THE JAMES MASON COMMUNITY BOOK CLUB discussion

We're going to be starting Wuthering Heights. I'm trying to finish Atonement tonight. I thought this was a good choice from the BBC list for October (Halloween). I really couldn't handle another big book, the Steven King on the list will have to wait.

Chapters 1-3

I started and I must say everything feels rather gloomy. Heathcliff already has that dark quality and his leaving Lockwood with those dogs is certainly sinister. The nightmare that Lockwood experiences is certainly a frightening one. So far this has the makings of a very scary story.

In the intro, I read that there has been questions as to who wrote this book. Some said that Emily was not the author. It is always ever so tragic to read when the children of the family die so young. I guess it was the times, although they alluded to the fact that Emily wanted to die. She was only 29. How sad!

Chapter 4-7

We learn more of Heathcliff's past and the companionship of Catherine. Mrs. Deen seems quite a noble character and seems to have a soft spot where Heathcliff is concerned. Hindley seems the brute. He beats and demoralizes Heathcliff and the bitter antagonism grows so much so the Heathcliff vows to kill him.

I am truly enjoying this book as Ms Bronte develops her characters well and makes the reader able to see into their hearts and minds. Social class is ever so present as it weaves its way into the children's lives and twists the way they relate to one another. (Heathcliff and Catherine) Hindley, a typical bully and villain, is ever so jealous of the feelings that his father has for Heathcliff.

Chapters 1-3.

The book opens like a whirlwind. No real introduction, it just throws you right in. I actually kind of think that was smart of the author. In essence, we are all Lockwood. Thrown into a mess of a family, home, situation and we can't quite get our bearing. You know that can't quite catch your breath feeling because of the dogs, the storm, the feeling that everyone wants you gone. Are we to think that Lockwood dreamed of Catherine or that it's Catherine's ghost. Heathcliff reacts as if he thinks it is her ghost. I kind of like when stories do this, make you wonder if it's all imagination brought on by the circumstances or if it's real. (I've never read the book, so I truly don't know.)

What a great read for October! It has all the elements of being eerie and suspenseful. I did read the book a very long time ago, but other than the names I remember very little, Shay. So, I guess you could say that it is like a first read to me too! Totally enjoying it!

Chapters 4-7
I think the father created a lot of the bad relationship between Heathcliff and Hindley. I can't help but think that he enjoyed doing it out of meanness. What do you make of them continually bringing up the issue of Heathcliff being a Gypsy? Is it so we are left wondering if perhaps Heathcliff's special treatment by the father was because the father was bewitched?

Around the time the father was dying he said about Hinley, "I doubt thy mother and I must rue that we ever reared thee!" Does he literally mean that he wonders if Hinley is his biological son or that he is so different that he can't figure out how he got that way? What do you think about the beginning of Mrs. Deens' narrative when she keeps referring and saying that other people referred to Heathcliff as "it"? How much of his behavior is due to how he was treated?

I know Shay, I feel as if that term Gypsy is so intentionally derogatory. There is no doubt that Heathcliff was treated deploringly after the father's death. Things get worse for him before they get any better (if at all they do).

I am a bit further on (Chapter 10) and there are quite a few surprises in store. I totally love this book!

I keep on wondering if Hinley is the way he is simply out of jealousy. I also wonder if Heathcliff is really the son and that the story of finding him in the streets was just a ruse.

It really bothered me when Mrs. Deen referred to Heathcliff as it. I think they all sense in him a power that they just didn't understand. Did they fear him I wonder? Meanwhile, what to make of Cathy? She so cares for Heathcliff, yet seems powerless to intercede in his behalf. She seems do swayed by the promise of money in the Linton family. Do you think she sees this as an escape from her present situation.

I think Hinley was always one of those sour children, but I do think he was made worse by the way his father favored Heathcliff. I never thought about Heathcliff being a "real" son, but that would explain a lot. I think on some level, you would fear someone like Heathcliff. There's also no denying that Heathcliff's will was the father's will, so he had power over people that he wasn't shy about abusing.

Cathy...Even Mrs. Deen described her as wild and odd. The only one that cared for her was Heathcliff. Once the father died, she lost all position and power in the family to her brother. So, by simply conforming to a few rules, she got positive attention. That alone would make a lot of people go along with a situation. It's hard to be the outsider when your home, life, everything is at the whim of someone else's pleasure to provide them. The fact that she is given clothes and other material things is icing on the cake.

Although I'm not currently reading Wuthering Heights with you all, I did read it back in the 90s, so can appreciate your discussion (and maybe chime in at times). Shay, to answer your question above, in British country dialect in that time period, "I doubt" could be (and often was) used idiomatically, to mean the opposite of the "lexical" meaning; it was actually employed to assert something. So, in this context, Bronte's original readers would understand that Hindley's father means, "For certain, thy mother and I must rue that we ever reared thee!" (That idiom also occurs in some other novels written or set in this period, like Silas Marner.)

Thank you, Werner.

I'm not reading it either, but I love the book so I'll join the discussion when I can remember what you're talking about.

When you say the only one who cared for Cathy was Heathcliff, you missed someone. Two people care for Cathy: Heathcliff and...Cathy. Cathy is the most selfish character I have ever encountered. I am not a fan of either of them, but Heathcliff's childhood makes me want to give him a free pass. There are also a few Heathcliff lines that almost make me like him, but they're later in the book, so I won't share yet.

It's amazing how I can love a book so much and despise the characters in it just as much.

I think that is a sign of a good book, Leslie. I do like Heathcliff so far and Cathy is just a spoiled brat. I am up to the part where she professes her love for Heathcliff and says that she loves him because he is just like her.

I am up to Chapter 14 ***Spoilers***

I am particularly caught up in the eerie and troubled natures of both Catherine and Heathcliff. Heathcliff's return marks a turn in the novel from one of eerie quality to one (I think) of demonic status. I read that Bronte wrote this book as a warning to too deep a love and if so I think it is becoming evident now.

With all of Heathcliff's faults (and they border on the masochistic), there is still that hope (at least for me) that he will win Catherine. I feel for Isabella, but not in the same way I do for the other two lovers. Catherine seems ever so bent on dying as if that would be the end to the suffering she feels in the loss of Heathcliff. (or is it a ruse?) It again seems that they will punish everyone around them because of not being together. I also feel for Linton as one can see he does care for Catherine, but of course is no match for the charisma of Heathcliff.

Mrs Deeds, I have some issues with. Why is she ever so bent to tear apart Heathcliff? Why does she not seem to have a lick of feelings for Catherine. Could it be that she has feelings for Heathcliff and resents his love of Catherine?

...and what of the young son Hareton? It seems he is being raised (?) in Heathcliff's shadow to be just like him.

It's true that Nellie Dean doesn't fare well in the estimations of some readers, and critics; but though she doesn't always correctly perceive every emotional nuance around her, I personally rather like her. To me, she doesn't come across as unfeeling or overly hard towards either Heathcliff or Catherine; rather, she strikes me as an unheeded voice of sanity, who wants the two of them to see that a lot of their behavior is misguided and self-hurtful. (And I never picked up any smidgen of suggestion of romantic feeling on her part towards Heathcliff!)

To tell the truth, Werner, since she is "the hired help", I feel that she goes overboard in the way in which she speaks to her "betters." She is definitely not one to hold her tongue.

I have just completed Chapter 24 and in it Mrs. Dean says, ....and firstly, let me beware of the fascination that lurks in Catherine Heathcliff's brilliant eyes."

Who is Catherine Heathcliff? Have I missed something?

Marialyce, I just started Chapter 11. Have had a two day migraine, so I'm behind. Don't know yet if I'll get a migraine today, we'll see. About once a year, usually during the summer, I'll get a cluster of migraines that last between a few days to a week. Today is the first day I woke up without one, but my migraine triggers are light, heat, and stress. So, it's a gloomy overcast day and the kids are still sleeping. So, I may still get one later today. All it took the past few days was even looking at the computer monitor (light) and I would start seeing the color dots and the headache would come roaring back.

Chapters 8-10

I get what Leslie said, that Heathcliff has good points. I think it says something about him that he saved Hindley's son. Had he let him fall, no one could have blamed him for it and he would have his revenge and see Hindley suffer. But, his first impulse was to save the baby.

I wondered at Mrs. Dean's motives when she let Catherine ramble on about her engagement when she knew Heathcliff was in the other room. But, it was probably more of a kindness because Heathcliff got to see Catherine as she really is. It seems like the whole family is engaged in a power struggle with every other person in the house. So, it's no surprise that even Mrs. Dean manipulates as well. Pretty much everyone in that house is a sicko and they contaminate everyone they touch or are around.

Shay, I hope you are feeling better. I don't get them often, but migraines are the worst. I hope your day is a good one.

Do you like the book?

Hmmmm! Marialyce, it's been several years since I read the book; but I've just gone through Chapter 24 of my copy of it with a finetooth comb, twice, and didn't find the sentence you quoted (in message #15). Could you have possibly been mistaken about the chapter number?

I could Werner, I am reading it on my Kindle but I will re-check my chapter. I know it was towards the end of the chapter.

Sorry, Werner, it is Chapter 14 last paragraph. Thanks for looking this up for us.

Ah, that explains why I couldn't find it! Okay: the "I" speaking in this paragraph is not Nellie Dean but the book narrator, Mr. Lockwood. Catherine Heathcliff is the daughter of Edgar and Catherine Earnshaw Linton, and the widow of Heathcliff's son Linton; 'Catherine Heathcliff" is her legal, married name, and so is the most natural one for Lockwood to refer to her by.

Thank you, Werner. I must have glossed right over the "I" of the paragraph. So Lockwood is looking ahead in his narrative at that point, I gather.

Sorry to send you on the wild goose chase with Chapter 24. The one thing I dislike about the Kindle is the inability to go back (at least my inability) to a specific chapter. I do love it in so many other respects though.

No problem, Marialyce!

Chapters 15-22 ****Spoilers***

It is amazing to me what an intrinsically devious nature Heathcliff has. He has certainly planned his revenge down to the very core of the people he so hates. I know where all this hate comes from but it is certainly eating him up alive. He is despoiling everyone around him and now wants that influence to bring Cathy down.

The character of Linton so despised by his father is not yet clear.(or perhaps he hasn't a character) He is a sniveling, weak person and I imagine Heathcliff can't believe Linton is his son. Linton obviously loves Cathy (certainly he would, there is no other woman around) and plays into Heathcliff's master plan. Heathcliff does seem to like/love/hate Hareton, but of course the young man has been brought up to be nothing, uneducated, rough, not a gentlemen in retribution for Hinton's treatment of Heathcliff He is the son that Heathcliff wants, but he refuses to see that in himself.

I like young Catherine. She seems the most untouched by the events of the book, although she is lonely and has no one to be with so naturally Linton looks good to her. She is gentle and kind, but also headstrong like her mother was. She does not seem affected like her mother was but that could be because they had little contact time. (thank goodness)

The environment seems to be another character in the book. It overshadows the personalities of the characters and all seemed to be drawn to the moors and their surroundings. In a way, the moors shape their existence which is rough, barren, but yet beautiful and wild.

Still loving this book!

I am finished. Wow! What a book, ever so poignant in its telling. Catherine and Heathcliff's story is timeless and ever so worth the reading. I am sad it is over and have thoroughly enjoyed being part of this mysterious, dazzling tale.

I love this story but I now have to read it again for the home study English Lit course I have decided to take. SHould be fun though visiting such a classic.

I am sure it will be, Sharon. It is a wonderful book and one that you can enjoy how many times you read it.

I just finished Chapter 17. I think my headache is gone, Marialyce. It'll be a toss up for another 3 or 4 days. Usually, my husband and kids are good about picking up the slack, but I have piles of laundry, cleaning, etc. Too busy of a week for me to have gotten sick.

Cathy seems to be one of those people who defines themselves by other people. They are like chameleons- they take on the personality of the people they are with. Well, with the following limitation, that they will only "fake it" if the person is capable of doing or giving them something of value. So, that's why she just evaporates when Heathcliff walks away. She can't exist without other people, she's the shadow an object casts, not real in and of herself.

She does, Shay, but I think so many of the women of the time did the same thing. They were not allowed to handle life. That is why it was so refreshing to read of women at the tun of the century did want to be empowered like Ethel and Maud in FOG. Women were bred to be in the shadow of their husbands, fathers, uncles etc. I am reading Orley Farm and they speak of a molded wife. I think of so many women who died not long after their husbands because they just gave up.

Wuthering Heights is one of my all time favourite novels. It is so shocking, amusing and entertaiining.

Emily Bronte is such a stunning and skillful writer that she puts the rest of her family in the shade.

Wuthering Heights is as much a parody of the Gothic genre as it is a standard romance.

I haven't read it in years, but I found it one of the funniest, romantic, shocking, breathtaking novels I have read.

Emily Bronte exercises a wit and wisdom in a way similar to Maria Edgeworth and Jane Austen before her.

I really must get around to re-reading Wuthering Heights again. Its satire is so pleasing and its author makes her romantic romp so intriguing and entertaining.