, and He will lay them low and give you victory over them 9:12-14

Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah. 9:29

Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you. 9:123

They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve ... take them and kill them wherever ye find them. 4:89

Slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. 9:5

Or do you just conveniently forget about those verses? That stuff is right out of your book so either you don't believe this trash or you are a murderer. There is no in between. And the Christians and Jews are just as bad.

Your god allah is a myth and the quran is utter fiction. (lower case on purpose)

Sara-Sadiya =D wrote: "Ok you have a right to believe God might be a myth but you have no right to make fun of people for believing. what you are saying about killing each other is not true"

Yes I do have a right to ridicule your ignorance. I have an obligation to do so as well.

John wrote: "William wrote: "Finally, we should respect the sacred books of others..."

So, we should respect:

Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them. 4:89 ??

How can I..."

That's not true and i'm 14 how could i have killed someone?

John wrote: "Sara-Sadiya =D wrote: "Ok you have a right to believe God might be a myth but you have no right to make fun of people for believing. what you are saying about killing each other is not true"

Yes..."

I respect you don't believe respect that I do, please. Thank you.

John wrote: "Sara-Sadiya =D wrote: "Ok you have a right to believe God might be a myth but you have no right to make fun of people for believing. what you are saying about killing each other is not true"

Yes..."

John, you are the only person here who is spreading hatred. You are calling us murderers and hate mongers. No one else, but you, is saying anything negative. People who are looking for hate always find it. If you don't believe, you don't need to spit insults as those of us who do. One of us is actual only 14 and yet your being so mean. I don't have it in me to murder, I'm a wife, mother of a 2 year old, teacher, and grad student. I spend my life trying to do good other people. What do you do with your life? Besides insulting people? You might as well start insulting us because of our ethnicity next.

Sara-Sadiya =D wrote: "John wrote: "Sara-Sadiya =D wrote: "Ok you have a right to believe God might be a myth but you have no right to make fun of people for believing. what you are saying about killing each other is not..."

Sweet heart, please do not be offended by this man. He is very sad because of all of this hate in his heart. Please keep him in your prayers and ask God to bring him peace.

Marsha wrote: "Sara-Sadiya =D wrote: "John wrote: "Sara-Sadiya =D wrote: "Ok you have a right to believe God might be a myth but you have no right to make fun of people for believing. what you are saying about ki..."

Thank you. One person saying something insulting hurts, but one person being nice and sweet fills a person with happiness and joy because of it. Thank you! =D

Marsha wrote: "Sweet heart, please do not be offended by this man. He is very sad because of all of this hate in his heart. Please keep him in your prayers and ask God to bring him peace.
"

Do not pray for me. You are wasting your time. There is no god. I don't hate any of you. I just want you to stop hating me. Either you believe in your book or you don't. If you believe in only part of your book, then you really don't believe in any of it because you must have already had a moral compass before you started reading it in order for you to pick and chose the parts that you will believe. The whole book is fiction. If you do believe in all of it, then you belive in Sura 4 Verse 89 -- that your mythical allah is telling you to kill non-believers. So if you haven't killed an infidel lately, then then you are simply telling allah to f***-off and that you will do what you please.

When will you women wake up and realize that Mohammed and all of the men who followed him are nothing but misogynist pigs that need this horrible concocted moral structure in order to force you women to give them sex when they want it. You know in your heart of hearts that I'm right.

I'll tell you what. I'll make you a bargain. On my part I will publicly apologize for any and all insults I have sent your way. You choose the forum. On your part, you go to your Imam, in public, and tell him that you reject all verses of the Qu'ran that dictate that you kill, hate, or reject the company of those who choose not to believe in Islam. You can choose your own venue for this so long as it is in public within the city limits of Tehran, Iran.

Let me know where and when you (or those of your family that survive) want to hear my apology.

John wrote: "Marsha wrote: "Sweet heart, please do not be offended by this man. He is very sad because of all of this hate in his heart. Please keep him in your prayers and ask God to bring him peace.
"

Do..."

John,
I do not know you. Why would I hate you? This is the U.S.A. People have the right to believe what they want. I do not hate people who do not believe in God. I do feel for you though. When you mention chapters in the Quran, you need to put them in context. If people are coming to kill you for who you are and what you believe you have the right to fight back. That what was happening to Muhammad. People were out to kill him for teaching something opposite of what they believe. I will never, even on the pain of death, tell any Imam that I reject the Quran. I so don't need you to apologize. You may have hurt my feelings, but I will get over it. I know in my heart that you don't really mean to be this hurtful, but you should look at what you wrote and compare it what what I wrote and the other people who posted. You are doing what you have accused us of doing, spreading hate. I already mentioned that there is a 14 year old girl following these discussions and still you are mentioning inappropriate things and being insulting. Like I said, I don't hate you. I feel bad that you are this angry that you verbally attack people you've never met. I promise that I will pray for you, and if you think that there is no God, think of it a different way........I'm sending positive energy into the universe and hopefully it will come your way.

Marsha wrote: "John wrote: "Marsha wrote: "Sweet heart, please do not be offended by this man. He is very sad because of all of this hate in his heart. Please keep him in your prayers and ask God to bring him pea..."

Be posisitive John! =D

BTW I am 14, going to be a freshman, wear the hijab, have plenty of friends who do and don't believe in God, but not Islam. I am not killing them. I am a talkative, fun, easy going girl. I think that is a normal teenage life. I read the Qur'an and many of it's verses to me are inspirational. I respect you don't believe in God. But I have never in my life told anyone to start believing in Islam, the way you are telling me and Ms. Marsha to stop believing. I am a pretty normal teenage girl, who is nothing of what you accuse me to be. Please respect people the way they respect you, or you might not have any left. Please be more careful about what you say. Thanks! =D

Dream! Live! Discover! =D (my signiture line and smiley!)

BTW John none of your comments are that offensive, now that I read Ms. Marsha's comments. I am actually sitting here at me laptop, texting and reading (yes i can do that at the same time) rolling my eyes at you. Because all you're trying to do is spread hate. Guess what it's not working! Now i feel i've wasted some of my life actually being upset about what you said even if it was for five minutes.

Jimmy wrote: "Could you tell me more about the rule for beating a wife? Where does it say "without scars, not on her face, etc and a husband do it after advices not work for her?" Where did you get those added d..."


I couldn't follow the thread further, but this man answered your question in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJNU2x...

Good watch ;-)

Thanks, Schneller, that was something else. He still doesn't explain where exactly the lines come from. Nor does he wonder about what a woman should do when her husband behaves badly. It's a male dominated society.

Jimmy wrote: "Thanks, Schneller, that was something else. He still doesn't explain where exactly the lines come from. Nor does he wonder about what a woman should do when her husband behaves badly. It's a male d..."

You're welcome :)
In Arabic the words aren't confusing as they may seem in English, as well as the context of the Quranic verse. Islam is a system of living that covers all the human's life' aspects: (economy, relationship, spirituality, hygiene, etc.), so we cannot just interpret the verses as they were written, but rather the context and for which purpose were these verses revealed (Quran wasn't written as a bulk, it was being revealed during a period of 23 years, and each occasion where Muslim found themselves in a new situation verses were being revealed).
Islam rules come from two sources: Quran and the Sunnah of the prophet (The words of Muhammad PBUH or his deeds). Not everyone has the right to interpret the texts and scriptures unless he has enough science (Arabic, tafseer which is the Quran interpretation, rules of deduction, etc.), and as the sheikh in the video said, Prophet Muhammad PBUH has never laid his hand on a woman. The women’s abuse in Arab world gave a negative idea about Islam, ‘cause in reality, Arab countries are neither fully Islamic countries (Islam isn’t the source of the constitution) nor democratic, there are no real human rights.
If the woman is being mistreated by her husband, she can tell her parents/family, the man's family or wise people so they can interfere and solve the dispute if it's not major. Otherwise, the judge would interfere, etc. I'm not specialist in this, but there is a whole process to solve problems between couples. Islam emphasizes a lot upon the importance of family and the wellbeing of all its members. The issues we see nowadays are due to the lack of awareness amid Muslims towards their religion, and most of them are Muslims by inheritance and not fully aware/convinced. What would you expect but a non-righteous behavior?!
I know, many concepts in Islam many seem odd or unjust especially for a westerner, but a deeper insight would give you a better understanding. It takes time to wipe away the misconceptions about Islam.
I tried to be helpful, if you need any further details, please let me know.

Peace out,

The Holy Quar'an is not any book. Its a book for muslims like me. It teaches us what we are to do and what we must accomplish. It tells us right from wrong and what the holy people of the past did to preserve our religion and teach us the ways of life. We beileve that the Quar'an is the words of God and Prophet Muhammad A.S. put it together here on Earth.

Good you give examples of right from wrong, Zainab, so that I can understand?

I was Catholic just 5 years ago, so I can offer some comparisons. It is pretty similar to The Bible in that it teaches you what do do in certain situations; "Thou shalt not kill....." In my opinion, The Qur'an is more specific to every day things like what to do about disciplining your children, what do do about debt and lots of other things. It's the same God, so the answers will always be the same, messages of forgiveness and love.

But what I am looking for, Marsha, are specific examples from specific passages. People always seem to respond in generalities when they refer to the Qur'an. Zainab mentioned he learned right from wrong. I'm looking for exact details.

Honestly, I didn't choose specific examples because there are so many examples in life of what to do. Here are just a few that I particularly like:
This one pertains to the diversity of all people and refers to that diversity as one of Allah's great works. It's very meaningful to me because I am African American, Irish, and Native American and appreciate the mention of diversity as good........................“Among His wonders are the creation of the Heavens and the Earth, and the diversity of your tongues and colors. Indeed, there are in this signs for people who are possessed of knowledge.” (Q.30:22)

This one pertains to giving charity and our motives for doing so.....“If you give charity openly so it is good, but if you give it secretly to the needy, it is much better for you, and He will remove some of your ill-deeds. And God is well aware of what you do.” (Qur’an 2.171)

This one pertains to honesty, particularly with dealing with money............................................“And give full measure when you measure out, and weigh with a true balance; this is fair and better in the end. And follow not that of which you have not the knowledge; surely the hearing and the sight and the heart, all of these, shall be questioned about that.” (Q.17:35-36)

There are soooo many examples of how The Qur'an provides rules for life. I look at them as reminders that Allah sees everything. So many people forget that and just operate as if no one will know what they think and do. Just didn't want to overwhelm you with a bunch of quotes.

You won't overwhelm me. I'm looking for a bunch of quotes, Marsha. Thanks for what you wrote.

Any time Jimmy. Thanks for asking questions in the first place. I think it's everyone's responsibility to know about other religions and not just judge and lash out. If you have any more questions feel free to ask.

Jimmy wrote: "Good you give examples of right from wrong, Zainab, so that I can understand?"

like what kind of examples?

You cannot disrespect a religion you dont understand or know what its about. Islam is based on peace with anyone and everyone, its more in depth... but you need to understand different point of views. Those terriost are not muslim. When there was a congresswomen shot in Arizona was that not a terror attack?

Lorenzo wrote: "I read the Qur'an six or seven years ago. I had the Abdullah Yusuf Ali translation. I have to say it was a lot shorter than the bible and therefore much easier to read.

Although the inaugurating..."

Thanks for that post Lorenzo. =o) That means a lot that there are so many people who can see what is the truth and what is a stereotype.

Marsha wrote: "Lorenzo wrote: "I read the Qur'an six or seven years ago. I had the Abdullah Yusuf Ali translation. I have to say it was a lot shorter than the bible and therefore much easier to read.

Although ..."

what do u believe is the stereotype in this conversation?!

I'm thinking back to what John was saying to me and others in this post months ago about how we hate him and are murderers because of what we believe and that women in Islam are being forced to give men sex. Scroll up and read that junk.

John -sorry dude- but you cant say that stuff. Its rude and plan old MEAN! What i beileve has NOTHING to do with you how dare you say that! We dont HATE. As any muslim would say "shathan!"

Precisely

Thank YOU!

What do you think, Zainab, about post #8 on how to beat a wife? Do you agree with it?