My Adventures Through Theology and Beyond discussion
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Lynx ~ 10/1 Never Forgotten
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Oct 10, 2010 10:31AM
Okay... so... I guess we can talk about the Mormon way of life and religion, here.
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What do you mean, ""story" of the others"? Who would that be? I can tell you how the church started, if that's why you want... Oh, here: http://www.mormon.org/ This is one of the (three) church websites. This one is the easiest to use, and you can find stuff easier, and not in "mormon lingo", so it should be easier to understand.
No. I don't get it.
OkayWe don't consider the Bible as the only authority in matters of faith and order. We also believe in the Book of Mormon, and in personal revelation, and that the prophets recieve revelation from God, for the people today.
We believe that salvation comes through faith AND good works. I mean, if you had faith, you would be doing the good works.... keeping the commandments. You wouldn't have faith and go... steal, or murder or anything.
Also, where they believe in the Trinity, we believe that Jesus, God, and the Holy Ghost are all sepperate beings that form the Godhead.
@Lynx. please read these verses in the Bible-Galatians 1:6-9
-Proverbs 30: 5,6
-Deut 4:2
-Deut 12:32
-2 Timothy 3:16
Could you please give me the Mormon response to these? I was learning about this in World Religions, and I would love to hear your thoughts.
Hm.... thats hard! lol. But here's my fav scriptures(3 Nephi 22:10-17): 10) For the mountains shall depart and the hills be removed, but my kindness shall not depart from thee, neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed, saith the Lord that hath mercy on thee.
11) O thou afflicted, tossed with tempest, and not comforted! Behold, I will lay thy stones with fair colors, and lay thy foundations with sapphires.
12) And I will make they windows of agates, and thy gates of carbuncles, and all the borders of pleasant stones.
13) And all thy children shall be taught of the Lord; and great shall be the peace of thy children.
14) In righteousness shalt thou be established; thou shalt be far from oppression for thou shalt not fear, and from terror for it shall not come near thee.
15) Behold, they shall surely gather together against thee, not by me; whosoever shall gather together agaisnt thee shall fall for thy sake.
16) Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.
17) No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tounge that shall revile against thee in judgement thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord, and their righteousness is of me, saith the Lord.
I just like how, no matter what, we will be protected. We will always have the Lord's kindness, mercy, and peace. I also like the imagery of those verses.
If that's not what you were looking for as an answer... sorry. haha.
Julia wrote: "@Lynx. please read these verses in the Bible-Galatians 1:6-9
-Proverbs 30: 5,6
-Deut 4:2
-Deut 12:32
-2 Timothy 3:16
Could you please give me the Mormon response to these? I was learning about th..."
Yup. Give me a min to read them.
Galatians 1:6-96) I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7) Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8) But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9) As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have recieved, let him be accursed.
Are you implying that Mormons are preachers of false gospels? Or do you just want my opinion on those scriptures?
Proverbs 30: 5-6
5)Every word of god is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
6) add though not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be a liar.
5-Yes, he protects those who put their trust in Him.
6-We are not adding to God's word. He(god) is adding to His word by continuing to reveal his words to prophets. We believe that that verse is saying that no man should alter the words of God, theby changing it's meaning and leading people astray.
Deut 4:2
2) Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.
It's God adding, not us, and we do not change the words of God. God still speaks to his people, to believe he doesn't means that either we do not need him any longer, or he is incapable of speech, or he no longer loves us. We do not believe any of those to be true. We need him, he can speek, and he loves us enough to continue speaking to us.
Deut 12:32
32) What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor deminish from it.
Look at answers to scriptures above(Deut 4:2).
2 Timothy 3:16
16) All scipture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.
Yup! That's what I've been saying, and what we believe.
Does that answer your Qs?
Girl4beluga wrote: "wait could you post the verse...I want to read them....so I can see the problem"oh... me? yeah. Sorry, give me a min.
When people are asking us stuff that has to do with these scriptures, they are usually speaking about the Book of Mormon. The Bible is the word of God, and we believe the Book of Mormon to also be the word of God also. Many people believe that to be false, and think that the BOM is not the words of God... for how could it be? Well it is, and I just explained why. Also, they could be talking about the modern day prophets. They speak the word of God.
@Lynx I wanted how you interpret them, and how the Book of Mormon can still be true after such things are said in the bibleAlso, God is outside of time, he is the Alpha and the Omega. Why would he add revelations or change his mind? He already knows everything that is going to happen.
Even further, the book of Mormon itself contradicts itself. Throughout history it's main revelations have been altered. Between the 1830 copy and 1970 copy 3913 words were altered. According to the Mormon faith, Joseph Smith translated the golden tablets letter by letter. It was supposed to be the new, uncorrupted revelation as I understand. So how can you justify altering it?
Check out the chart on this website: http://www.bible.ca/mor-1830-changes.htm
Also, God is outside of time, he is the Alpha and the Omega. Why would he add revelations or change his mind? He already knows everything that is going to happen.Nobody said he changed his mind. It's just the need of the people that change. He saved the Book of Mormon for when the world was ready for it, then he helped bring it out into the world.
Even further, the book of Mormon itself contradicts itself. Throughout history it's main revelations have been altered. Between the 1830 copy and 1970 copy 3913 words were altered. According to the Mormon faith, Joseph Smith translated the golden tablets letter by letter. It was supposed to be the new, uncorrupted revelation as I understand. So how can you justify altering it?
God is perfect, he gives his words to mankind perfectly. Man is imperfect and recieves and records and translates his words only as perfectly as humanly possible. That is why we are taught to pray when reading all scriptures so that we get the perfect word and not just other mens recordings. And most changes were gramatical(I looked at your list) and people have no issues with the Bible being changed to be gramatically correct and up to date, so why make a fuss over this.
@ Girl4Beluga: and WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY "Word of God".
The words of God revealed to makind through his prophets throughout all the history of the earth.
Yes, but answer this first: What part do you not understand?
Okay. The book of Mormon and the Bible are the word of God. God revealed those words to mankind through his prophets. He still is revealing his words through the prophets, as he has always, so that is also the word of God. Everything revealed to mankind, through his prophets, including the new prophets and the old. Here's more detail: Commandments, warning, scriptures... just anything God has to say to mankind in general.
LOL! Meaning Abraham, Noah, Moses, etc. when they were writing the scriptures. They recieved personal revelation from God concerning things of spiritual wellfare for all mankind. That is what I mean. Same with the modern day prophets. And God wouldn't tell just a crazy person things that are of important to all of mankind. Anyway.... pray. Then you'll know without a doubt. What do you think Word of God means?
Now I am a little ignorant on the subject but I know Scripture wasn't written by any them.We have stuff written by Abraham(in the Pearl of Great Price) and Moses wrote the first 5 books of the bible. And Noah(at least that we have).... oops. lol. Blonde moment.
Do you have proof for this
I don't have all the answers, I don't know everything. God does, that's why we pray.
No but crazy people can lie to other people who are stupid enough to believe them.
that may be true... which is why you pray. but I assure you that there is none of that nonsense in the Book of Mormon. Not sure about the Bible, but I'm pretty darn sure thats all right also. And for the modern prophets... they are not crazy. We would know, and they were all appointed by God, and God would not place someone who would mislead the people, into a place of power.
I do pray but I don't think it should be used as a way to support ignorance no matter how bliss it is. IDK I don't think the Bible is the Absolute Truth so it doesn't apply to me.
It's not a way to support ignorance. It's a way to confirm what is right, and what is wrong, and is a way to communicate with God. Thats why we get answers in some form or another.
Also, I don't believe the Bible is absolute truth... but it still applies to me.
You cannot confirm this and the Bible was a bunch of different documents that was PUT TOGETHER in the late 200's (i think)Eh, oh well. They were the only prophets from the Bible I could remember the names of at the moment, and I was just trying to explain what Word of God was. And you understood, so what if I was wrong, oh well.
So in other words you are hoping that this is true
No. I know it's true, because I have prayed and recieved personal revelation on the matter.
Why?? pray that some idiot doesn't screw you over??? How about street smarts??
Look, this topic is about my religion, and we believe we should pray about things. Okay? So stop attacking me. That's not what this topic is for.
How can you prove this??? I am just pointing out again you might not want to talk in absolutes....
You don't know everything about my religion. You barely know anything. You don't know how we run things, and how we run things prooves that there are no crazy people as a prophet or an apostle. And nearly every member of the church has prayed on if the church is true, and the BOM is all accurate. From what I know, we all got this it is. Okay?
God never gives me an answer I have to figure it out on my own.....
He doesn't always give it straight out. Sometime our answer my come through another and we have to find it. Also, we have to pray with complete faith we'll get an answer.
please elaborate on this subjectThere is a scripture in the Book of Mormon(Moroni 9: 4):
4) And when ye shall recieve these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Jesus Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.
Everyone in the church is encouraged to do that. I have done that, and so has countless others. We all know that that is true.
I am in no way trying to attack you I am not even mad..I am sorry you felt that way...I am just trying to understand...
It's okay... I'm probably just overreacting. I'm sick, and tired right now... so.... lol. Yeah. I'm barely awake, and it's only 8:30 right now...
You are right which is why I am trying to learn
I know. Sorry.
Okay, tell me how...
All of us are told to pray if the prophet is right. And we are told that no true prophet will give any commandments or instructions that are contrary to past revelations. Also, you don't become a prophet or apostle out of nowhere, there is a process but I can't of how to explain it, and I'm too tired to explain anyway. I'll explain later. Just remind me. But it's not that dissimilar to that of the Catholic church.
Okay so how does praying give you an answer and how do you know if it is true or wrong???
Let me find the scripture on that... alright. Here's one answer(D+C 8:2-3):
2)Yea, behold, I will tell you in your mind and in your heart, by the Holy Ghost, which shall dwell in your heart.
3)Now, behold, this is the spirit of revelation; behold, this is the spirit by which Moses brought the children of Israel through the Red Sea on dry ground.
That explain at all?
What do you mean, you are more skeletal? You know what... I really don't know. lol. It's like headache/dizzy/exhausted/congested/stomache ache... and a couple other things... but I don't think it's a cold, or allergies. :/ It totally stinks. I've had it for a few days(maybe a week), and some days I feel fine, but then I'll feel really bad every... And I know it's not my sugar sensitivity(when I have a lot, I get those symptoms, only stomache ache is worse, and headache is worse) cause I've been on a strict no sugar diet for the last two weeks... all I've had was one fourth of a whole wheat cinnamon roll without frosting.... *sighs*
Girl4beluga wrote: "lol meant skeptical."Ooooooh. lol. :D
why what? Why have I been on a strict sugar diet? Or why do I feel sick?
Cause I feel sick whenever I eat sugar... I couldn't have any at all when I was little cause I had a worse allergic reaction. It was awful. I mean, we lived just out of Las Vegas at the time, and I couldn't have sugary drinks... or ice cream... or popsickles... or anything. I could have cake though. Just no frosting. :( So every once in a while nowadays, I get really bad and I'll eat ice cream every day, or make a ton of chocolate chip zuccini bread, and just... pig out on sugar. Then after a few days of that, I'll become sick or just start feeling really bad.... and I'll slowly stop eating sugar for a while, cause I don't want to be sick. So I'm glad, cause for the last two weeks(almost exactly) I've been very good. Probably won't last much longer though... I'll start wanting hot chocolate soon.... hm....
ooooooooooooooooh. That must be awful. :O I love cheese(fav food pretty much)... and dark chocolate(all others are too sweet). And for oranges... I prefer grapefruit. lol. I pity you. :( I always thought my sugar problem was bad...
O.O That sounds worse....
I feel bad for the both of you!!! Wow..
o.o Lynx...you sure you don't have a mild form of diabetes or something?
I don't. I mean, I had an actual allergic reaction to sugar(hives and all) when I was little. If people can be allergic to stuff like... the sun... or wheat, or other such common things, why can't someone be allergic to, or have a sensitivity to, sugar? You know what I mean... and the symptoms are not the same at all.
Alright, I just never heard of an allergy to sugar before...:P
I'm just special. ;D In a.... odd way. haha.
Wow Lynx, it looks like you alone have been answering everyone's questions about us Mormons. I think you did a pretty good job.
Girl4beluga wrote: ""No. I know it's true, because I have prayed and recieved personal revelation on the matter."please elaborate on this subject
We feel that Heavenly Father can speak to everyone through the Holy Ghost. That's how we know it's true. Because we have prayed and have had that feeling from the Holy Ghost, that is telling us that it is true.
Some good scriptures about how the Holy Ghost speaks to us are:
Doctrine and Covenants 8:2-3
'Yea, behold, I will tell you in your mind and in your heart, by the Holy Ghost, which shall come upon you and which shall dwell in your heart.
Now, behold, this is the spirit of revelation;'
This is telling us how the Holy Ghost speaks to us in our minds, he gives us ideas and thoughts, and he speaks to us through our hearts, he gives us that wonderful, warm feeling that lets us know that the things we are praying about are true. That's how we believe in personal revelation.
Another is John 14:26-27
It tells us how Heavenly Father sends the Holy Ghost to teach us.
We pray, do his will, and read the scriptures. We know that our Father will tell us, he lets no prayers go unanswered, though some may take longer than others. We know it is. We do not hope. We know. We know because He told us through his messenger.
Heather wrote: "Wow Lynx, it looks like you alone have been answering everyone's questions about us Mormons. I think you did a pretty good job."You're Mormon!!! yay!!! I'm not alone!!!! *high-fives buddy*
Yeah. Well, G4b... for us, prayer is like our telephone with God. Only we can't hear what He says on the other side. But we can talk to him and ask what we want, and he will find some way to make our answer known to us. Whether through the actions of another, or through the Holy Ghost. And since God knows all... if we ask in faith, and if we ask for good things.... we will get an answer. And the answer will always be the truth.
That was a weird change in topic.... lol! That's cooool. I've never gone scuba diving. But I don't want to go scuba diving... I just want to see the ocean that low... haha. I have a fear of deep water... so..... yeah.....
But you don't have a fear of deep water.
I know.... but my mind would know, and I'd freak out. I don't like water deeper then 6 feet. The most I can handle, is 12 feet... and I hardly ever go that deep...
That's high... O.O I'm scared of heights also(and germs(that's more of a "heightened awareness", then a fear), cramped spaces, and crowds... there might be something else, but I don't remember...). And that's awesome that you went to a stunt camp!
Yeah.... I know. :) I'm a scaredy cat... That is probably a bit OCD, is a loner, and has a social cue issue.... but I don't really let my fears show that much, and I don't act much like I'm a loner.. or that I have a socail cue issue... it's kinda hard to explain. I think I might have a split personality. I really do.
Oh! That's what I forgot... stage fright... that's the other thing I have. Yet I love acting and stuff.... :/
I have terrible stage fright :P I love scuba diving!!! I also really hate loud sounds :P (And then people always tell me to turn my iPod up xD) I love heights. I used to be terrified of them, then I made myself get used to them.
Scuba diving sounds really fun, I love being in water. I get claustrophobic sometimes. And I'm scared of heights (yikes).Rachel, I usually have my I-pod volume where the blue is off the bar and I ask my mom to turn down the radio in the car. I like to think that I am protecting my ears (I would not survive if I went to a concert)
I'm actually a bit uncomfortable in huge open spaces...go figure :PAnd, I love concerts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think that by the time the band starts playing, I'm too hyped up to care much about anything xP
I always overhear my parents' nightly conversations with 2 closed doors and a hallway between us. And they're whispering. It's so bothersome....:P
xD IIII LUUUURV CONCERTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
