The History Book Club discussion

Hello Everyone,

This begins the ninth week's reading in our new Presidential Series group discussion.

The complete table of contents is as follows:

Table of Contents

Preface p.13

ONE: The Early Years p.21
TWO: Mexico p.34
THREE: Resignation p.70
FOUR: War p.98
FIVE: "Unconditional Surrender" p.133
SIX: Shiloh p.167
SEVEN: Vicksburg p.206
EIGHT: Chattanooga p. 258
NINE: General in Chief p. 284
TEN: The Wilderness p. 313
ELEVEN: Grant and Lee p. 340
TWELVE: Appomattox p. 369
THIRTEEN: Reconstruction p. 408
FOURTEEN: Let Us Have Peace p. 431
FIFTEEN: Grant in the White House p. 458
SIXTEEN: Diplomacy p. 491
SEVENTEEN: Great White Father p. 516
EIGHTEEN: Reconstruction Revisited p. 542
NINETEEN: The Gilded Age p. 573
TWENTY: Taps p. 606

Notes p. 629
Bibliography p. 707
Acknowledgments p. 747
Index p. 427

Syllabus

Week One - October 4th - October 10th -> Preface, Chapter ONE, and Chapter TWO p. 13 - 69
PREFACE, ONE - The Early Years, and TWO - Mexico

Week Two - October 11th - October 17th -> Chapter THREE and FOUR. p. 70 -132
THREE - Resignation and FOUR - War

Week Three - October 18th - October 24th -> Chapter FIVE and SIX p. 133 - 205
FIVE - "Unconditional Surrender" and SIX - Shiloh

Week Four - October 25th - October 31st -> Chapter SEVEN p. 206 - 257
Chapter SEVEN - Vicksburg

Week Five - November 1st - November 7th -> Chapters EIGHT and NINE p. 258 - 312
EIGHT - Chattanooga and NINE - General in Chief

Week Six - November 8th - November 14th -> Chapters TEN and ELEVEN p. 313 - 368
TEN - The Wilderness and ELEVEN - Grant and Lee

Week Seven - November 15th - November 21st -> Chapter TWELVE p. 369 - 407
TWELVE - Appomattox

Week Eight - November 22nd - November 28th ->
Chapter THIRTEEN and FOURTEEN p. 408 - 457
THIRTEEN - Reconstruction and FOURTEEN - Les Us Have Peace

Week Nine - November 29th - December 5th ->
FIFTEEN - Grant in the White House and SIXTEEN - Diplomacy p. 458 - 515

Week Ten - December 6th - December 12th - > Chapter SEVENTEEN and EIGHTEEN p. 516 - 572
SEVENTEEN - Great White Father and EIGHTEEN - Reconstruction Revisited

Week Eleven - December 13th - December 19th - > Chapter NINETEEN and TWENTY p. 573 - 628
NINETEEN -The Gilded Age and TWENTY - Taps

The assignment for this week includes the following segments/pages:

Week Nine - November 29th - December 5th ->
FIFTEEN - Grant in the White House and SIXTEEN - Diplomacy p. 458 - 515


We look forward to your participation; but remember this is a non spoiler thread.

We will open up threads for each week's reading. Please make sure to post in the particular thread dedicated to those specific chapters and page numbers to avoid spoilers.

This book was kicked off on October 4th. This will be the ninth week's assignment for this book.

We look forward to your participation. Amazon, Barnes and Noble and other noted on line booksellers do have copies of the book and shipment can be expedited. The book can also be obtained easily at your local library, or on your Kindle.

A special welcome to those who will be newcomers to this discussion and thank you to those who have actively contributed on the previous Presidential Series selection. We are glad to have you all.

~Bentley

TO ALWAYS SEE ALL WEEKS' THREADS SELECT VIEW ALL

Jean Edward Smith

Note: Please note that a member of Bryan's immediate family has taken ill while on holiday and Bryan will not be available at home to post the opening summary until mid week. For those of you catching up; I am sure that this will give some an opportunity to catch up and for those of you who are ahead, please feel free to post and kick off this thread. Just realize that you may not hear back from Bryan until mid week. Bryan will post the opening summaries and introductory questions when he arrives home; his notes are not with him.

Chapter 15 opens with a big win by Grant for president. He did not campaign, but he did take a tour of western forts with Sheridan and Sherman. Like at war, Grant worked by himself, not consulting with his Republicans on developing a cabinet. He focused more on personality than political clout; the question on how well can he work with each cabinet member. There were a few "hiccups" during the nomination process. His treasury choice, Alexander Stewart, is running a business which is illegal, and Elihu Washburne only wants to be Secretary of State for a short time before getting the post of Ambassador to France. His new choices George Boutwell and Hamilton Fish get in. Grant's former war aids are also brought in to be Grant's secretaries, and we see the social scene taken up a notch with his two daughters and Julia being First Lady. (She also refurbishes the White House).

Sherman and Grant have a falling out. Grant and Sherman want the army bureau chiefs to move back to the commander in chief's office rather than the Secretary of war. However, the chiefs and Congress do not like this and Grant ends up reversing himself. It taints their relationship as Grant did not keep his word.

Most of the chapter covers the attempt to corner the gold market by Jay Gould and Jim Fisk. Gould and Fisk try to gain administration influence to keep gold prices high, hold off on a government auction of gold, then sell before the price drops. They get Grant's brother-in-law, Abel Corbin, sold on the idea of the importance of having a high gold price, and even set up an account for him. It didn't work. Although Fisk and Gould talk to Grant about the importance of the high price of gold on the economy, Grant told Boutwell to hold the auction. On September 24, 1869 ("Black Friday") Grant orders $4 million of gold to be auctioned at a time gold is at a high price as Gould and Fisk keep buying gold. The gold crash devastates the economy.

Chapter 16 covers the diplomatic side of things. Fish turns out to be one of the ablest Secretary of States. Grant and Fish like each other and work well together. Two big events are Cuba and Dominican Republic. A Cuban insurrection against Spain begins in 1868. Public opinion wants Spain out, but Fish is not interested in U.S. intervention. Grant supports Fish and declares he will not intervene but mediate the issue between Cuba and Spain. Grant effectively argues to Congress that the rebels are no shape to rule Cuba.

The other issue is whether to annex the Dominican Republic. Grant sends his aide, Orville Babcock, to the area to find out if the country wants to be part of the U.S. He comes back and says it would be approved by the locals. However, Grant must face Senator Charles Sumner, who proves to be a real obstacle to Grant. Grant visits Sumner about the annexation treaty and Sumner says he will study it. Well, he ends up killing it in the Senate even as Grant tries to work with other Senators to pass it.

However, the chapter ends with the Treaty of Washington, one of the great diplomatic treaties between the U.S. and Britain. It settles the outstanding issues between the country (such as fishing rights and navigation), and sends the Alabama claims into successful arbitration.

We see Grant delving into high stakes politics. What are your impressions so far? It is much different than war. Do you think his skills transfer successfully or unsuccessfully?

I think it is amazing that a president did not have to campaign to win an election. Bring back the good ole days (smile).

Strategy at war could be applied to the world of politics I imagine; but then again...with politics you have to also take into account more of your personal reputation versus trying to win at all costs a battle to save the lives of your men or to save your country.

I don't think that an election has the same consequences as a life or death situation. But there are leadership skills that are of course tranferable.

I agree, Bentley. Smith wrote something quite good on this issue. For a president, you need to compromise and alliances change, issues and resentment linger on after the event, and a lot of back-biting. The back-biting can hold true in waging war, but the other things I think Grant is not as adept in. Grant was no fan of politics in waging a war, which might prove to be a problem as he becomes president.

Bentley wrote: "I think it is amazing that a president did not have to campaign to win an election. Bring back the good ole days (smile).

It was seen as low to actually run for president. Campaigning was frowned upon. You wrote a position speech to be published in the papers and you were done. You begin to have a front-porch campaign with James Garfield and others a little later on.

Bryan wrote: "I agree, Bentley. Smith wrote something quite good on this issue. For a president, you need to compromise and alliances change, issues and resentment linger on after the event, and a lot of back-..."

Yes, if he does not like politics in the military, he would certainly hate it while trying to run a country.

Bryan wrote: "Bentley wrote: "I think it is amazing that a president did not have to campaign to win an election. Bring back the good ole days (smile).

It was seen as low to actually run for president. Campai..."

I agree with all of the above.

Black Friday must have been something else. Within minutes, people lost their fortunes, railway stocks plummeted, and business and farmers were hit very hard.

I wonder if Grant knew what the repercussions were. I wonder if Boutwell did, too? What does this mean in respect to Grant's decision making?

The presentation of the gold manipulation of Gould and Fisk is very interesting and I find it interesting that the attitude of accepting unearned wealth was acceptable to so many.

In truth the acceptance of gifts of value that Grant personally accepted, the buying of his home for an inflated price, trips at the expense of wealthy individuals, entertainment etc. would today be totally unacceptable in our politics.

So I would say that Smith, who frequently makes judgments that Grant did this or that well, fails to note, as I read the text, that the association that Grant undertook with Corbin, Gould and Fisk and his lack of denial to them that he would not be influenced was as much the cause of the Black Friday of Sept 24 as the actions of Gould and Fisk etc. Grant’s desire of a blow, delivered by Boutwell, to devastate the manipulators (so it seems to me) ignored the effect this activity would have on the overall market. So I would put primary responsibility for the Gold Crash, and the domestic economic suffering that followed for the county, at the feet of Grant for not having defused the situation months before. This is not that he was bad but that he did not act in the most judicious fashion and therefore thousands of people suffered.

The fact that Grant however used delegation as a management method, different from the cabinet meetings we say with Lincoln (if we read Team of Rivals)
Team of Rivals: The Political Genius of Abraham LincolnDoris Kearns Goodwin


is to say that he did move Presidential style to a new arena. The older method used with the Cabinet members taking so much activity, beyond even their personal arena, may be part of the reason that the Senate viewed them as a part of the administration over which they might be entitled to control as they had approved them.

I also found that there was little mention of the scandals that Grant’s administration faced. I think that maybe Jean Edward Smith may soon present Grant for sainthood as he seems to never present Grant as not having a reasonable reason – justifiable for overlooking or passing over Grant’s foibles.

I checked my old Encyclopedia Britannica reading the entry on Grant and scandals were certainly mentioned a notable part of the Grant years in the White House. I had, a few years ago, read a biography of Grant by Josiah Bunting III called Ulysses S. Grant
Ulysses S. Grant: The American Presidents Series
Josiah Bunting



(part of the American Presidents series published by Times Books – not very long but a series to give a short readable I think biography of all the presidents. He actually has a chapter called Scandals – four of which were laid at the feet of the administration or members of it, or at Grant’s feet for signing bills without considering all the ramifications – four were
The Sanborn Contracts, The Back Pay Grab, The Indian Trading Scandal & the Whiskey Ring – and it was a short book.

The diplomatic accomplishments seemed to solid - except that Grant failed to win his struggles to gain the Dominican Republic and failed to establish peace in Cuba. The Washington Treaty especially seems to have established the US as a noteworthy world player just a century after our revolution and the Treaty was effectively with the British our ex- owners so to say.

I think that Grant failed to properly handle and get around Sumner but who knows if he ever would have been able to accomplish that.

Thanks, Vince. Just some housekeeping, don't forget to cite the book with a cover and author with a picture when you do:

Doris Kearns Goodwin

Josiah Bunting

I think you have a valid point in that Smith might gloss over the scandals. He does mention them, however, and I think he is trying to argue, because of his administrative style and his personality that led to these appointments, he shouldn't be totally to blame. He had bad people around him. (However, a president usually is the one responsible.) I think it is a delicate balance and Smith puts his book more on pro-Grant side.

I agree that Grant should have acted sooner on the gold scheme. He figured it out and he met with Fisk and Gould, but didn't do enough. (Boutwell did go after the 10th National Bank but that is a slow process to audit a bank.)

I do keep thinking about the fact he did not understand what his action on the gold policy would do. Maybe he thought, as in battle, I think of the final ends of crushing Fisk and Gould's scheme and accept the devastating effects.

Thank you Bryan for adding the reminder for Vince and helping him.

I thouhgt I did

I guess I just got the links

will see how we do next time