The History Book Club discussion

This is a place to discuss your favorite movies or ones you have seen recently that you liked/love.

Please tell us a little bit about the movie without ruining the plot; a little about the cast, maybe the producer or director, whether you liked the animation, the cinematography, the script etc.

Hopefully, since this is a history book club, it would be nice to have a few that have an historical theme or backdrop. Not a requirement for this thread.

My favorite historical movie is La Reine Margot - as the French Director's Cut.
As the director's cut it is far more than just a brutal depiction of the Bartholomeus Night of 1572. The director used not only the famous novel by Dumas but also Heinrich Mann's work on Henri IV for inspiration to create a complex story about the people involved. Instead of concentrating purely on the King and Queen and the court, Patrice Chéreau takes you into the streets of Paris, showing different layers of society, making it all much more understandable - but also all the more shocking.
I know of no other film displaying the heat, the dirt, the hatred and violence and the danger as well as the luxury as accurately as this one. The actors are terrific as is the directing, light, camera, costumes and styling.
A Masterpiece you will not forget!

by Alexandre Dumas
by Heinrich Mann

As a second choice for a historical film I would pick Kingdom of Heaven by Ridley Scott.
Another masterpiece - but only as a director's cut!!!- about Jerusalem in 1184 - between the 2nd and 3rd Crusade.
Sure, it's Hollywood - but Ridley's version. So: perfect story-telling (and quite accurate), terrific camera work, adventure, in short: movies the way they should be told.
Mr. Scott took great care to try and show Saladin and the Muslims the respect they deserve.
Also Orlando Bloom has a chance (which he takes) to show us he is much more than just a pretty face.

What a great post Andre and thank you so much for remembering those wonderful citations.

Thank you, Bentley. All I did was point out these two great movies.
By the way, there is another European film out on Henri IV, released in 2010 and based loosely on the Mann novel.
It is a perfect example what can go wrong if you don't know what you're doing. It is not enough to have a few actors in nice costumes/uniforms ride around on horseback, occasionally slashing right and left...
You need GREAT actors, a tight and good storyline, and and and.... I'm a little harsh here but all this movie had was color - no talent whatsoever. A complete waste of time and money.

Thank you for adding that comment...I thought at first you were going to say to "have something historically accurate in them". (lol)

that sometimes helps too...

Yes (smile)

Bentley, how good it is to meet someone with a great sense of humor!

Well it is buried down there somewhere (smile)

Favourite historical movie and i know im going to get critized for it is

by Philippa Gregory

Krystal wrote: "Favourite historical movie and i know im going to get critized for it is

by Philippa Gregory"

Not too hard, Krystal, I admit it was a fun movie, although I knew going in that it was not written by historians ;-)

My favorite historical movie of the last few years was:
The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford by Frederic P. Miller.

It starred Brad Pitt and had a very limited release in theaters. It was the best portrayal I've ever seen of Jesse James and Pitt did a masterful job of showing the unstable breakdown nearly everyone who knew him saw at the end and contrasting it with the charisma nearly everyone who knew him also saw. It only covers the last few months of his life. Casey Affleck was terrific as Robert Ford, also.

I enjoyed it thoroughly...enough to own it on DVD as soon as it released!

PS: There wasn't a good picture on here, but I did find a link.

Doug, don't forget the book cover:

Frederic P. Miller

I thought the movie was pretty good; the scene where Pitt gets killed is interesting. Wasn't he fixing a picture on the wall?

A historical movie I love...well I suppose it's historical even though it's about a horse race and mostly one individual....Hidalgo with Viggo Mortenson. Would love to cite this but I can't find a book link to it.
I just loved the story- the underdog with overwhelming potential that is finally realized. A man that wants to do the right thing and right historical wrongs. The cinematography was amazing too. (in my opinion :))

Troy Adele Geras
I can't find an author's pic... but I loved the movie Troy too. I think many give this movie a bad rap. Maybe people expected more from such a classic? I loved the scene between Hector and Achilles. I really fell for Hector in this scene. It's frustrating that the Trojans were duped and that Achilles (who does not seem like a bad guy) fights for such an ego maniac. Lots of lessons learned in this story.

And it's me again!
I also love "Immortal Beloved"...Gary Oldman plays Ludwig Beethoven. A letter was written by Beethoven giving everything to his immortal beloved upon his death. So his one friend goes on a search to find out who Beethoven loved.
I love the writing in this movie and Gary Oldman is a favorite of mine. I think it is incredibly romantic that Beethoven had an immortal beloved and if I am correct historically...they never found her. The movie is a little different.
The closest I could come to a book link to this is

Ludwig van Beethoven

My favorite film (or at least in my all time top 10) is La Grande Illusion. Although not based on a book, the script was released and is referenced below. Directed and co-written by the incomparable Jean Renoir, son of the famous painter, it was released in 1937. Set in WWI, it tells the tale of French soldiers captured by the Germans and their attempts to escape. The underlying theme is the code of honor between the two officers of the opposing forces. Starring Jean Gabin, Erich von Stroheim and Pierre Fresnay, it was released to the consternation of the Germans who were poised to invade France in the next three years. Renoir fled France and Gabin went on to be a tank commander for the Free French. A very sobering film when you realize what was about to happen in Europe.

by Jean Renoir

Autumn wrote: "And it's me again!
I also love "Immortal Beloved"...Geoffrey Rush plays Ludwig Beethoven.
Dear Autumn: in the version I saw, Gary Oldman plays the part of Beethoven.

Dick wrote: "Autumn wrote: "And it's me again!
I also love "Immortal Beloved"...Geoffrey Rush plays Ludwig Beethoven.
Dear Autumn: in the version I saw, Gary Oldman plays the part of Beethoven."

LOL :) You are very right! Oops...Now I must go back and put Gary in my favorite movie star segment...I put Geoffrey there too, but I meant Gary Oldman. Well, I like them both. Thank you for bringing this to my attention :) Oldman is fantastic- in my opinion he transforms into what part he plays and it makes it impossible for someone with a memory like mine to remember his name :)

I recently saw the movie The First Grader, based on the true story of an 84 year old man, Kimani N'gan'ga Maruge. In 2002, Kenya begins offering free schooling, and this man creates quite a controversy when he shows up at school wanting the education he never received because his family was poor. This basic premise of the movie is sharply augmented by a secondary part of the plot which explores the sometimes brutal colonial history of Kenya for which this man was on the front lines. After seeing what he went through in his life for his country, you see why he feels entitled to this right of education. The historical aspects of the movie are beautifully depicted through flashbacks of Maruge's tortured memories.

As a high school teacher, I wish I could show this movie to my students to illustrate the power of what they take for granted. When the DVD comes out I'll have to put it on the extra credit list!

That sounds like an interesting movie Cheryl, thank you.

My favourite historical movie? It would have to be The Lion in Winter: A Playby James Goldman . I have not seen it on the stage, but the Peter O'Toole/Katherine Hepburn film version is absolutely brilliant, especially the portrayal of the young Prince Richard by Anthony Hopkins.

Good movie, Tim, a true classic. Thanks for posting.

Don't forget when you cite, add the author and cover if there is one:

by James Goldman

Just wondering what anyone else has to say about the movie Anonymous. I saw it while it was in the theaters, and while I enjoyed the movie itself, and I sort of agree with the main class and level of education reasons for doubting who Shakespeare really was, I was horrified at the gross rewriting of British History done for the sake of sensationalism and movie sales. By the end of the movie I felt like I was sitting in the audience of a Jerry Springer show. It's a shame too, because I felt the movie was well done otherwise. But all I could think while watching the gross inaccuracies was "some kid watching this movie is going to think this really happened." I'll put the particulars in a spoiler thread, but I'm just wondering if anyone knows of any legitimate evidence that the following rewritings of history have any basis at all:


(view spoiler)[ If you saw the movie, you know that I'm referring to Elizabeth I having two children out of wedlock. The first was supposedly fathered by Robert Dudley, Earl of Leicester, before she became Queen - plausible, possibly, given the close relationship they had and the documented rumors that they were lovers. Their love child is supposed to be Edward de Vere, Earl of Oxford, and the real Shakespeare. Then Oxford is supposed to be the father (again, out of wedlock) of the Earl of Essex, who is known historically to be the son of Walter Devereux, Earl of Essex, and Lettice Knollys. THEN Oxford is supposed to have had an affair with Elizabeth (Jerry! Jerry!), neither of them knowing who the other is, of course. THEIR illegitimate child is supposed to be Henry Wriothesley, Earl of Southampton, also of known historic parentage. I know of no historical evidence supporting any reason to doubt the parentage of Oxford, Essex or Southampton. (hide spoiler)]

The friend I saw the movie with gave me byJames Shapiro, which I am looking forward to reading to get more detailed, historically accurate reasons for supporting the Oxfordian theories. :)

I am not one for great distortions in the storyline. And maybe that is why I have also not been a fan of alternative history although there are many folks who love it.

This just sounds like artistic license and distortions...but if you find any factual basis for all of this - let us know. Fascinating in a bizarre way.

I have not seen the movie. And thank you for putting the plot in a spoiler. That was very considerate of you.

Good grief!!!! There is no historical information regarding the information in the "spoiler", or at least as far as I know. I have no problem with people questioning "who was Shakespeare", and most of the theories seem to settle upon Bacon....but the information in the film is, as Bentley says, bizarre, to say the least.

Roland Emmerich is the director. He's in the blockbuster business - he made Independence Day, Stargate, The Day After Tomorrow, 10,000BC - so what do you expect...

Thanks for the input - glad it's not just me. I didn't pay attention to who the director was, so thanks for that too, Andre - it certainly puts it into perspective!

Cheryl wrote: "I didn't pay attention to who the director was, so thanks for that too, Andre - it certainly puts it into perspective!"

He's a nice fellow, that's not the point. It's just that taste differs. I tried Independence Day once and walked out. Same with Stargate and one more (can't even remember if it was Patriot or what...). So now I check the trailers - and ... don't go. His work is just not for me.

Jill wrote: "My favorite film (or at least in my all time top 10) is La Grande Illusion. Although not based on a book, the script was released and is referenced below. Directed and co-written by the incomparabl..."

Renoir is my favorite director and "La Grand Illusion" is the film that made me fall in love with him and my heart-throb Jean Gabin. I slightly prefer Renoir's "The Rules of the Game," though I know some people don't care for it. Renoir himself has a major acting role in that film.

Renoir wrote a wonderful memoir. by Jean Renoir

"The Rules of the Game" still (Renoir on the left)




Trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxs4P6...

Yes, Bea.....another great Renoir film. My little love affair with Marcel Dalio, who is in both films, started with that film....and you are right, it is not as well liked as La Grande Illusion. I can also understand why Gabin is your heart-throb......his scenes in La Grande Illusion with Dita Parlo when he and Dalio reach her farm are very sensitively handled. He was not the traditional handsome leading man but oh my, he was so Gallic!!!!!

Poster for film:


Gabin and Dalio on the run.

Sad that Dalio was reduced to playing bit parts in Hollywood after he had to flee France ahead of the Nazis.

Gabin may not be classically handsome but, to me, he had "it" in spades.

Have you seen "Pepe le Moko"? Gabin is to die for in that one.

Yes to all your comments. Probably Dalio's best role in the US was in Casablanca but as you say, it was a bit part.
I have seen Pepe le Moko and yes, Gabin is swoony!!! And how about La Bete Humaine? Did you know about his relationship with Marlena Dietrich?

Still looking good in older age.

I didn't know about Dietrich. Thanks for the tip.

Gabin never gave a bad performance that I'm aware of but for some reason La Bete Humaine is my least favorite of Renoir's films. I think it's the subject matter.

Gabin is also dishy in color. French Can Can, anyone?

Another film which ranks in my top ten is "Piccadilly", directed by the incomparable E.A.Dupont. A silent made in 1929 it stars probably one of the most beautiful women ever to appear in film, Anna May Wong. A Chinese-American, she had come to England to find release from the stereotypical parts that she was assigned in the US. She was not billed as the "star" in this film, but it becomes apparent once the film starts, that indeed she is the star. She is unbelievably lovely. The only fault that I find with the film is the ending which gives itself over to the very stereotypes that Wong was trying to escape................but overall, it is mesmerizing and her performance has to be seen to be believed.

As an aside, the lyrics for the classic song "These Foolish Things (Remind Me of You)" were written for and about her by her lover, Eric Maschwitz

Since I am on my silent film favorites, another that is wonderful to watch is the 1929 Pandora's Box (Die Buchse der Pandora) directed by G.W. Pabst. Made in Germany, it starred the American jazz baby Louise Brooks and turned her into a cult icon. She is perfect for the part but the Germans were not happy that an American actress had been chosen for the role. Her performance set those complaints to rest and it is the star in Brook's crown. It has a connection with one of the most infamous historic personages but I will not give it away.

Here is another film that I love......nobody has even heard of it but I don't care. Star of Midnight (1935) with William Powell and Ginger Rogers, is a sophisticated little murder mystery that is so reflective of the times......great art deco apartment, lots of cocktails, independent income, witty dialogue, and great clothes. You will not find it on any "great films" list but it is dear to my heart......just plain fun.

What a beauty Louise Brooks was, loved Pandora's Box. Somehow I've missed Star of Midnight, despite the fact it stars two of my very favorite classic stars.

Speaking of silent films, one of the best will be on Turner Classic Movies "The Essentials" on March 31. I am speaking of the beautiful Sunrise, directed by the great F.W. Murnau. I was wondering if anybody would be interested in discussing that film around that time. It is also available on DVD or can be watched on youtube. The film was the co-winner of the first Best Picture Oscar.



Trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvbGF0...
(This was the best visual quality I could find on youtube. I guarantee the DVD looks beautiful.)

I would be very interested. It is an amazing film although I am not particularly a fan of Janet Gaynor.....she is right for the part in this film but I could never see her appeal as a huge star back in the day.

Great adds Bea.

I don't know if you'd actually consider this a historical movie, but it does have a lot of history behind it. Pretty sophisticated for a cartoon, amazing animation and great story line. Shows just how the war (can't remember what it's called, Afghan? Iranian-Afghan if there was such a war?) affected its people.

The Complete Persepolis by Marjane Satrapi

This isn't the movie cover, but the movie is basically just the graphic novel animated, so.

Brandon wrote: "Shows just how the war..."

I guess you mean the Iran - Iraq war... it lasted 8 years. Between 400.000 and 850.000 people were killed - and I'm not even talking about the wounded.

André wrote: "Brandon wrote: "Shows just how the war..."

I guess you mean the Iran - Iraq war... it lasted 8 years. Between 400.000 and 850.000 people were killed - and I'm not even talking about the wounded."

Yes! I read about it in Jon Krakauer's book Where Men Win Glory, but I couldn't remember exactly what it was called. Here's the link to the book too, for anyone who's interested in it:

by Jon Krakauer

Happy First Day of Spring to all my friends in the Northern Hemisphere.

A little video from a movie to go with it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=...

Very nice, Bea. Pretty little Jeanne Crain.....one of those actresses who were "stars" in the day but have been somewhat overlooked in film history.
Have you seen Pinky, an atypical role for Crain and rather daring at the time for its approach to race.

I haven't seen Pinky yet but it's on my list. Both versions of Imitation of Life are interesting explorations of the same issue.

I felt that the Claudette Colbert version of Imitation of Life which starred the beautiful Freddi Washington as the daughter who was "passing", is the better of the two but, frankly, I am not taken with either version. There is another film (of many) that deals with this issue and it is just horrible in the manner in which it approaches the same issue. It is Night of the Quarter Moon starring Julie London and John Drew Barrymore. It will have you tossing rotten fruit at the screen. Not a well known film, basically in the "B" category, and just as well forgotten....but since I am a fan of "B" and obscure films, I watched it. I hated it!!!!

TONINO GUERRA, an internationally renowned Italian screenwriter who collaborated with Fellini, Antonioni, and other greats of Italian and world cinema, died Wednesday, March 21. He was 92. He shared three Academy Award nominations for Best Writing - Original Screenplay - Casanova 70 (1966), Blow-Up (1967), and Amarcord (1976).

He also wrote or co-wrote the screenplays for many other classic films, including: L'Avventura, La Notte, L'Eclisse, Red Desert (dir. Antonioni) Ginger and Fred, And the Ship Sails On (dir. Fellini), Nostalghia (dir. Tarkovsky), Landscape in the Mist (dir. Angelopoulos)and Illustrious Corpses (dir. Rossi).

May he rest in peace, in the knowledge that his work lives on.

"Il Deserto Rosso" monologue:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xyS8U...

"Amarcord" Family argument clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgLO7b...

Thanks, Bea. I was not aware that he had passed away. Indeed a very talented man who authored some of my personal favorites. And his work will live on. Riposa in pace

I just remembered a book I can highly recommend to lovers of studio-era Hollywood movies. These memos to directors and producers from the relentlessly micro-managing David O. Selznick are fascinating and sometimes perversely hilarious. Some of my favorites involve his vain attempts to bully Hitchcock.

by David O. Selznick (no photo)