Q&A (and brownies) with J.J. Murray discussion
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That sounds interesting!
The idea for your novel sounds hilarious. It's definitely something your fans will enjoy.
It does sound interesting and time consuming. Also what do you take to watch all those reality shows?
Mod
Shows like The Biggest Loser and The Apprentice condense an entire week into 48 minutes (plus commercials) so we don't see everything--not that I'd want to see everything.
I was sick one night and couldn't sleep, so I watched Big Brother--the after dark version on Showtime--and was asleep within half an hour.
I will try to make the novel more exciting than that.
There is no other way to look at these shows. I usually only get clips of these shows, my nieces watched Top model(20 year-old crying about their one chance), Sweet sixteen[the money these spoiled children use for their parties were obscene]. Over the summer,a friend of mine made me suffer through Cut-off(she was guest). I think that was the worst b/c all those women were older,way passed the age of I am too young to know better.
Back in the day, reality TV was fun. But that was before everyone jumped on The Real World's bandwagon. I like the regular competition shows like TOP CHEF, or HELL'S KITCHEN, etc.Some definitely are scripted nowadays, I think. At the very least viewers hope they are because folks just shouldn't act like that on television, but then again who am I fooling? We see how folks act on talk shows like Maury Povich.
For a while I tried watching those love competition reality shows, but I hated the ones on VH1 like FOR THE LOVE OF RAY-J or FLAVA OF LOVE. It was sickening, yet fascinating, the way those women actually kissed! Flava Flav. Ain't that much reality tv in the world! One of the shows that I find to be addictive is THE REAL HOUSEWIVES OF ATLANTA. Those chicks are truly ghetto fabulous. I also watched DATING IN THE DARK a couple of times this summer because it was interesting how they didn't see each other until the very last minute.
JJ, I'm guessing your novel is going to be more like THE BACHELOR or those love competition shows? It could be really funny.
These shows are horrible and fascinating like a car wreck. Most of the time I feel my brain cells dying. I try to stay away. They only catch me at weird times like now. On the E channel what's eating you? A young man with a eating disorder and OCD and a woman who is a bulimic.
Mod
1 If you have watched either THE BACHELOR or THE BACHERLORETTE, what did you like the least about the show?
2 What unique challenges can you think up for the men to perform to impress their "princess"? (I have a warped sense of the world and want them to iron, clean, cook, create original poetry, sing, and shop for their princess ...)
That's all for now. Thanks in advance for any help you can give.
I haven't watched any of those shows to the end. I don't believe how easy these people "fall in love" with the one person in one or two episodes. I find it irritating how people wax on and on about how connected they feel to bachelor and bachelorette etc.I think the tasks are good a little perverse. However some guys are good at shopping, cleaning etc.
Hey Group, how y'all doing?Okay, so I haven't seen THE BACHELOR in a good while and the last love competition reality show I watched was the one I mentioned before, FOR THE LOVE OF RAY J maybe a year or so ago.
Here are some FYIs to consider. JJ, forgive me if you already know this but just in case. If I recall, there is a slight difference between how the BACHELOR and shows like FOR THE LOVE OR FLAVA OF LOVE did their shows. Your question sounds like you were blending the two formats.
On Shows like the VH1 versions (Flava flav, Brett Hart, Ray J, etc) the contestants competed by doing stupid tasks to WIN the one-on-one date with the star... and based on what occurs on the one on one dates, you can be chosen to stay or leave. It is the goal to win as many challenges to have as many one on one dates as possible so that the bachelor/ette chooses you because s/he has gotten to know you. Does this make sense? Hope I explained it right.
Ex: Girls split into two teams: teams a and b. Each girl is told that they must cook a fried chicken dinner for Flava Flav and his mother because his mother makes the best fried chicken and Flav wants a woman who can make food that rivals his mama's. So the girls on Team A and Team B each make a meal. So team A wins because 6 girls won their round and team B only has 4 girls. Then Flav will now choose a girl from team A who made the absolute best chicken. So Shamaniqya made the best chicken, greens, yams, etc. She wins a one on one date with Flav.
On THE BACHELOR, the guys took a group of women on a group date and based on how they conducted themselves on that date, they would receive a rose to determine if they can stay or not. In other words, the date IS the challenge. Here, you do not do challenges to get a date, but have one shot during the group date to convince the one looking for love to let you stay...it's a bunch of folks fighting for your attention all at the same time. \
So it goes from large group, to maybe two-on-one and then finally one-on one until the winner is decided.
So those are two different formats. Just thought I would throw that out there first.
Now what I disliked about each type of format:I personally didn't like the Bachelor type of show because I hated how the girls all had to fawn and foam at the mouth for the one guy's attention during the date. Over time, the group dates get smaller sure but if you're looking for love, how can you really give a girl/guy a shot if you are on a date with more than one person at the same time? It's hard to get to know folks even on a normal double date at times. Hated that aspect of THE BACHELOR.
In this format, I also hated the lack of diversity. Sure, a majority of the contestants looking for love was of one race, and his/her own race may be their preference, fine. There is nothing wrong with that. However, in the original "meet and greet" when they narrow down the choices for the women to be invited to compete, there was always the token monority. So out of fifty or so women, there was only one black one latin and one asian...out of fifty? Come on! Sometimes there wasn't even that. Either do the diversity thing or don't. At least the 'hood shows on VH1 had a diverse array of women for the stars to choose from.
In the other format, I didn't like the types of tasks the women had to perform to obtain the one-on-one date. Having said that, I think watching (or reading) that is more fun than the one for the Bachelor.
So if you are gonna choose that compete for the date format, some fun competitions could be:
The princess says she likes a man who is as organized as she is. So each man has to reorganize a walk-in closet within ten minutes and she chooses the best one. If it were me, an HGTV buff, I'd have the dudes build me a closet in under an hour. lol Or have them fix something gross like a broken sceptic system or unclog toilets...to prove their handiness. I would rather that then who poses best in their silk boxes.
or...
She likes a man who loves children, so each man has to come up with the most fun activity to entertain a group of ten boisterous children for ten minutes. ALONE. The children vote on the guy they liked best. The winner gets a one-on-one date with the princess.
Maybe she spends a lot of time shopping but like me she likes bargains. She wants a man who can food shop and find bargains...one challenge is to shop from a list and come in on or under budget. The guy who finds all the items on the list, and at the most economical price, wins a dinner with the princess. The problem is the list is made up of gourmet items that are difficult to find so the guys have to run around the city to get these things? Let's face it, a lot of dudes don't stick to the durn shopping list...even when you actually write down the brand, clip the coupons and even print out a picture of the label...they STILL come back with the wrong items and have the nerve to pay more for that than they would have for the thing you asked for. I would have that in my competition...you can dance but can you food shop for a sistah? Please?
Or if food shopping is too basic...she likes a man with good taste. Each man has to purchase a full outfit for her to wear on a date under budget instead of the food shopping challenge.
Last...maybe her dad was a military dude so she has a thing for a man in uniform. She has a Marine drill sergeant come in and make them run an obstacle course...winner wins an overnight trip to Virginia Beach.
The challenges get more difficult which weeds out the PUNKS and each prize is sweeter than the last. Maybe the last two "hunks" compete by creating the most romantic weekend trip? Ahhhh the possibilities are endless.
Stuff that could be comical but involves thinking.
I know these shows are the last place to look for substance but I dislike how the challenges were so corny and cliched--girl who looks best in a bikini. Guy who poses the best for a nude calendar. Arm wrestling for the dudes or jello wrestling for the women. It would have been cool to make the cast think a little more during the challenges.
Hey maybe they'll be an upset because the main character is actually losing the challenges but the woman likes him best...who knows. *shrug*
Don't forget the "confessionals" when each contestant speaks individually about their competition or their progress...usually when they bash the others or explain why they failed etc.
ALSO--when each week goes by, are you going to have the princess say something cliched to the guy that is getting kicked off? Something like, "John, I'm sorry but you're a Punk." and he has to go? It would not be a reality love competition without that corny scene at the end of each episode.
I am sure it's going well. It was a long post so I hope that it helps a tad. Sounds like a winning concept.
Vacirca, you know the girl on Flava show was not called Shamaniqya that is too unique, you know flava gave her mneumonic tag like Brewster Street.
If love and real relationships were ever found with these couples on the shows. It had to happen after the camera, lights and make-up was off. I think these shows tend to show the worse of ppl and we( the audience) lap it up like we are Romans at the Coliseum.
I think to write a love story with one of these show as a back drop is daunting. However if love can be found in a times of war and cholera, love can also be found on a reality show.
LOL@ JO.You're right, Jo. Flava wouldn't have named his contestant a name like Shamaniqya. That name was in my mind because she was the last client I saw at my job before I got online and remembered to post...
But giiiiiirrrrlll, it is so clear. You just can't stand these shows, huh? LOL Gotcha.
I personally think they are forms of mindless entertainment...but still hilarious. I doubt one should watch these things if they are searching for shows with substance. It's foolishness, really, but funny. In the end, I began to dislike the shows for the reasons I mentioned above, but I've watched them not for intellectual stimulation, but because they were a stress reliever. Just like HGTV and The Food Network are for me. In my line of work if I don't don't laugh and goof off sometimes, I'll need medication--like so many of my clients and colleagues.
You mentioned that writing something like this could be daunting...well, maybe. But if it's comedy, it might be really great. If JJ writes something that ends up being a parody of this reality-tv culture we've been stuck in since 1991, when THE REAL WORLD came out, then it could provide a good love story, and a social commentary at the same time. Or does that make it a satire? *shrug*
At the end of the day, do most of these folks end up together. Heck no! But it sure provides a goofy fun time for those that are glued to the television. Over the years, I certainly did get addicted to watching these folks act a fool for stardom--er, um love, just like the Romans at the Colliseum. lol That is until my pastor preached about us, as Christians, being careful what we watch, read and listen to. At first I resisted, saying, "Oh come on! It's funny!" That is until I came across THE BAD GIRLS CLUB when my fast-behind little cousin came over and begged to watch it. I realize how quickly something like that could pollute someone's mind. So I have been slowly but surely changing my media/entertainment diet...still, I can't deny that it is funny!
So, JJ. Is this new novel a parody or satire? Or is it meant to be just a crazy love story with some funny dialogue. Lord knows your work is hilarious...even that story about the trip to Myrtle Beach, which I still have difficulty believing is true.
Many of these shows especially the finding love ones get my feminist hackles up. They seem to make finding the right person to build a life with trivial and cheap. Many of these young women will just debase themselves and each other to have a chance to be on this one "famous" persons arm. I really can't watch them for long. I know I have got caught up in the crazy sometimes. I guess b/c it is that addictive. You end up watching real people say and do outrageous things.
Personally, I am tired of parody and satire in my entertainment. I will vote for a crazy love story with funny dialogue all the time.
Hi,Jo, it's true. I may have said the shows were funny and they are. However, it is still sad that people put themselves in a position to act a fool like that on television. I remember when I was 21, I sent in a tape to try out for THE REAL WORLD. I asked my mom what would she do if I got on the show. My mother said three words: "DON'T EMBARRASS ME." So I have watched and then I have laughed at times, but I wonder how folks' families feel seeing their relatives/friends on tv running amok.
I agree that I would prefer a crazy love story with funny dialogue. But hey, not for nothing, isn't that what JJ Murray novels are like anyway? I mean since we're discussing this latest novel of his.
To JJ: Is your latest work gonna be a crazy love story with great dialogue (as usual) or a crazy love story that parodies the reality tv love thing?
Mod
So far:
The show and its producers attempt to be all that you hate/despise in a reality show, but the main characters refuse to be drawn into that mess and are adding reality every chance they get. My main character (Sonya) is even changing the so-called "rules" and often.
And it's actually becoming (at least in the world within my novel) watchable.
Congratulations for your son's wins. You must be super proud right now. Do you have that "My Son is a TD catch Champion" bumper sticker. Overall I like the idea. I don't think I have the skill to do write a story like that w/o it being cheesy. So I stick with parnormal/urban fantasy/fantasy/general fiction. Tee hee.
Mod
Broke 100,000 over the weekend (125,000 is my target this time), and I still have many chapters to "finish."
I may have told y'all this before, but I write out the dialogue for the entire novel, similar to a screenplay, I guess. After that, I add thoughts, gestures, scenery--the flesh for the bones.
I may have 150,000 by the time I'm done!
Interesting. I have never thought of writing that way. I think every story has a path and that technique might work on story nagging me. Thanks J.J.
Mod
Despite snow (2 measly inches thanks to the Great Lakes) and cold (18 this AM at work) and the usual interruptions of daily life (like my job and waiting for boys to get out of practice), I've broken the 120,000-word mark.
Y'all, I don't usually get near that mark until well after I've finished the second or third draft. I'm still on draft #1.
What does this mean? It could mean that I can't shut up my characters anymore. They just keep talking and talking and going off on tangents. No, it's not me. It's them. I'm trying desperately to hook them up, and all they want to do is talk.
But seriously, it took 50 chapters for John (aka "Arthur") to earn a date with Sonya (aka "Jazz") on my fictitious show Hunk or Punk. He's such a lovable loser.
Random excerpt #1:
"Geez, these people have too much time on their hands," Kim said.
"What people?"
"The online people."
"I’m an online people."
"Not like this," Kim said. "You surf. These people submerge."
Random excerpt #2:
John shuddered. Accessorize. What an evil sounding word.
Random excerpt #3:
(after "Arthur" (John) burns some sheets while ironing in one of the challenges)
"Yes, Arthur burned the sheets. But what woman on earth would be angry if a man set her sheets on fire?"
Did she mean to say that? John thought. I don’t think she did.
"I mean," Sonya continued, "a woman could always use another set of new sheets, right? And if she gets new sheets …" Sonya turned to Shani.
"Then she’d have to get a new comforter," Shani said. "And new pillows …"
"New drapes, new carpet …" Sonya smiled.
Then Shani actually smiled. "New blankets, new furniture, a whole new bed."
Sonya looked directly at John. "Arthur is just a bedroom makeover waiting to happen."
(Can you tell I'm having fun? Note to y'all: If it ain't fun, you shouldn't be doing it. Relax. Go with the flow. Laugh at yourself.)
yes I see you are having fun. Your characters are having and H&G moment.
Mod
... and finished. Luckily, it snowed today so I could edit my first draft before it goes to the boss (Amy) for her to edit before it goes to my agent and editor for them to pick at before ... I've told you about this drill before.
Why is it so long? I had a lot of subplots to solve in addition to the main plot. I think I tied 'em up in nice little ribbons by page 622 (double-spaced, 12-point type), because as I've said, Kensington doesn't do sequels ...
Drive safely out there. We had 4 inches of snow and some ice today, 5-8 more expected over the weekend. And this is Virginia.
Congrats JJ Murray. A new novel. In 56 days? Kaboom!That's fantastic.
Wish you the best with this one.
Another novel is in the works.
I have no clue what to call it. Kensington usually re-titles my books anyway, so for now we'll call it ... Hunk or Punk?? Hmm. She's Got Game? Maybe when it's in a somewhat finished state I'll let y'all have a go at it. Yeah. A titling contest.
And Kensington will change it anyway ...
This is the "mustard seed" of the idea: A woman goes on a reality show called "Hunk or Punk"--something like that--to find a husband.
I am putting all my ducks in a row before I begin the first sentence:
1) Mapping out the plot from beginning to end. You have to know your approximate destination before you get there or the "trip" can become a waste of time.
2) Sketching out my characters. 10 sketched so far. I'm sure I'll add more as I go.
3) Writing out the climax. Really. You know the formula by now--she weeds out the punks to find her hunk. Our hero has to survive the process, win her heart etc. to get her to pick him. I do plan to have much of the novel occur off camera so it won't read like a reality TV show. And sure, I'll make fun of the genre, too. It's my thang.
4) Researching reality TV. How do you apply? How do you get picked? What are the risks/rewards? Why do people audition for reality shows anyway? How much of a reality show is scripted? How much do producers of those shows affect the outcome? Do contestants often misrepresent themselves to get on the show--and then lie like dogs on the show to "win"?
5) Really fleshing out my two main characters so that I like him and love her.
Once I have these "ducks" lined up, I will write out the entire story (warts and all) to the annoyance of my students, family, and friends. It will consume me probably until Christmas. Then I will edit it for six months (or more) until sending it to my editor.
That's the plan, anyway.
Ain't writin' fun?