The Rory Gilmore Book Club discussion

I know some of you have already read Eat Pray Love by Elizabeth Gilbert. I'd love to discuss it with you, and eventually when other read it they could join in, too. Anyone up for it?

Haven't read it yet...but would like to!

Well, now you've done it for sure! I'm going to have to cave and throw this one into the books going camping bag! Which means I have to go BUY it in order to throw it into the books going camping bag -- but I'll just blame Michele - think that'll work? Probably not. I'll figure it out.

Too bad we don't live close enough to swap.

LOL - I'll take the blame, Dottie! It's well worth it... at least in this girl's humble opinion!

count me in...it's in my to-read pile =).

I just finished it yesterday-perfect timing! I had heard mixed things about it but I wound up really liking it.

I'm actually reading it at the moment and I'd love to discuss it.

"Eat, Pray, Love" was on my to-read pile for months. In fact, I pulled it out yesterday to do a sample site reading for a phone interview. (This was an expensive year. I need a 2nd job.) It rekindled my interest in the book, so I will have to move it up the queue.

I also have heard mixed things about this book but I really enjoy the author's writing so I fully intend to like it. She wrote a novel called "Stern Men" which has been been described as "a Jane Austen heroine in a lobster boat". I recommend it to anyone who enjoys Elizabeth Gilbert's writing.

Woo-hoo, Joanie! Yea, Gwynne! Get a move on, GraceAnne! (LOL!!)

The great thing for me was I'd not heard a thing. There is such a joy in reading a book without a lot of outside ideas, opinions, and voices buzzing around in your head needing to constantly be swatted away! I just saw it on the shelf one day when my friend was late to meet me at the cafe, so I grabbed it and read the introduction while waiting. I don't know if I took it home that day or another, but it didn't leave my mind since that moment.

The thing is, once I'd finished I went to the book page and was SHOCKED by the negative responses and criticisms.





***INDIA SPOILERS***





People that thought her spiritual experience was fake because she was getting paid, I have to wonder, don't they think if that were the case that she would have left the Ashram and gone to the other holy places and met the Dali Lama as planned? I mean it likely would have made for a far more interesting read.

How about those that thought that she was so self-centered? Wow. Totally never got that. I mean, if you are writing about a journey of self-discovery and healing, then wouldn't THAT be exactly what you'd be writing about? Sheesh. I just never got that feeling, but maybe I just get her - she's social and focuses outward most of the time. Focusing inward is far more difficult.

Then there was something said about how there was all this focus on men. I thought they were crazy. Dealing with her past relationships is part of the book, but beyond that she talks about relationships equally with men and women. I CAN NOT believe that some people thought she had an affair with Richard! Too absurd. In an Ashram. On a spiritual journey. In a year of celibacy. With Richard. Too bizarre.

The dumbest was someone ranting about "stream of conscious" writing. Yeah. Get a clue. So NOT what it is.

Okay, sorry... I just had to get that out. I'm so pleased that I hadn't heard/read ANY of that until after I'd read the book myself! Heck, I didn't even know it was an Oprah book! (Good thing, too, or I really think I mightn't have picked it up!)



***SPOILERS OVER***



So, we need to get Robbie and Dini in on this because I know they have read it. I'm really looking forward to some real discussions about it! Woo-hoo!

We could, so that if people are in the process of reading it, list spoilers for what section... that way that can participate as they read if they want. (I just went back and changed mine.)

So far, I have only peeked at a few pages but I thought that it was funny that she gave such a detailed explanation of what prayer beads were, as if they were so exotic. Aren't they just like rosary beads?

Michele--I know Deb is reading this right now. I have a lot of comments in the "Books I Want to Talk About" group. I really don't want to take away from this thread, at the same time, I don't want to repeat all of my comments--several are rather lengthy. If you wouldn't mind reading the comments there (then posting here if you'd like), I'd love to continue the discussion. Seems like it fizzled out a bit at the end.

GraceAnn -- my own answer would be -- well, yes -- and no. Certainly similar but not exactly replicating it either. Check online descriptions for comparisons would be my advice as the info varies and I tend to read widely and form my own idea of definition from a condensation of the reading.

GraceAnn--she says in the book that the prayer beads pre-dated Rosary beads. The idea was borrowed and adapted after some Christians came across them in their travels.

Count me in, Michele. I like the author's storytelling and her open-minded view on religion. Even my dad liked it! My review for the book is here (no spoilers):

http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...

I put it in as an entry on April's GoodReviews contest... I didn't win, but I'm glad I had the guts to put it out there cause now the contest has been canceled :(

That said, I'd like to comment on what Michele said:



***SPOILERS***

I totally get where you're coming from, especially the focus on men part. I never really got that impression while I was reading. Yes, she made a lot of male friends during the journey, but there were a lot of influential women as well: her friend in Italy, the little Indian girl, Wayan in Bali, etc. I'm wondering if people who interpret her relationships with the men that way can't really see any relationship with the opposite sex as platonic?

Oh and the book wasn't really an Oprah book club selection. She discussed it on her show but didn't select it for her book club cause it was already famous.

Robbie, I did read those comments. You can copy them here if you like... But I thought starting a conversation might lead to other things. With new people.

Hey Dini, thanks for the info on the Oprah thing. See, I just had no idea... I MAYBE see ten minutes of one of her shows in a year. LOL

I'm going to check out your review after dinner! So glad you are still up for chatting about it.

I hadn't read any reviews of the books but a few of my friends read it and said they felt that it stalled when she went to India. After reading it I was really suprised because I found it so interesting. I loved reading about the different meditations and just how she struggled.


I've heard people say that they think she was too needy, too high maintenance and maybe she was at the beginning but I also think she realized it and was trying to make changes. And trust me, if I were to publish some of my journal writing from some of the roughter times of my life I'd come across as pretty needy too. She was baring all, and that's not easy and it's certainly not pretty.


*Possible Spoilers*


As for the comments about her with men, the only thing I can think of is that she herself says she's always been needy when it came to men. She said she's always had a boyfriend since the time she was 15 and had never really been alone but again, that was something that she was trying to change. I hadn't read the speculation that she'd had an affair with Richard-that's ridiculous.

I read a reivew on goodreads where someone wrote that they were annoyed that she acted like her life was so hard when she had two houses etc. Clearly this person missed the point-that having stuff doesn't make a happy life and it's braver to leave that stuff behind and admit you're not happy than to just stay put.

***Possible India Spoilers***







My main speculation about Richard was that he probably had the hots for her. Anybody remember "When Harry met Sally"?

People who are annoyed, thinking "she doesn't have anything to be depressed about," don't understand the nature of depression.

**Possible India spoilers***







I enjoyed this section, but in a different way. I'm a bit like LG's friend who says something like, "I so wish I wanted to do that!" During my divorce recovery period, I did do a lot of praying for the first time, and a little spacing out while staring at a candle, but nothing really like Liz talks about. I'm sure the spiritual experiences she had are things you just have to do in order to understand. I admire her for trying to explain. I'll be interested to see what sort of processing of things she does in Indonesia.

One thing that touched me was the part about "soul-mates." Richard says, "People think a soul mate is your perfect fit, and that's what everone wants. But a true soul mate is a mirror, the person who shows you everything that's holding you back, the person who brings you to your own attention so you can change your life...they tear down your walls and smack you awake...they come into your life just to reveal another layer of yourself to you, and then they leave."

Personally, I think that, if I am to accept the idea of a soulmate, I think we're allowed more than one. Probably as many as we need.

Was Richard Liz's soulmate? Did he have the hots for her?

***Possible India Spoilers***








Okay, so here are other points of discussion. Do you think Liz really had those spiritual experiences, or was she just making them up for her book? Is there a psychological or psychiatric explanation that could explain what she experienced--if she did indeed experience it? Have any of you had similar experiences? How did she (she actually suggests maybe she didn't) distinguish being asleep from a spiritual experience? How would we? Is there any way I could have used the word experience more often in this paragraph?

Don't get me wrong. I am a person of faith, and I do have times when I feel I am more in God's presence than at other times. And, I appreciated and endorse the metaphor of many rivers leading to the same ocean. But there is a part of me that just isn't sure about these out-of-body kinds of experiences. And, as I said in my previous posting, I'm not sure that it is something I'd want to pursue.

Alas, I always need to fall back on the ideas that faith is called faith because we can't explain it. And that God's ways are not comprehensible to humans.

I did think it was neat to read about the non-stereotypical visitors to the Ashram.

Interesting point about Liz being preoccupied with male attention. I didn't pick that up personally. She did have several girlfriends that either visited her or she met on her travels. Pop psychology might suggest being preoccupied with male attention has something to do with wanting to make up for attention she didn't get from her father while growing up. Maybe it was from being celebate all that time? Or, maybe she just feels comfortable around men. Then there's the obvious that she had really never spent her adult life without a man at her side, so she was looking for someone to lean on in that way, whether or not she was aware of that herself. How much of it could have been due to the roles of women in the various societies? They may have been too busy to have free time to spend with her.



***Possible Indonesia Spoilers***




I'm not entirely sure why, but this was probably my least favorite of the three parts. Don't get me wrong, I liked it a lot. I enjoyed hearing her take on the different people she met and her description of the different cultures. It just seemed like it was a different "voice" compared to the other parts.

I sort of hoped this thing with Filipe would be a fling. If she had gone home, never seen him again, and still felt fine with herself, I would have felt better somehow.

I admit to feeling a little bit like it would be nice to escape to someplace like Bali for a while, like some of the ex-patriots that lived there, even though I haven't gotten into a lot of trouble or anything!

I kind of liked the medicine man's idea about what to do with arguments about religion--say "I agree with you" then go home and pray to who you want to. Except I wouldn't want to lie. Perhaps the 'smile and nod' would do :)

I tried to read this book, but I guess it's just not my style. I wanted to like it because of all the hype but sometimes I was bored.

Plus I love Oprah.. and that is where I found out about this book. She had the author on twice. One day was to discuss how people can experience the same thing without traveling all over the world and taking a year off of work. And other questions like that.

Honestly I just didn't get that vibe between Richard and Liz at all... it was a connection, but of friendship. Am I the only one who has experienced that wonderful level of platonic relationship? I don't think either one had the idea of anything else. Maybe it's the spiritual thing. I had loads of friends like that - really amazing connections - at church over the years.

I actually really want to pick up the book again. I've too much else I want to read, of course, but I think that's a really good sign. And you know what? I will do for comments... Although, I underlined so much I might as well read the whole thing again. LOL

It is good to hear so many positive comments about this book. We discussed it at my book group and half of the people liked it, while half did not. I was one of the people who did not like it. I thought it was so self-indulgent. I did not think the author was funny, and I was actually quite bored with her trip. I don't know what is wrong with me, (Maybe I was not in the right place when I read it) but I was annoyed with her the entire book. So much, that I committed the ultimate book no-no and stopped reading it with ten pages to go!

I did enjoy the insight she provided about the countries she visited. I wanted more of that. Who cares about her, tell me about the people! There were some good parts in that regards, like when she is discussing the medicine man and his services to the people. Also, her description of physical settings of each country was very detailed.

I agree that I didn't get that vibe between her and Richard either. I also didn't think that Richard "wanted" her. I think it was actually good for her to have some male friends where the relationship was strictly platonic. Joanie, I found it interesting that your quote from the book was actually something that Richard said vs. something that she created!

Overall I didn't like the book. I found some beautiful gems:
"I want God to play in my bloodstream the way sunlight amuses itself on the water"

However, I found there was a lot of drivle in between those gems. I borrowed the book from the library. I think I may one day buy a copy, because it was all I could do to resist underlining the bits that I liked. When Gilbert (how does that saying go) is good she is very, very good, but when it she is bad.... Also I think I would like to read it again in a few years and give it another chance.

I think part of the problem was all the great reviews. Funny, I didn't come across the so-so ones until after I had trudged through it.

While I agree that "things" can't buy you happiness, I don't think the reviewer who mentioned Gilbert having 2 houses and too bad about not being happy was referring to that. I am the mother of 3, I work full time including a 1+ hour commute each way. Oh to have the luxury of being able to spend a year travelling for my job and myself. I love my children, my life, my job (most days:) and maybe there is a twinge of jealously, I'll admit to that. But I have made my choices and the things that haven't worked out the way I planned I work around. My job doesn't give me the option of not commuting, we can't afford a house where I work, so I sacrifice my time on the road so my children can have a yard to play in. I don't remember, and maybe I missed it, but I don't remember her acknowledging (or appreciating)that she was lucky to have the many opportunities that she had. She works for them yes. She suffers for them yes. She has had to make sacrifices, YES. But, that's life. I think what bothered me is that I (try to) appreciate the things I have, even if they aren't necessarily what I wanted or planned for, I work with what I've got. Am I settling? I don't think so. I am just working at working with what I have. Some days I'm better at it than others, usually the days I get a full 7 mins in the shower without someone knocking on the door :)

Wow, now I sound like I'm whining...sorry :o/

Maybe it's because I'm someone who appreciates the journey. I seek the journey. And I also appreciate hearing about someone coming out the other side more complete and whole than they started out. Rising from the ashes kind of growth is wonderful to read about.

With all these negative reactions, I just keep thinking how reading my posts that include stories must annoy and bore you naysayers because my style and even some of my experience is so very similar.

You know what, no matter what she owns now - or for that matter what she owned then - it does not mean she was not in crisis and that this journey did not hold meaning. I think she did a good job of showing her appreciation even for her ex-husband. A person embarking on a spiritual journey who does not appreciate all she does have and has been given isn't going to get far.

I'm in a really terrible place in my life right now. If this is a phoenix thing, I'm so sick of the pain from burning and the smell, taste and feel of the ash. Saying that does not make me less appreciative of the safe place that has been provided for me during this process nor of the people who come along and stop to wash the ash from my eyes.

Suzanne, you sacrifice for what is important to you. We all do. If living a year abroad was important enough to you, you'd find a way and sacrifice for it. But your choice was and continues to be your children and they are your priority (rightly so). Do not, however, begrudge those of us who choose such a path.

I sincerely wanted many children most of my life, but never found a life-partner. Yours may not be an easy road, but you have the joy of your children (I'm not discounting the difficulty of that). I'm assuming that you, at least for a time, have/had the joy of a partner. I guess I'm just saying don't assume because someone chooses something enviable like traveling or living abroad as a priority that it is an easy path or even an easy choice (or for that matter even their first choice). Nor that it is all wonderment and fun-filled. It's still life, with all that it entails.

Also, if a person desires something different from the crowd, if her "American Dream" is not in any way average, she is often shunned. Believe me, I know. We atypical people have to battle much harder because we also have to swim against public opinion and judgment born of lack of understanding and resentment and sometimes jealousy and even malice. Thick skins do not come easy for some of us. This, however, makes our path that much more rewarding and fulfilling. I'm NOT saying that pursuing the typical "American Dream" does not take sacrifice nor that it is easy. But there is an element of acceptance and appreciation and camaraderie that can strengthen and bolster the spirit which the atypical dreamers will never receive or feel.

I'm not trying to spout a diatribe here or condemn any other situation or position or choices in life. My character is first and foremost about exploring and understanding and embracing. Where as with others, their characters are most of all nesting and loving or achieving and succeeding. I think that diversity is wonderful! I say go for your dreams! I'm all for it! I'll support you wholeheartedly! But please don't negate mine because they are not yours or are not in the more accepted veins of dreaming (or because they were once yours, but you chose to walk away from them in favor of other dreams).

I know this veered from direct book discussion, and for those of you that haven't been around very long it might seem out there. But one of the great beauties of books is the discussions they ignite - and we love that stuff around here!

I just want to repeat what I said briefly earlier--many people just do not understand the nature of depression. There are people who "have it all" who get depressed. There are people who go through unbelievable trauma (holocaust, severe floods, severe burns, whatever) who don't get depressed. I will often see people with depression in the office who will say things like "I shouldn't feel depressed, so-and-so is going through such-and-such, and that is so much worse." I then tell them that someone else's suffering doesn't make [my patient's] suffering decrease. When they're suffering, they're suffering.

I like the point you made, Michele, about people's choices. So many people forget about all of their choices. I had a high school teacher that made a big deal out of that, and I'm glad he did. For example, if someone said, "I can't come to class tomorrow, because I have a dentist appointment," he would say, "no, you're choosing to go to the dentist instead of coming to class." He wasn't making a judgement about the choice. Just pointing out that it was a choice.

On a lighter note, Michele, I have had a number of platonic relationships with men, but they mostly agree with Harry from "When Harry Met Sallie" that they pretty much want to "nail" their platonic friends. ;) As for Richard, I could go either way about his attraction to [the author]. Regardless, I think they are soulmates.

That was such an interesting idea he had about soulmates. I like it, I get it, but it's also a little bit sad.

As for me, I'd really, really like to experience being in love at least once in my life - whether or not it's a lasting or a soulmate situation. (This is as opposed to loving and adoring - it's the IN love that I've missed out on.)

I agree that the idea on soulmates was a bit sad -- it is a bit different from what is generally given or implied in the definition of the term -- but I see what he way saying, I GET that and it still leaves a sad tinge to recognize that. I can't wait to get my hands on this book. Maybe Monday which is accumulating errands which must be run!

"Joanie, I found it interesting that your quote from the book was actually something that Richard said vs. something that she created!"

I don't remember my quote-what did I say? God, I'm losing it!

Okay, I haven't quite finished the book yet, I'm in the middle of Indonesia (now where did I put my bug spray?) My reaction to this book so far has been, "Yeah. What she said." I've never before read or heard anyone speak about spirituality, God, the universe and everything that comes so close to my own experiences and feelings. Lord knows I'm not an inarticulate person, but I am almost awed by the way Gilbert expresses spiritual experiences, both large and small, that I have never been able to verbalize. I completely believe that her spiritual experiences were real and not made up because I've had some of them, maybe not in exactly the same way, but close enough to recognize. Most of you know by now that I've declared a pretty stringent moratorium on buying books, but I actually want to buy two copies of this book, one nice hardback, and a paperback I can highlight and underline and annotate. I love her prayer journal, because that's the way I feel I communicate with God, with an inner voice that is me, but not quite, or not just, me. I can't even pull any quotes here because whole chapters are my favorite quotes.

Robbie - I'm fading right now after writing this, but later I want to check out your comments on "Books I Want to Talk About." I think this book would make for a great Adult Sunday School class this year.

Deb: I know Beth S. read it and loved it. I'll let you suggest the book for Sunday School--that way you can lead the discussion ;) I'm already procrastinating on a book I suggested (but haven't read yet.)

Re: message 25: by whichwaydidshego?

I'm at a loss for words besides thanking you for the beautiful post.

Isabelle, that means a lot. I appreciate that very much. Thank you as well.

What's going on over here in this thread I haven't been reading? O.K....must get this book!

Michelle I had sort of skimmed things before but just wanted to come back and say just how impressed I am with your ability to put your thoughts into words so artfully. I also wanted to say that I don't think there are any of us here who have found your (or anyone else's for that matter) side stories "annoying." What fun would this group be if no one ever shared personal information/stories? I hope no one ever feels the need or desire to stop sharing, relating personal stuff to books makes them so much more interesting.

As for the soulmate thing-I had heard this idea of soulmates before when reading Carlos Castaneda in college. He (well his teacher Don Juan really) says that soulmates aren't for sex or romantic love-they're to teach us and challenge us to rise to the next level of understanding and having an intimate relationship with them just saps knowledge and power. It's a different concept but interesting and it allows for someone to have more than one soulmate in their life which is sort of hopeful. I don't that concept will ever replace the idea of soulmate as romantic partner though, it's too ingrained in people.

Maybe that's where Richard heard it, too.

You're probably right Robbie, or from some other spiritual teacher who followed the same teachings as Castenaeda.

Michelle - I want to echo Joanie's sentiments. I know that this particular point in your life's journey is painful and not what you wanted or expected in life. And from our brief acquaintance on -line, I know you deserve much better. I also know that it is the difficult parts of our lives that end up teaching us the most. I so admire your grace and ability to reach out and connect with others, even though you are in emotional pain and turmoil. I look forward to, and have every confidence in, your rising, little phoenix.

This book didn't get picked up prior to the camping and travel trip so today when Jim called to say he was going to go to Costco and some other stuff on the way home, I told him to pick up a copy as it would be cheaper at Costco. Well, he hemmed and hawed around but he did bring a copy home for me so now i'm starting it along with a couple others I've had around here for eons waiting for an opportune time to be read -- opportune or not, I've put them at the top of the stack (figuratively speaking) and off I go.

I'll be back once I get a reasonable way into this!

And, Michele, you are definitely not alone in your encounters with those types of soulmates. I've had a couple -- maybe more -- that would classify using your definition.

I am going to start this book tonight. I am excited to read it. It was recomended by a good friend of mine and she usually is on the nail about books.

Joanie and Deborah... wow. THANK YOU SO MUCH. You two (and Isabelle) can't know how much I value your praise and encouragement. At any time such word are precious, but at THIS time, they are life-giving. Thankyou-thankyou-thankyou.

And, YEA! More people are going to read it! Can't wait to keep discussing it and hearing their unique insights!

I wanted to share this here as it came to mind while reading the India chapters -- which I'm about halfway through by now. I went online looking for info on the patterns of labyrinths to get my mind straight on which was which, etc. and in the process found this animated labyrinth which I've placed on one of my tabs where I can always click on it and run it while I sit quietly and gather myself. Her early experiences with the blue electricity set me to thinking about this "centering" which stems from Eastern thought but has become a permanent part of many other self-help, spiritual plans or programs. My own leaning is toward labyrinths -- they seem to call to me and I've begun to think of eventually laying out some replica around or as part of wherever I settle in retirement.

Hope some of you like/enjoy this.

http://www.labyrinthonline.com/flash/...

There are some people at my church (and Deb's) that are really into labyrinths. One of the other churches in our town actually has one in the basement, I think (East Liberty Pres, Deb.) I haven't tried it, but I know a lot of people find it a very spiritual experience.

I don't understand the concept of labyrinths. To me I just instantly solve it with my brain, like a puzzle. Because that's what I'm really good at, problem solving. Maybe you could briefly explain it, Dottie?

It makes me think of a brain.

And Harry Potter. Hee!

Gah! The butterfly was disconcerting because I just now finished a book where a butterfly was significant. Freaking me out!

Sorry, I keep commenting. I think I'm über-hyper from finishing said book and not being invested. That nervous energy of the disconnect and the temporizing before the mental normalization. Plus the mad-desire to find a new one quick! LOL

I *think* it's often a large path that you walk. There are sometimes places where you are supposed to stop and pray. It's more about the process than getting to the end. It's not a puzzle--there is only one path to follow. It winds and turns, but there are no forks in the road.

The labyrinth is used as a tool for prayer and meditation as Robbie says, Michele. And there is a difference between a labyrinth and a maze. Again, as Robbie said, there is usually only one way in and one way out with points at which some time is spent either in prayer or meditation. There are some labyrinths however which have multiple circuits, as they are called. Some have combinations of longer and shorter circuits within them. But each circuit, I believe, is simply a contained smaller labyrinth with one path in and the same path returns you to the start point.

I am investigating the small ones available with a stylus but have not yet found one I like enough to purchase -- I want to use it in my morning and evening quiet time reading as a means of meditating on what I've read before writing in my journal. What really got me started on labyrinths were mazes which began to fascinate me after reading a book of course in which they were almost one of the characters. Then I visited Chartres cathedral and that was it. I was off and reading and researching and have been interested ever since.

I am SO relating to her unquiet mind thing but am wondering how well I would do sitting quietly in one position meditating without having done something which would get my aches and pains under my control better. I've thought of yoga but never really taken any official classes to learn it -- if we had been ready to simply retire and stay put in TX our local senior center there had a class geared to just my trouble -- to limber up and ease the pains seniors often develop in joints but taking into consideration the medical/physical conditions somewhat... that stretching and yet not overreaching approach is what I need these days.

And that butterfly distracts me, too, Michele, so it may not be due to your state at the moment. Heh -- I was going to add it probably wasn't tied to the butterfly in your reading either -- but then maybe it could be there to pull you into investigating and even utilizing labyrinths -- hee-hee.

And another thing -- this labyrinth design is patterned after a labyrinth which is in a small wood near or in Dalby, England. If you go looking online there is a lot of info on many labyrinths. I have a brooch with this pattern on it and therefore I settled on this one. I love the Chartres one as well.

Also -- this online labyrinth in the link is tied to the chakras which is why the ittle dot changes color as it goes along the path -- the point is to meditate on each area while the dot is the appropriate color. I sometimes try to concentrate on the areas but usually I simply meditate on my own while the dot completes the half circuit either into or out of the labyrinth.

This page allows you to read the site where I found the labyrinth. I have no connection to this other than having found it online and read it a bit and started using this one. I would recommend reading beyond the info here if you are at all curious.

http://www.labyrinthonline.com/

I say, tongue-in-cheek, you might have some great spiritual experiences, Dottie, with some heavy pain-killers in your system before the sitting-still type of meditation!

As I've stated in other EPL threads, I think some of this stuff is just on a different spiritual plane from mine. I can meditate a little while staring at a candle or other focal point, or just before going to sleep. I can also get a lot from music. But, I just have no desire, even, to take the path taken by Gilbert. It occasionally makes me feel inadequate, somehow.