Children's Books discussion

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/08/us/...

I JUST read "The Little Witch" to ds. I noticed Abigail A. read it, too. It is just so sweet and old-fashioned. We read tons of picture books here. I am a big fan of them. The only thing I don't like is the price. It is really difficult to pay 15 dollars for a hardback--something I very rarely do. I usually get paperback or if I buy a hardback it is on sale.

I especially like these comments Kirei
"picture books are not for dummies. Publishers praise the picture book for the particular way it can develop a child’s critical thinking skills. “To some degree, picture books force an analog way of thinking,” “From picture to picture, as the reader interacts with the book, their imagination is filling in the missing themes.” I still love to check them out from the library for my son to read with me and enjoy the illustrations.

I'm worried too. There are picture books I'd like to see back in print and appreciate all the new titles too. I don't want publishers scared off!

Picture book prices can really put a dent in one's wallet. But, new books in general can be expensive, especially if you are looking for a particular book. I usually send English language picture books and children's fiction to my nieces and nephew in Europe for Christmas, and the expense can really add up; but, they all love to read.

I used to spend thousands of dollars a year on books. They've always been expensive. For over a decade now, I mostly use the library. I do still spend a couple hundred or even a few hundred on books, although some years I've managed less than $100. Since Goodreads, a bit of that budget has gone for picture books, and I don't have any kids at home, and they're more for me than the kids I know. I do buy books as gifts, especially for kids.

I found that my local independent bookstore could get the books I wanted just as fast as Amazon. The price was a tad more, but I didn't have to pay for shipping. I still buy from Amazon, if that is where I first hear about a book, but if I hear about a book elsewhere, I try to order it from a local bookstore.

Thanks for posting this article, Kirei. This is so distressing but not surprising based on what I'm hearing from editors and literary agents. What worries me more than the limited number of children's books coming into the market is the limited *variety* therein. The publishing houses are going with "up market" and "high concept" books that are very commercial and/or with established authors and are especially keen to work on series where they can keep running with something popular. I think that, as with network TV and blockbuster movies, we're going to see more and more "same-ness" in children's books for awhile. Not that there won't be exceptions to this rule, but with fewer books released each year and publishers needing a guaranteed sale, they are less willing to take risks on new authors or different types of stories and I think that is a sad loss for children, too.

As Abigail said, though, I am not convinced this is going to be a lasting thing. As with all aspects of the economy, publishers and booksellers are hurting right now and they are doing all they can to eeek by. I think there is still hope on the horizon--especially if, when we can, we put our money toward the types of books we want to see :-)

Laura wrote: "I found that my local independent bookstore could get the books I wanted just as fast as Amazon. The price was a tad more, but I didn't have to pay for shipping. I still buy from Amazon, if that ..."

This would be a good way to go, if we actually still had an independent bookstore! :(

I've got more than enough books for myself from thrift stores, garage sales, and paperback exchanges, and for more specific titles I go to half.com and buy from families (like me) - but it's true that brand-new picture books do make a great gift. Many are lovely enough for adult readers, too.

Sorry, that was a typo. I meant "The Lttlest Witch." It's the one in your avatar! :-)

Chandra wrote: "Cheryl said 'Many are lovely enough for adult readers, too.'

Absolutely!"

So true! Of course, I buy used most of the time, too, and use libraries for most everything, as I just can't afford to buy new all the time. But I try to buy new every now and then because I want my dollars going toward the types of books I love (and want to see more of--publishers take note of what sells!) and I want to support favorite authors and illustrators which is so important in this current market. I think that libraries are also big movers and shakers when it comes to directing book sales so it's great to let the directors know what you want to see. While it's sad to see the dwindling picture book market now, it's encouraging to know we can do something about it! And, of course, just writing reviews on GoodReads and getting the word out about awesome picture books is great, too :-)

I enjoyed it. I don't know about ds.... He listened, but I know it is not his style.

I guess it is out of print now. I got mine from the library--they are very good about having old books.

I agree with Abigail that hopefully the one year trend in slow picturebook sales will slowly be reversed. In these tough economic times, parents should be made aware of how much they can find at the library. They often have used book sales there too.

I find the push for accountability in reading scores, the dreaded AR lists, & the worry of parents all to be factors in pushing children too soon beyond the picturebooks they want and need.

Recently I was disheartened to see my local Barnes & Noble had temporarily replaced the facing out display of new picturebooks to hawk the latest Movie tie in matericals. Yuck!

Librarians also need to ask publishers to consider reprinting successful titles of the past instead of pusing the newest things including the celebrity author picturebooks, imho.

The pictures add so much to the words that are read and we actually learn much faster visually. I agree with everyone and hope that this trend to have fewer picture books reverses when the economy improves. I see teachers reading picture books to children even at the third grade level and they love it.

David wrote: "Recently I was disheartened to see my local Barnes & Noble had temporarily replaced the facing out display of new picturebooks to hawk the latest Movie tie in matericals. Yuck! "

What a shame! Yuck, indeed.

Lisa wrote: "David wrote: "Recently I was disheartened to see my local Barnes & Noble had temporarily replaced the facing out display of new picturebooks to hawk the latest Movie tie in matericals. Yuck! "

Wha..."

Just like with our local Indigo/Chapter's stores. They're not only selling books, but movies and music as well, and their featured music (from classical to rock) is played so loudly that it is actually distracting when you're trying to browse for books.

I don't enjoy it when music is played in bookstores, not even soft classical music.

Lisa wrote: "I don't enjoy it when music is played in bookstores, not even soft classical music."

I would rather have no music as well, but if classical music is played softly, I can at least tolerate it to an extent. But Chapters basically plays loud music most of the time now, and the employees get really huffy and sarcastic when you complain, one reason why I mostly order books online now.

Chandra, I've looked at the full-size version of your avatar photo and agree it's a shame they're so tiny - it's so wonderful everyone should check it out.

Good points, Suzanne. I'm hoping the article was written more as an "alert-beware!" than a true prediction. After all, videotapes were to be the death of movie theaters, the internet is supposed to be killing newspapers, etc.... well, we'll see. I'm not too worried yet because we're not the only ones who have all these good reasons to keep picture-books in press.

Chandra, That is so sad and so infuriating. That's disgusting actually.

What a sad commentary on some teachers today if this is what they are doing. It is not always about learning to read "harder" books but more importantly instilling in our children a love of reading. They will then be motivated to learn to read more and naturally develop better reading skills.

And, quite a bit of skill is required to read a picture book. But, reading should be fun. When I was in school I kept rereading a lot of below grade level books because I liked them, but I was not at all below grade level in my abilities!

Chandra wrote: "I shared this article on my facebook page and my cousin who is a school librarian responded and said she can't count the number of times she has heard a teacher belittle a child for picking out a p..."

Teachers should not be permitted to belittle students. That is as bad as teachers using physical discipline (even worse, sometimes, in my opinion) and should not be tolerated. And, students should definitely not be ever taken to task for reading picture books, how absolutely silly.

Chandra, Absolutely. And reading up to age 8 is so variable and has very little if any correlation with reading ability from 8 or 9 up. Picture books are wonderful. As an adult, I'm rediscovering their pleasures. And your daughter is lucky to have so much reading in her life; she's doing great!!! Parents who boast about such things, well I have to wonder if their possible pushing will just turn their kids off of reading. Not all of course but some. I say for the most part let kids lead with what they want to read and that's for the best. I have a friend who when she was young, even though she read lots of books, her mother has issues with her reading comic books. Anyway, they never hurt her, and I doubt that they would have even if those were all she had read at the time. The whole non-issue of chapter vs. picture books is ridiculous.

Abigail wrote: "I ran across a listing the other day, for a brand new critical work that sounds intriguing: Crossover Picturebooks: Picturebooks for Children and Adults. Not out yet, but I hope to get a hold of a copy, when it is! "

Onto my list! Of course! If this is done well, it will be terrific!

Lisa wrote: "Chandra, That is so sad and so infuriating. That's disgusting actually."

I agree!!! :-/

I think another beautiful and vitally important segment of the picture book format is the ART! Gosh, some of the illustrations are just sooo amazing. Sure, the books are for language arts and getting kids to read and all that--but I also think they can be a huge benefit to children in terms of exposing them to various styles of art, and maybe even encouraging their own budding artistic endeavors. Of course, some early chapter books do have drawings but it's nothing like the engulfing, full-color spreads of picture books.

Abigail, it's encouraging to hear that your library's picture book section is so popular. Hooray! As you say, even if people are checking them out from the library vs. buying them at this time, it's still supporting the market (and sharing with kids!) and that is great.

http://www.bookmoot.com/2010/10/child...

I liked this essay. "St. George and the Dragon" is a book we just read, and it is challenging. Way more difficult than a "Magic Tree House" book.

I wondered the other day if part of why sales are declining is because of an increase in telephone applications for children. I've seen quite a few story books by Disney. I even see parents playing games with their young children.

On either the BookMoot or the parent who was misquoted in the NY Times Article's website, I read at least 2 different librarians who said that their picture book section has actually had an increase in picture book check out in the past 2 years... so hopefully, it is just a trend in buying as mentioned by others. I know that I personally buy most picture books from scholastic book orders because as a teacher, they have better prices (mostly on paperback copies) and I earn points toward more free books. I rarely go into bookstores for kids books...and really I get most of my books at the library (although I have loads of books at both home and school).

I do think that many parents "push" their children to read at young ages and try to get them to read chapter books early. I will admit to worrying (needlessly) on ocassion that my 7 yo wasn't starting to read chapter books as soon as some of her peers...it feels like there is pressure to perform especially since I am a teacher...of course my kids should be the best readers around. But really, my daughter is doing great (in English and Spanish...she's in a dual immersion school unlike her peers) and more importantly, she loves reading. She mostly reads to me from chapter books because she is so excited to be able to read chapter books now. But I read to her and her sisters from picture books every day. And as a teacher, I have read aloud picture books with first graders up to sixth graders...

In fact, we have a basal now and one of my biggest complaints is that it doesn't allow nearly enough time to read aloud multiple picture books that I love and the kids will love... I"m doing my best to work around that and get plenty of read alouds in but it is harder than it has ever been.

As for AR, the longer books are worth more, but since many picture books can be read in one sitting, it is still possible to earn plenty of points by reading primarily picture books...as long as the school doesn't disallow it...which would really be ridiculous, because picture books come at all reading levels and complexity levels.

Jenny wrote: "because picture books come at all reading levels and complexity levels. "

That is so true.

I think that at our school the kids are able to pick out the books that they like from the library as long as they are at or below their AR level and for his grade level they need to be in the picture book section. I wish that the AR tests were not just from within the school library as he tends to check out books that are not motivating to him to read, or ones that end up being to hard or have no AR points. I take him to the public library where we can look together and find the things that he wants to read then I just have to make sure it is on the school library list. The independent reading that they do every night is so much easier because he can pick anything to read (comic book, magazine, etc.) and it is just reading for enjoyment.

Chandra,

I'm glad that your child's teacher handles AR well. Having taught with it and without it, it has both positives and negatives, but ultimately I think it depends on the teacher/school's approach. In my comment, I just meant that I've seen students who read mostly picture books and still earned plenty of points. Reading one huge book for 10 points may take a chid such a long time (or may even be too hard and lead to low comprehension...) that they would be able to earn those 10 points more quickly/easily with 20 picture books (which are usually worth a 1/2 point...unless they are longer picture books).

While I still find the article a little sad, I guess I like to focus on what I can control. I certainly can't control how other people choose to spend their money (and I can't afford to buy enough picture books to personally make much of a dent in picture book sales! :)) but I can read aloud great picture books to my students and my children. I sometimes blog about my favorites and review them here on Goodreads. I also sometimes pass especially good ones on to other teachers. And if those of us who love picture books do those things then we'll raise a generation of kids who love picture books and see the value in them.

Jenny wrote: "While I still find the article a little sad, I guess I like to focus on what I can control. I certainly can't control how other people choose to spend their money (and I can't afford to buy enough picture books to personally make much of a dent in picture book sales! :)) but I can read aloud great picture books to my students and my children. I sometimes blog about my favorites and review them here on Goodreads. I also sometimes pass especially good ones on to other teachers. And if those of us who love picture books do those things then we'll raise a generation of kids who love picture books and see the value in them."

Well said, Jenny! I agree :-)

I like the 1/2 point books as well. A lot less questions and sometimes the stories are easier for children to remember. I am with you about reading and sharing as many pictures books as I can with my son. I've found so many from this group that are so fun to share and hope he too will see the value in the future.

Archived because 1. old and 2. far too many of the comments were erased when group founders left, as they were very active in this discussion.

Also, I think it's less relevant nowadays, with Goodreads and e-books becoming so very popular.

Cheryl wrote: "Archived because 1. old and 2. far too many of the comments were erased when group founders left, as they were very active in this discussion.

Also, I think it's less relevant nowadays, with Goodr..."

One issue with picture books on the Kindle and other e-book platforms is that rather too often, the transfer leaves ridiculously minuscule texts that are a huge pain to read (even with reading glasses) and often, even zooming in changes nothing.