Indian Readers discussion

I thougt it would be a nice thing if we can speak about our cultures; the one in which we are grown and the one we desire to know better.
Sometimes we idealize countries and the only things we know are not true or restricted to the books we have read or the films we have seen.
To start this discussion I quote here the comment of Aditya in the other topic so I can start to know better India.

Hi Dely, it's great to have you here. Interesting reasons you got to join this group, you are first of the kind and you are welcome.
I hope this "experiment" will have success and that my intrusion will not be troublesome but my intentions are good (I come in peace!).

You are free to start discussions and ask questions that are harmless and might enlighten you. Hinduism is but one religion in India. Though its in the majority, India is truly defined by its mix of religions, cultures, languages, races etc. In this small group of 460, we have people from different religions, regions, and languages.
I know hinduism is composed by many different cultures and traditions very similar but with some differences but I think every tradition accepts the others and they live together peacefully. I don't think in India exist extremists because in my opinion all the minority religions that are part of hinduism are very peacefully. Is this true? When I think India the first thing that comes me to mind is Gandhi and ahimsa. Ahimsa is part of every religious tradition in India? It should be also the foundation of every religion but at the end there is often hate between the different religions. I was grown in a catholic family and in a catholic country and unfortunately there is a lot of violence and supremacy of the Church and it's because of this that I don't like very much my religion.
The official language in India is english, it is true? But when you are at home you speak the language of the region you leave?

And all the question and answer sessions and books about India will just give you so much information that at the end of the day you got to experience it to know it. Nonetheless do go ahead and ask whatever it is that you want to, we are humbled to have you here :-)
I have read only one book of an indian writer; it is Vikram Chandra but I don't know the original title (the book talks about a guy who must tell stories otherwise Yama will take him). I have read a couple of Upanishad, the Bhagavad Gita (I have liked it very much) and some books about yoga (Patanjali is very very difficult). Like you see these are all books that talk about spirituality and not "real" life. Perhaps it is because of these that I think that everybody in India practice yoga and has a spiritual life because I think that it is part of your life. Is it so? Are all the indians very religious? Do you go always to the temple to pray or for your feasts? Also young people make it? Here it isn't so, in the church go many old people and the young go less, perhaps only for Christmas or neither for it.
Are there still some sadu in India? I have always read about them and so I am curious to know if they yet exist.
I have also heard in a documentary that in India young people prefer that the parents organize marriages and that they find the right partner for their son or daughter and young people accept this because they say that it is dangerous to search alone because it is easier that they choose wrong and so they prefer parents do it. Is it really so?

Coming to Italy, my connection with Italy is through my FIAT Palio that i bought an year ago. Its one amazing car that has got a soul, there are so many fans for this car, we have a yahoo group for palio users in India and we simply worship Palio and FIAT. No other Indian, Asian or American car manufacturer comes closer to making such beasts!
I have never driven a Fiat, I don't like them! I have always had french cars: renault and now peugeot.
And the second connection is through my reading of Godfather and its sequels. I understand almost all Godfather books are set in America but i remember one of them is set in Italy where the son of the original Don gets to spend a few days. That's about it.
I have seen the movie and I live in north Italy, here there aren't "godfathers" :)

I have written really very much and I hope that my english is comprehensibile. I hope it can born a nice discussion in order to know better each other country.

Thanks Dely, for your comprehensive view of Italy. I am a Hindu, and I feel that Hinduism is a very accomodating religion. We never have to pray or go to temple if we don't feel like it. There are no rigid rules or regulations (atleast in this modern era). We are free to change our beliefs/religions. There is no strict rule saying we should do this or that. I have been to church, Buddhist and Jain temples and have been able to pray with the same fervor I pray in Hindu temples.
And yes, mine was an arranged marriage and I am quite contended, though many youngsters nowadays are choosing their mates themselves (which I feel is a very good thing).
Sadus are there, but I dont know whether all of them are pure at heart or not as many tricksters have found out that donning the role of a Sadhu earns them free money and gifts and other comforts of life. There is corruption in India, and it is said that we Indians are not at all conscious about punctuality and keeping time, though I feel the younger generation is hard at work hoping to change this concept.
One thing I have heard many people say is that Indians are very hospitable. Most of us love having guests and most households will not let you leave without having a big, delicious meal, even if you are only on a casual visit

Hey Dely, Welcome!!
Speaking of connections between the two countries, there is a strong political reason. One of the most influential and powerful person in this country is of Italian descent.

Sujaritha wrote: "Hey Dely, Welcome!!
Speaking of connections between the two countries, there is a strong political reason. One of the most influential and powerful person in this country is of Italian descent."
I hope they are doing good their job and that they don't cut a poor figure for whole Italy!

@Smitha
I am a Hindu, and I feel that Hinduism is a very accomodating religion.
I think you are the only who do this and the other religions should only learn from you. I see here in Italy that many people go in the church only for habit or only for festivities but the most of them they don't do it with a pure heart. The most catholics I have met don't practise what they preache and they are nearly "racists" and lay the blame with the ones who doesn't go or with people of other religions. My parents do not know that I practise yoga and that I sometimes go to the ashram, they would not accept it, they would be anxious for me even if they don't know anything about hinduism. For the most of the catholics the other religions are wrong. I think it is a fault of the Church and of course of the ignorance of many people.

And yes, mine was an arranged marriage and I am quite contended
I have seen in your profile that you are only nineteen! Are you married since a long time? If I don't go wrong parents arrange marriages with the help of pandits and these one make a lot of astrological calculations in order to know who must marry who. Is this true? Because here in Italy, chiefly in south Italy, a lot of years ago (now nobody does it) it was common to arrange marriages but perhaps only because the parents were friends or for other futile reasons and they were nearly never happy marriages.

Sadus are there, but I dont know whether all of them are pure at heart or not as many tricksters have found out that donning the role of a Sadhu earns them free money and gifts and other comforts of life. There is corruption in India
Corruption in India? But i thought that everyone respected "satya", that this is part of you and your culture. There are many false "holy" people also in Italy and they earn their living swindleling poor people who are sick or full of problems or also ignorant (a priest "touched" young girls and he said it was necessary because they were possessed by evil and parents believed him!).

One thing I have heard many people say is that Indians are very hospitable.
I think it is true because when I went to the ashram indians were very hospital and they accepted me and the others europeans very good. They aren't closed in their comunity like catholics do.

I have seen in your profile that you are only nineteen! Are you married since a long time?
Hi Dely,
I am not nineteen, I am 37. I have been married for past 12 years. Arranged marriage can be quite a headache, especially for females - many families insist that the horoscope of bride and groom match and till a few years back dowry system was prevalent in India, where the female's family had to pay a lot of money and valuables to the male's family. Fortunately nowadays it is slowly being abolished as most females are educated and self-sufficient.Moreover, the number of love marriages and marriages after dating are on the rise. Many arranged marriages work fine (mine is a prime example), but in some cases the spouses are not compatible at all. All people and religions have their ups and downs, I feel finally who we are at heart counts a lot towards the end. If we are basically true to ourselves and others, and have a modicum of conscience we can survive in any religion / cast / society.

Smitha, do checkout ur profile, y does it say 19???

Hey Dely, great to c u here along with ur list of Qs!!

Religion: Feeling good that u liked Hinduism even though am a self proclaimed atheist. I echo with Smitha's opinions about the religion in general. But i think one can't/shudn't compare one religion with the others. None of us is wise enough to go about doing research in each one of them and pass a judgment as to wats the best out there. Am sure it's the followers and their interpretations that matter, not the religion itself. Each religion can be interpreted by diff persons in diff ways suiting their own whims and fancies. It's up to the individual to fulfill their own role to the best. Am sure there are many who are satisfied and follow Christianity happily without any complaints or harming others. U may find a lot of Europeans/Christians not being very open or attending church just for the sake of it, but it's more a trait of the individuals not their religion. There are ample number of Hindus who do the same wrt temples.

The temples are thronged with ppl of all ages, but majority of them are with those of unfulfilled wishes: someone who wants a US visa, someone who needs a better job, someone who wants his near one's health to improve, someone who wants to pass in his exams inspite of returning a blank paper to the examiner, someone who wants the most beautiful girl in the world as their bride and some even go there only to chose a beautiful bride among the religious types! Most of the ppl above mentioned are men, but among the young, its the women who visit temples more frequently than the men!

Marriage: As Smitha said there are both kinds of marriages happening here. Arranged marriages work fine when operated with reasonable boundaries. But more often than not, the boundaries are so restricted dat they end up choking those within: the wife and husband! The culture is slowly changing as Smitha said, and i hope its for the better!

Corruption is rampant in India, it ranks along side some of the most corrupt nations. Truth/non-violence are words of a lost generation of India. Now it's the modern India out here, ppl are as passionate as anyone in the world. Passions of diff kind that end up making our capital city as the 'rape capital' of India, passions that turn out some of the top billionaires in the world, passions that churn out brilliant scientists only to be gobbled up by NASA and the likes, passions that force us to lie, bribe, murder, love, respect and sacrifice. It's a mixed bag here! And all these hav got nothing to do with the Hinduism or any other religion for that matter.

As for Sadhus, u will find those 'touching' types here in great numbers esp the remote villages. For the real Sadhus, mayb u have to go towards the Himalayas, but i doubt none of us ever think abt them.

The last thing i would like to say is India is different and Hinduism is different. It is India because of it's diff religions/flavors. If it's Hinduism alone, i'd shudder to even think of living here :-)

Aditya wrote: "Smitha, do checkout ur profile, y does it say 19???

Hi Aditya, back from your exile? The number 19 is next to my name, but it is some sort of area code (as much as I have come to understand) Anyway I dont mind being nineteen again :-)

Thanks for the answers.
It was not my intention to compare religions; I spoke about catholicism in order to make better understand how I was grown and why I took a distance from my religion. I think it like you both, it is not the religion to be good or bad but how the people live it and how they explain it. I think religions have many points of contact and many similar values but unfortunately there are a lot of people who think their religion is the best one, this is the error.
I thought that India was one of the only countries where people follow still the worths of their religion in a good way and I am sorry to read that there are corruption and many other negative tendencies but how we say here: "tutto il mondo è paese"; I'm not able to translate but it meens that all the world is town, everywhere we go we find the same (good or bad) habits like at home and the human being is similar everywhere with his frailty, his flaws, his strenght and his values.
I am so sorry I can't english better because I wanted to talk about the lost of spirituality and the arrangend marriages but I'm not able :(

Other questions!
At school do you have the religion hour? Is it a compulsary subject?
Do you study sanscrit at school?

Nothing like religion hour or studying sanskrit for me, neither for my son. I don't know about other schools

@Smitha, yeah am back! we all want to be young all over again, don't we??

@Dely Nope no religion schools AFAIK, sanskrit isn't a compulsory subject, it's optional in some of the schools and very few do pick up that subject!

Liked ur quote, that's true! And not to belittle it, i was reminded of this only other foreign language funny quote that i know of:
"Quid quid latine dictum sit, altum videtur"
meaning: "Anything said in Latin sounds profound!"

What means AFAIK? Here it is difficult to find lessons of sanskrit but the only one who would be interested to study it are the ones who practise yoga and want to study thoroughly the holy writings (shastra). I have studied latin at school but I don't remember anything :/

Who is a famous indian singer? I know only carnatic music!

Umm....religion hour?? Now that's a new one....the thing is, i haven't heard of a single school where they have religion hour. You see, India accomodates almost all the major religions so having a religion hour is sort of impractical!
As for sanskrit, my mom's a postgraduate in the subject but i was never really interested in it. We had sanskrit in school from 6th grade to the 9th grade but after that it was optional!

Dely wrote: "What means AFAIK? Here it is difficult to find lessons of sanskrit but the only one who would be interested to study it are the ones who practise yoga and want to study thoroughly the holy writings..."

my sister-in-law has actually done a PhD in sanskrit, but she is settled in the US now
AFAIK means 'as far as I know'

Sorry Dely, yeah, that's what i meant with AFAIK, that's a bad habit i need to avoid, especially in sites like this.

Dely when someone talks of Italy my mind wanders off to Venice!! :) have u been there??

Yes! I was once in Venice and it is very nice. But it is also stincky and full of tourists and everything is expensive (even a coffee in the bar). I have some pictures in the album, I must search them and I will show you in "our pictures".
We went with the school when I was young and we went also to see an exposition of Andy Warhol.

Hey guys, get to the new thread War of Words! Let's start Debating!!!

dely plz do put up the pics :) ive been obsessed with venice since the time i saw ITALIAN JOB :) and that is ages ago :)
i want to go there someday and sit in a gandola moving thro the city :)

I was not in the gondola because it is really too expensive. It is romantic but not good for the wallet!
The pictures will arrive as soon as possible.

Curiosity about Tamilnadu.

Once I have seen a documentary about India and the reporter has shown something about Tamilnadu that captured my attention and my curiosity.
I don't remember anymore the name of this "thing" but it seems there are some people (I don't know if pandit or brahmins) that if you tell them only the date of birth they take a little piece of paper, already written, and there is all your history, your past and if I don't go wrong also your future.
It was amazing because everybody who went there told that everything was true! Some people also changed their lifes thanks to the things who were written on these pieces of paper.

Do you know if this is true? And which is the name of this custom?

This is very true. My uncle & my best friend got the exact information about themselves. The information is written thousands of years ago by a sage called Agasti wrushi(we call a sage as 'wrushi').

@Dely: Something more about above topic:- One has to give only finger prints & not his/her Birth date. Name & birth date will be there on that paper. Besides there will be names of parents & siblings; & names of wife, sons & daughters if the person is married.

We(Indians) lost a lot of knowledge, especially about astrology.

So it is really true. But how is this possibile?
Perhaps there is also something about me but I will never go and read it.
Do they make this "thing" (how can I call it) only in Tamilnadu?

Why do you say that you have lost knowledge? I think your astrology (that is different from ours) has given something more to knowledge.

Its not only in Tamilnadu. Those are ancient & are preserved. That "thing" you can call as fortune strip. Maybe your strip can't be there. There are few lakhs of theme. No current astrologer can do this now, so I said we lost the knowledge. In fact there are many ancient things we can't do now (can anybody build a pyramid now?)

I thought there was one fortune strip for every one of us. But it is really interesting and amazing how such things are possibile.

Nowadays I don't think you can find even a single genuine astrologer.. incl those using fortune strips.. May be in the past they might have had it.. But I could not believe that they had a strip for each person, it could've just been the exaggeration..

Of course I’m not the right one to pass the judgment on them as I never tried it. There are some of my friends who still believe in it and say these are true. Also they say these people still have so called fortune strips for each person based on birth date (in some cases) and some offer to take the strip based on your finger prints..

Education System: Indian education system needs a serious thought. I am a student. Like me,many other students grouse about the system. Do we have any other option?
Where on one side we have international schools taking vulgar fees giving education to the elites, we have government schools which have 0 fees and so as to not compete with the fee amount, give 0 education to the deprived and under-privileged. But nowadays the trend seems to be reversing. Its worth a mention about 'Super30',Bihar which tutors students from extremely poor background to gain admissions into IITs.

The students have every reason to complain about the kind of syllabus they are forced to study. The syllabus is under par with what what is going on in the world. I am studying engineering and I can tell you it is pathetic. The word 'Research' is pushed into antiquity. Active learning is not encouraged. Exams are projected as dreads and nightmares. They are like standing at the edge of a cliff. If you pass the exam, you are back to the mountain base. If you fail, you fall off the cliff and break your skull. There have been several incidents of suicides in our country for failing in exams.Why can't every exam be just another exam and not a life-changer?

Right from class 10,we write board exams and we are so unnerved. Next is the entrance exams, we lose half our lives. During my engineering, I've written over 150 exams in all forms(internals,externals,lab exams). It's no exaggeration. If a person conceived imparting education as setting exams to make life harder for students, that person be damned!!

@Dhanya: Agreed. I have completed engineering, but hardly 10% of what I learned is useful in practice. Education should be knowledge oriented & not exam oriented. And sadly, our education system has become a business.

Thanks Anbu. I believe everything is true about these fortune strips. If once I will organize a journey to India I will surely come also to Tamilnadu and I will search for it!

Dhanya, don't think that here there is a better situation. Here too the education system is tragic because of many problems:
1) not always the teaching programme is respected because a lot of teacher make what they want and do not carry if the children are prepareted;
2) the new minister of education sayed she wanted to cute money who was wasted for the schools but she went to cut also the money that schools and university needed;
3) the italian master degree is only a piece of paper because the universities don't respect the programme of Europe. I think it is not the fault of universities but again fault of the minister of education who doesn't changes the right things. Italian university doesn't respect the parameters of Europe;
4) here there is no work for people with a master degree. Sometimes after graduated they must work for many years to improve and they don't receive a good salary. It's also because of this that many youngsters still must live with their parents, they don't have enough money to live alone;
5) if somebody is rich or is the son of an important man he can buy a master degree and perhaps the youngsters who wants to study but don't have money don't go on or must study very hard;
6) the fees are very high also here and we must spend a lot of money for books;
7) because of the lacking workplaces and because of the lack of money in research centers most of the best researchers go away from Italy;
8) we have also vocational schools who should teach a work but they don't do it because there is no organisation with offices and firms;
9) there are a lot of new buildings for students but they don't open and stay there going down because of bureaucratic problems or because of the mafia (she is everywhere).

@dely: As i said, it is completely about belief. There may be some genuine persons, just that i dont belive there is someone. BTW in Tamil it is called 'Naadi Jodhidam'. No one will know if you say fortune strips. :-)

@Dhanya: Everyone has the same thoughts about indian education system. Even I felt there is no practical use of some of the things I studied. But we cannot say we need to learn only things that we can use practically.

Theory is important. We just need to learn to relate the practical things with whatever we studied theoritically.

World is improving fast. I agree that Indian education system is not able to cope up with the outside world's speed. But we are a young country, we do not need to draw comparison with Europe and America. Our education system will change, only thing is it will take time.

@Anbu: No doubt our education system will improve. But only rich people can afford that improved system. Fees of good PRIMARY schools today r more than what my engineering fees had been.

Sunny,I agree all the good schools are for rich now.. I think these will be affordable to all in sometime in future..
You can say even then there will be some more advanced available for rich kids.. Yes, that's true.. But that is the problem of our economic and social systems not of educational system..

Is the indian education system private or public (of the state)?

I have heard you have also many schools opend for philantropy: the Paramhansa Yogananda school and if I don't go wrong also Ramakrishna Mission has some educational centers. Aren't they good?

@ Dely: Indian education system is a mix of private & of the state. Private schools are of good quality but very costly. State schools are free & obviously cheap in quality.
Well, the philanthropy schools are very few & don't have the same kinda education as that of private. Their emphasis is more on spirituality & so very few parents admit their children there.

Hey Dely! Tell us something about Mafia in Italy. I know about Carleone Family becoz of book & movies Godfather. It's a curious topic in India.

Mafia? It doesn't exists!

It is not like in the movies. The Don Corleone families live probably more in America (exported mafia!).
It is quit difficult to talk about mafia because it is everywhere and it is not only shooting in the streets; this happens only a few time and only for settlement, problems between families for the territory. It is diffused more in south Italy and there are different mafia: in Sicily "cosa nostra", Napoli "camorra", Calabria "'ndrangheta"...we have mafia for everybody and for every taste!
Mafia is in politics, this is the worste thing. They decide a lot of things, win dishonestly contracts for making big works (like new buildings, the sweepings etc) and then they begin only the works without finishing them and then keep the rest of the money. Mafia organizes a lot of illegal competitions: horse races, fighting between dogs, fraud with food...everywhere there is something of illegal, 99% of the time there is mafia behind.
Mafia is also "assurance" for shops: if you pay every month money nothing will happen to your shop; if you don't pay perhaps, unfortunately, something happens and you have nomore a shop.
Mafia is also in law enforcement. It's because of this that it is so difficult to catch them, because some corrupt policeman helps mafiosi. If they go to jail somebody helps them to comunicate with the relatives in order to speak about their affairs.
During life, above all in the north of Italy, you never see mafia and also in the south it is difficult to see something because mafia is everywhere but you don't see it and nobody speaks about it, they are scared. If somebody really fights against mafia, if somebody becomes dangerous for mafia, he is dead.

Yeah! Mafia is everywhere, even here in India. The description of Indian Mafia is pretty similar to one you have written above. But here, politicians are more powerful & corrupted. They use mafia & sometimes protect them from police. And yeah, we don't see them but read about them in newspaper.

You have mafia too? I didn't know! I hope it wasn't imported by italians :/

Nope. It's our own. There are number of groups (families, as u call), especially in Mumbai. Few of them have entered in politics & others work along with politicians.

Dely, I am afraid you are not gonna like what I am about to write. It seems to me that you have a very wrong notion about my country. If you ever come to India(and with the kind of interest you have shown it looks like that day is not far) you will be thoroughly disappointed unless you confine yourself to some ashram or math. Here is a small reality check.

According to government statistics in the year 2009 17368 farmers killed themselves just because they were not able to pay off their debts. This translates to a suicide every half an hour by a debt ridden farmer.

One in every three malnourished children live in India according to UNICEF. Half of the children in India are underweight.

We have politicians here in India who are egotistical(and stupid?) enough to unveil their own statues. And you thought your Berlusconi was the limit!

I stop here, but not for the lack of material. Its slightly painful to write about this stuff.

And yes English is our official language along with Hindi. This too has a long and peculiarly Indian story behind it. Just drop in a word, I would be more than glad to recite the tale.

@Kshitiz: I had already a half premonition that India is not like I imagined. It is easy to idealize a country in which we don't live and that we know only thanks to books or documentaries. My yoga teacher came often to India (to study) and they say that it is not like 30 years ago and there is a lot of noise, traffic and that unfortunately many indians have taken the bad habits of occidental countries; there was also a lost of values because many indians wanted to imitate the "modern" occidentals. This is a pity because your culture is so deep and so perfect and many people (not only me) think that India is the cradle of spirituality. A lot of people come to India only for this and I think they find what they want. I think that perhaps they don't live like you, they don't see the defects you see and perhaps they go to live for some weeks in a ashram; I don't think they live like turists.
But this behaviour is understandable because there a lot of youngsters that go away from Italy because of all the problems we have here and they think to live better in another country, perhaps a one they have idealized. Many turists come to Italy and they say it is wonderful but living in a country is different that dreaming of it and I think it is the same thing also with me and India. I am sure I would come only for holiday, despite all the problems we have here, despite Berlusconi :-( I love living here and I think I would not be able to become acclimatized in another country.

Once, reading a book of Tiziano Terzani he said he was in a very little indian village where he could arrive only with mules and there everything was like once. The people who lived there didn't know what a television was and such things and he wrote that there was something amazing because those people were not "contaminated" by modernity and its bad habits and everybody was happy and kind, altruistic and there was no selfishness; perfect people. But he saw also many children who were sick and they hadn't medicines. Even for a light fever they risked their lives. But Terzani says: "if we bring here medicines (who are good) we bring also corruption and bad habits. What must we do? What is right? If we bring modernity in this village, this little perfect paradise will go lost". It is not easy to know what is right and what is fault; it is not easy to know what is better because often we want to do the right thing but who is able to say what is right and what is fault?

@Dely
Very true, it is very difficult to say what is right and what is wrong. I haven't read the book by Terzani but I doubt if the author painted the real picture of a remote village. Its true that in many parts of country people are innocent of the modern technology. But blaming all the evils on modernization and technology is very unfair. People often fall for the theory that before modern technology made its impact the traditional village society in India was sort of a Utopia. Gandhiji too popularized this erroneous notion.

I wonder if the village that Terzani wrote was untouched by the evils of caste system. The much eulogized village society too has its share of evils- and from the times eternity. The lower caste in the village are exploited and made go through inhuman degrading experiences on a daily basis. For an outsider it may not be very evident because these generations of exploitation has made most of the lower caste people indifferent to it. They take it as a part of life, something the have to suffer because of the sins in previous generation.

I think I know why Terzani may have missed out this vital detail while painting the picture of the village. You see Indians are the most racist lot in the world. The color of the skin largely determines your standing in the society. Amusingly the shade keeps on getting darker as one goes down the caste ladder. Brahmins are very fair, Kshatrias (the warrior and the rulers) are fair, tall and strongly build, the Vaishya(merchant class) are slightly dark and the shudras(untouchables) are very dark. (Of course this is a very generalized guide to color of Indian people.) Terzani being a white male must have been respected in the village. That is why he found the village very hospitable. I wonder what an African traveler would have to say about Indian villages.

The place where I live in Delhi has a small population of Africans who come for education to India. These people have a tough time finding apartments for rent because people are reluctant to rent their apartment to a black man.

Like all the cultures in the world we have a lot of good and a lot of bad in our history. And like all the cultures of the world we are unique. You see the good part and I try to highlight the bad one.

Can I suggest a book about India to you?

@dely: hehe.. that s true dely.. I wud say tht india is really a rich source of talented and skillful people in most of the fields but the thing that hinders them from coming out shining is " POLITICIANS". THey rule everything.In everything we have some qualification but to become politician if u were earlier thud that wud suffice them.India is the best country and always remains in the top no1 in the fast developing country. speaking abt the tradition, India believes in ayurvedic and herbal care products. People of older generation did everything with several reasons behind.People due to their ignorance burying down every useful practices to mud.Nowadays people from other countries love india and follow our culture and we (treasons) go other way arnd. Racial discrimination, caste system and corruption plays major role for making India stay behind.They cudn't produce best doctors and engineers due to caste system.I really feel very bad speakin abt my country bad. I love India and its culture alot.THe only final cal for INdia to rejuvenate is INDIAN YOUNGER GENERATION shud take control of everything including politics.The only weapon left out with us people which has power tool to mend the politician is " YOUNGSTERS".As u think India is the origin for yoga , meditation all those practices.Dance , music carnatic all bringout the beauty and reverence to those arts.

Good part of India:
If someone's body is injured (or sick), he should take medicine. If one's mind falls ill, he should Meditate. Meditation is the best gift India has given to the world. There are still thousands of ashramas, like u mentioned Ramkrishna Mission, where spirituality is practiced. More & more people are joining them.
Indian economy's growth rate is 2nd highest in world after China & soon it will overtake China. The so called caste system (which i consider is the worst part of our culture) has nearly vanished from urban areas.
So India is developing at both the ends- spiritual & economic.

Finally I have some time to sit down and answer you with my beloved dictionary!

@ Kshitiz
I understand what you mean and reading your message I remembered of two things I have read but I did not understood because I thought it was me who understood wrong or the things that were written were wrong.
The first thing is Arianism. I have read that Hitler took his ideas from the indian culture (also if he exagerated and has customized them). I could never understand why, because if I read India the first thing that comes to my mind is ahimsa, compassion, dignity and so for me the concept of Arians could not be born in India. I can't connect India with racism because you have there a lot of respect for every human being; you also have a lot of rispect for animals because a Hindu sees God in everything that lives. But then I have read your message above all the part of the casts and the colour of the skin and I remembered that once I have read that black people are so for "punishment" because they were asura. It was hard to read such a thing because for God we are all the same and being black should not be a punishment! There are a lot of black people who are very kind and altruist and a lot of white people who are killers or bad people. It was hard to accept that such a thing was written in one of the Veda. I use the word "punishment" but perhaps it would be better call it bad karma. Is it because of accepting our own karma that many people accept casts in India? It means, the lower cast accepts the bad treatment because they think it is because of their bad karma that they are born in a low cast? But we must also accumulate good karma and so why do the other casts don't help them?
Of course you can suggest me a book! Indeed, you MUST suggest!


@ Anand
Like in Italy, the best "brains" go away because they aren't helped. Here too the youngsters believe one day they can change Italy and make it a better place but I have noticed that even if somebody is honest and wants to make a lot of good things for his country, as soon as he becomes a politician he automatically become or corrupted or he will never have a career. I think it is the system: honest people can't stay in politics, they will be crashed if they don't conform themself to the system.

@ Sunny
Not only meditation but the whole yoga system is a great gift. Unfortunatelly western people want everything in a hurry and because of this here there are a lot of false guru who have deprived the yoga system of their most important things. They don't want to deepener the argument but teach as would they know everything and above all they teach the things that they know people want. It is difficult to find some qualified teacher and the best ones have only a few students because the way of yoga is hard and not everybody wants to work hard to have something. Most part of the people want illumination without doing anything and so here a lot of people teach meditation or asana only to make western people happy and for money.

@Dely
I too am bewildered at the hypocrisy of our culture. It is true that our books asks us to respect every form of life. But it is also true that we developed the most systematic and lasting form of exploitative system ever seen in human history.

Yes it is true that this exploitation has continued so long because of the willful submission of the oppressed. But the things are not so simple. Lower castes are, as a rule, economically most underprivileged. In villages they form the bulk of land less labors. They have to work on the fields of the rich upper caste people. However this is not a simple employer employee relationship. They are also supposed to do all kind menial work for the landlord. The situation actually is very similar to serfdom. They have little choice than to accept the humiliation on daily basis. The law of Karma and simply justifies their position on a spiritual level. It reinforces a system that makes good economic sense for the rich and powerful. Besides nobody takes Karma or spirituality very seriously when it comes to money :P

The book I had in mind was 'India: A wounded Civilization' by VS Naipaul.