The History Book Club discussion

This thread is for the Jane Eyre Challenge being conducted by goodreads. This thread is open for discussion of that book.

by Charlotte Brontë

Here is the link to the discussion guide for those folks interested:

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/97...

And the guide:

http://photo.goodreads.com/misc/12966...

Since I don't really get out to see movies very often, that is the tough part of the challenge for me! Regardless, I've read Jane Eyre before, although it has been a while, and it would be fun to talk about it. I have to see if I can fit a re-read into my busy reading schedule...

No problem; it is sort of historical fiction but I am setting this up - because of the goodreads challenge.

Worth discussing even if it takes awhile. This will only be a single thread discussion so use the spoiler html.

(view spoiler)[Like so - this is a spoiler (hide spoiler)]

We would use the bracket < then the word spoiler then another > in front of the spoiler itself.

At the end of the spoiler, we would use a < then a /, then the word spoiler followed by >

Everyone is welcome but make sure to use the goodreads spoiler function.

If you come to the discussion after folks have finished reading it, please feel free to post your comments as we will always come back to the thread to discuss the book.

The rules

You must follow the rules of the History Book Club and also:

First rule of Buddy Read,
Respect other people's opinions, no matter how controversial you think they may be.

Second rule of Buddy Read,
Always, always Chapter/page mark and spoiler alert your posts if you are discussing parts of the book.

To do these spoilers, follows these easy steps;


Step 1. enclose the word spoiler in forward and back arrows; < >

Step 2. write your spoiler comments in

Step 3. enclose the word /spoiler in arrows as above, BUT NOTE the forward slash in front of the word. You must put that forward slash in.

Your spoiler should appear like this;
(view spoiler)

Chapter 1
(view spoiler)[This is a sample (hide spoiler)]

And please mark your spoiler clearly like this;

State a Chapter and page if you can.
EG: Chapter 24, page 154

Or say Up to Chapter *___ (*insert chapter number) if your comment is more broad and not from a single chapter.

Examples of spoiler;
Chapter 24 pg 367

(view spoiler)[This is a test. (hide spoiler)]

You may start anytime you would like on this today April 4th. I will put an end date of four weeks out but feel free to still post. We have to include start and end dates for our planning and scheduling purposes.

Make sure to follow posts 4 and 5 to ensure that your posts are not deleted. This is a single thread discussion so remember that folks are at varying points in the reading. Thanks and enjoy.

Okay, I'll be starting later this week. I have read it before, though, so if anyone is ahead of me I may still join in discussing things that happen later in the book than where I am. Spoiler function, here I come! (hee hee)

It'll be nice to discuss with Bentley and Kristi and anyone else who joins in.

I officially started last night. Actually, I ended up starting the Introduction, which includes a lot of biographical material about Charlotte. Interestingly, Charlotte's official, contemporary biography (written shortly after she died by someone who knew her), was written by Elizabeth Gaskell. I would have had no idea who that was, except a friend sent me "North and South" by Elizabeth Gaskell a while back and I read it earlier this year.

by Elizabeth Gaskell

Very interesting Elizabeth S.

By the way, I'm reading a Penguin edition of the book:
The cover doesn't look exactly like this, but mine does have the pencil sketch of Charlotte Bronte on it. There is an introduction of about 25 pages by a Q. D. Leavis. It is one of those introductions that refers to plot points throughout the book and contains a lot of spoilers. (Why is that a common trait of "introductions?")

I just looked up Q. D. Leavis and found her on wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q._D._Le... Her full name is Queenie Dorothy Leavis. (If my name were Queenie, I'd use "Q." as well. Yeesh.) She is a literary critic. In the Jane Eyre introduction, Leavis makes some interesting comparisons between "her predecessor Jane Austen and her successor George Eliot." Leavis also mentions that Dickens was writing his novels at the same time. I hadn't ever sat down and thought through how these authors related to each other in time, and how they may have influenced each other.

Authors mentioned:
Q.D. Leavis, Jane Austen, George Eliot, and Charles Dickens

I think it is the same with American writers. Look at how the Alcotts, Emersons, and Thoreaus were contemporaries and living next door to each other (Concord, Massachusetts). In fact, if you visit there today, you can visit their homes all on the same street. And even take a short detour to Walden Pond and see Thoreau's cabin where his friends just walked to see him on a frequent basis.

Louisa May Alcott

Henry David Thoreau

Ralph Waldo Emerson

Wow, how interesting! I didn't know that. I'll have to remember that for if I make it back to MA.

You would love Concord (right next door to Lexington which is great for history too). Concord is a lovely town and there is so much history there. Re-enactments on the old North Bridge.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Nort...

Even Nathaniel Hawthorne lived for a time in Concord at the Old Manse (the Emerson home).

Nathaniel Hawthorne

Travel talk like this always makes me want to run out and spend the rest of my life seeing all these great sites. But I also want to read all these great books (almost 600 on my goodreads to-read list), and I also want to improve my piano skills... there just isn't enough time in life for all the good things. :)

Yes I know but there is so much history in New England; it really is worth a trip.

One of the things I am watching for this time as I read is Charlotte's use of books within Jane Eyre. From the introduction in my copy, "One of the interesting and original features of the novel [i.e. Jane Eyre] is the use made of literature - books are referred to for their symbolic meaning." In other words, the books that Charlotte picks to have her characters read help tell the story and help set the feel.

In the very first chapter of Jane Eyre, we see Jane spending time with History of British Birds. The introduction says, "This book provides the child [Jane] with images of storm, shipwreck and disaster, Arctic desolation and Alpine heights, death and mysterious evil -- images which seem to express her own bewildered sense of what life is like, since they correspond with her condition in the home of the Reeds, cruelly oppressed both physically and morally and above all suffering in her isolation from a passionate sense of injustice."

It is one of those subtle things that is fun to notice. Even if you don't notice how Charlotte is using books, it still helps create the feeling and set the stage. And isn't it interesting that this was something "original."

by Thomas Bewick

By the way, I hope no one minds if I call the author "Charlotte" rather than "Bronte" or using her full name. I think it is nice to distinguish her from her sisters, but still not have to put the full name in every time.

Sisters: Emily Brontë and Anne Brontë

Bentley wrote: "Yes I know but there is so much history in New England; it really is worth a trip."

Oh, definitely. It is on the list. It is just a long, long list. Sigh.

Be sure to follow message five when you move off of chapter one.

Bentley wrote: "Be sure to follow message five when you move off of chapter one."

Yup, all ready.

Bentley wrote: "I think it is the same with American writers. Look at how the Alcotts, Emersons, and Thoreaus were contemporaries and living next door to each other (Concord, Massachusetts). In fact, if you visit..."

there is a Teaching Company course on Emerson which is very good and goes thru these connections.

I would reccomend it if one is inclined to such lectures - maybe available at the local library

I've gotten really big on the Teaching Company since I am enjoying my fist selection so much. Expensive to buy, but my library has a lot of them. I don't see the Emerson one, however. Too bad.

(Don't forget the author link, Vince. I know it kinda slips by when we don't mention a specific books.)

Ralph Waldo Emerson

Now, back to Jane...

I had not noticed before that the book was originally published as if it were an autobiography and merely edited by Currer Bell. What a weird name for Charlotte to pick. Is Currer a more common name elsewhere in the world? I've never heard of it.

In addition, I'm glad we are mostly beyond the days when women had to use male names to get their books sold. Although it does go both ways. I know at least one author who is a man using a woman's name, since the books are more written for a female audience.

Madeleine Brent

Interesting tidbit Elizabeth. Currer (interesting).

Okay, now really back to Jane. Sorry, I keep getting sidetracked.

Chapter 3

(view spoiler)[In this chapter we see Jane reading Gulliver's Travels. It is so interesting to think of a child believing this to be a work of nonfiction. Gulliver is described as "a most desolate wanderer in most dread and dangerous regions." I think this is another example of Charlotte using a book for its symbolic meaning. At this point, Jane is wandering into new and dangerous territory, the territory of rebellion.

I'm also impressed in this chapter with how well a child's response to questioning is described. If you read Mr. Lloyd's questions and Jane's answers without also reading Jane's thoughts, you would probably have a very different picture of what was going on. There was so much Jane wished she could have expressed. And the mature, narrator Jane also pointed out other areas of miscommunication, where Mr. Lloyd asked a question, but to the child Jane it meant something different. Even now it is difficult to communicate with children for these same reasons.

by Jonathan Swift (hide spoiler)]

Bentley wrote: "Interesting tidbit Elizabeth. Currer (interesting)."

I take it you don't know any Currers either?

Nope...and glad you are off and running. Good job with your post in message 25. Folks, Elizabeth has done it perfectly and when talking about the book this is exactly what it should look like for any discussion of the book. Remember this is a one thread discussion and folks could be anywhere in the book and we do not want to spoil it for anyone. Please note above that the comment which is hidden from view in the spoiler html cannot be seen unless clicked open. Additionally, Elizabeth has indicated for everyone what chapter this comment is for. So folks reading earlier chapters would not click "view spoiler".

Good job Elizabeth.

(blush)

By the way, just realized I forgot to add the book cover/author links back in message #16. Going back to fix it now.

Elizabeth S wrote: "(blush)

By the way, just realized I forgot to add the book cover/author links back in message #16. Going back to fix it now."

Just when I was praising you so highly - (smile)

A couple of thoughts on things in Chapter 4:

(view spoiler)[
In other books, it seems that when someone's eyes twinkle, that means they have a sense of humor and/or are friendly. But Mr. Brocklehurst has eyes that twinkle, and he is certainly not friendly. No sense of humor, either. Anyone else find it strange that Charlotte uses the word "twinkle"?

My favorite part of this chapter is when Mr. Brocklehurst is questioning Jane and asks her if she knows how to avoid going to hell. She answers, "I must keep in good health, and not die." Too bad Mr. Brocklehurst didn't have a sense of humor. (I will admit, as a parent, that when my kids give me "clever" answers like that, it is very aggravating.)

I think the character of the Brocklehurst family is clearly displayed by Mr. B's story of when his wife and daughter visited the school. Makes me growl.
(hide spoiler)]

Discussing Helen after finishing Chapter 9:

(view spoiler)[
I appreciate that when Charlotte created Helen she didn't create a perfect little angel. Interestingly, one of Helen's virtues is that she is perfectly aware of her faults.
(hide spoiler)]

And you are chugging along just like the energizer bunny.

Stilllllllllllllllllllllll going!

I just started reading this a few days ago, so I don't know if comments are still allowed. But anyway...

Through Chapter 9:
(view spoiler)[Having seen the 1943 movie with Orson Welles, one of my most vivid memories is of poor little Liz Taylor (as Helen Burns) standing out in the rain holding up two irons as punishment. I was very glad that this wasn't in the book, and that Lowood wasn't nearly as horrible as I had remembered. (hide spoiler)]

I am enjoying the book a lot. Let me know if the time is up for posting here.

I finished reading, but I didn't post much more here because I was kinda talking to myself. :) I'd be happy to go through it again with you.

Vicki wrote: "I just started reading this a few days ago, so I don't know if comments are still allowed. But anyway...

Through Chapter 9:
[spoilers removed]

I am enjoying the book a lot. Let me know if ..."

Response to your Chapter 9 comments:

(view spoiler)[
I've never seen a Jane Eyre movie, so I can't really compare. But thinking through the events in the book, I would think that any of them would have a more emotional impact if seen in movie form versus read in a book.

That Lowood stuff is an interesting section of the book for me. On the one hand, it was a pretty miserable existence for Jane and the other girls. On the other hand, the duplicity of the Brocklehursts is ironically humorous.
(hide spoiler)]

By the way, this is your first time reading Jane Eyre, right?

Vicki, comments are always allowed and both of you are adding them the right way so that folks can jump in any time. I am also behind.

How far are you, Bentley?

Yes, Elizabeth, this is my first time reading the book. I keep wondering what it would be like to read it without knowing the plot. Was that your situation?

I'm now up to Chapter 22, and I'm very impressed by her characterizations, particularly Mr. Rochester, but also Aunt Bell and cousins Eliza and Georgiana. And even though I know the plot, I keep wanting to see what happens next.

It has been a long time since I first read Jane Eyre. I've read it 2-3 times since then. I don't even remember if I was tweenish or teenagerish, but I'm pretty sure it was before I graduated high school.

I do remember that I knew nothing about the plot when I first read it. I remember being surprised by (spoiler for the ending of the book following, but someone who has seen the movie will know) (view spoiler)[Jane ending up with Rochester in the very end. I thought he was kinda a jerk the first time I read it. This last time through, for the first time I saw a lot more of how he loved her earlier in the book. Perhaps because this is the first time I've read it since I was married myself. Sounds sappy, but I think I know a little more about love now than I did the first time through the book (hide spoiler)].