J.R.R. Tolkien discussion

I know this is not everyone's cup of tea, but for those who are interested, I was recently privileged to be able to deliver a short lecture on Tolkien and the influence of his Catholicism on his creative works. I was pressed for time (and without access to my collection!) in preparing for this talk, so I admit I leaned rather heavily on J. R. R. Tolkien's Sanctifying Myth: Understanding Middle-Earth for my research; while I don't agree with all his assertions, Birzer has done a very impressive work in synthesizing a vast pile of material into a very readable and cogent book.

But anyway, if you are interested:

Full text of my lecture
video of the lecture (approximately 40 minutes)

Enjoy, and I certainly welcome a conversation!

Thanks, that sounds wonderful, and thanks for posting both links. I will definitely be reading it, maybe not soon, but as soon as I clear some of my currently reading books (that might take a while, as I am supposed to be reading both The Name of the Rose and The Kalevala for group reads this month, I am just a wee bit intimidated).

Yes, thanks for sharing! I just checked it and there are some more stuff I never thought of.

I always felt Galadriel is somewhat like Virgin Mary. Recently I did some reading and found out it is in fact true.

Thanks for sharing!

http://www.touchstonemag.com/archives...
Above is a link to an article by Stratford Caldecott about Tolkien's Catholicism in his work, also search the Touchstone Archives from that page, for other Christian-perspectived articles.

Caldecott's book 'Secret Fire' is also interesting.

And don't forget Tolkien's Letters!

My pleasure

Aldean wrote: "I know this is not everyone's cup of tea, but for those who are interested, I was recently privileged to be able to deliver a short lecture on Tolkien and the influence of his Catholicism on his cr..."

I'm not catholic though protestant. Although I consider my self as Christian (by following Him) and find this link pretty interesting. I'm busy reading other stuff lately anyway I'll save the link on my mobile to check it out soon!

Amalie wrote: "Yes, thanks for sharing! I just checked it and there are some more stuff I never thought of.

I always felt Galadriel is somewhat like Virgin Mary. Recently I did some reading and found out it is ..."
Ah, but Tolkien disliked the thought that LOTR was at all allegorical. So I am sure that he did not intend for Galadriel to be that. I didn't like it when people tried to make LOTR allegorical.

I enjoy all the posts and the great group of Tolkien readers. I know this is a Christian work. Especially when Sam on his journey looks up to stars and recognizes that there is a Great Beyond all this agony and devastation. ( or was it Merry?)

Joanne wrote: "I enjoy all the posts and the great group of Tolkien readers. I know this is a Christian work. Especially when Sam on his journey looks up to stars and recognizes that there is a Great Beyond all ..."
Your comment reminded me of the song Sam sings in the chapter called The Tower of Cirith Ungol in The Lord of the Rings:

"In western lands beneath the Sun
the flowers may rise in Spring,
the trees may bud, the waters run,
the merry finches sing.
Or there maybe 'tis cloudless night
and swaying beeches bear
the Elven-stars as jewels white
amid their branching hair.

Though here at journey's end I lie
in darkness buried deep,
beyond all towers strong and high,
beyond all mountains steep,
above all shadows rides the Sun
and Stars for ever dwell:
I will not say the Day is done,
nor bid the stars farewell."

I like the hobbit poems in The Lord of the Rings. For one thing, they seem most personal to J.R.R. Tolkien himself. I Sit Beside The Fire and Think, by Bilbo Baggins, for example, ends with the lines:
"I listen for returning feet,
and voices at the door."
That sounds like J.R.R. Tolkien thinking of the friends he lost in the First World War, wishing they were still alive and could visit him again. The Road Goes Ever On is another fine hobbit poem, I think.

Yes. Thank you for reminding me of that poem. He did still love the beauties of this world which the Lord made for our joy. There is sorrow and joy still...

I like this thread! I'll have to check out the links. However, I struggle a bit with this subject (even though I'm really interested in it) because I don't know very much about Catholicism. Can anyone recommend some reading to help me fill this gap in my knowledge?

Reno wrote: "I like this thread! I'll have to check out the links. However, I struggle a bit with this subject (even though I'm really interested in it) because I don't know very much about Catholicism. Can any..."

A good book to read on how being a Catholic influenced J.R.R. Tolkien in his writing of The Silmarillion and The Lord of the Rings is Tolkien: Man and Myth, A Literary Life by Joseph Pearce.

Thank-you both, Phillip and Anne Marie! That's exactly what I was looking for. I will check out your recommendations :)

Anne Marie wrote: "Reno wrote: "I like this thread! I'll have to check out the links. However, I struggle a bit with this subject (even though I'm really interested in it) because I don't know very much about Catholi..."

Err... should maybe point out that at least some of those groups are associated with Traditionalism, rather than real Catholicism. TAN, for instance, published openly schismatic, anti-VII books by 'priests' not recognised by the church, and its founder was apparently himself a member of a fraudulent 'military order' opposed to the pope.

While it's not my place to judge anyone's religion (not having one myself), I'd say some of their material may not be entirely "safe" in terms of getting a sense of what mainstream catholicism actually beleives.

Here is an alternate view of LotR by a Buddhist: http://www.arrowriver.ca/dhamma/tolki...
a Muslim: http://www.henrybayman.com/the-hobbit...
a Hindu: http://www.quora.com/Can-you-identify...
and a Jew: http://thejewniverse.com/2011/the-jew...

Have your choice! :-D

Thank-you again, Carlos and Anne-Marie! The idea of actually visiting a church and attending mass is a great one. (I was raised in the United Church and never really understood what mass is about...) (When you use the terms mass and rite, are these the same ceremonies [is that an appropriate word, even?] or are they two different things?) Right now I live in Japan, so that would be a bit difficult, but when I return to Canada in the fall, I'll have to ask my Catholic friends about it :)

Codex, thanks for the links, I'll check them out now. I lean towards Buddhism myself so I am intrigued!

Reno wrote: "Thank-you both, Phillip and Anne Marie! That's exactly what I was looking for. I will check out your recommendations :)"
As a Catholic myself, I might be able to help with questions, but there is also this link which leads to The Catechism of the Catholic Church, which might be daunting, but you can generally find what you are looking for pretty easily.
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015...

A 'rite' in this sense is a set of rituals - different churches have developed different rites over time. Essentially, mass is what is performed, and the rite is how it is performed. By extension, the 'rite' can stand for the whole church that practices that rite. There are about two dozen rites currently in use by catholics, though the overwhelming number use the Roman rite. This in turn has several forms that are sometimes loosely known as rites - most famously the Tridentine mass (the one used between 1570 and 1960).

Codex wrote: "Here is an alternate view of LotR by a Buddhist: http://www.arrowriver.ca/dhamma/tolki...
a Muslim: http://www.henrybayman.com/the-hobbit...
a Hindu: http://www.quora.com/Can-y..."

What a such good articles. Too interesting.

Tolkien's myths wonderfully reflect the beauty of Catholicism (brought about by his devotion) in all its aspects. Tolkien's myths are somehow, so to speak, paintings of great Catholic values and beliefs that are often overlooked by many. Great alternate views by friends from other faiths!!