Dark Tower discussion

Post your spoilerific Gunslinger thoughts here.

Ok, I couldn't wait until April. Also, please note, I just finished re-reading all 7 books in the Dark Tower series from Aug 2010 to Feb 2011, so the books are all pretty fresh in my mind.

So when I started re-reading (for the 3rd time) The Gunslinger I was really interested to note the reference in the beginning to a feeling of momentary dizziness. Of how this dizziness made Roland think of the horn and his old friends.

Since I just completed the Dark Tower and read how it all ended this really brought forward to me the sense of a skip or jump in the story back to this point in time.

Anyways... Just thinking...

I remember the yawning sensation from the last time I read the Gunslinger.

It's funny how many hints there are in the Gunslinger as to how the Dark Tower will end. During Roland's conversation with the man in black, Walter says something like "You never learn. You never will," or something to that effect.

Wasn't Sheb from Tull the piano player in Wizard and Glass as well?

Dan wrote: "Wasn't Sheb from Tull the piano player in Wizard and Glass as well?"

Nevermind. I forgot about all the little hints about the rest of the series that King worked into this edition.

I'd read the original version several times, but this is only my second time through the updated version and I'm to the point where Roland has killed the town of Tull.

I'm not sure if I like the original or the updated better yet. Seems like King was so happy to finally have the story done that he couldn't resist dumping hints and clues on every page. Part of what made the original so odd and intriguing was all the things left unsaid. I'm sure it'd seem plenty weird to a newbie, but I'm thinking that original recipe may be better, even with its things that don't match what comes later.

Also, any thoughts on if the two different versions reflect Roland at two different times through the cycle? Like the first one is supposed to be an earlier version where he hadn't learned/remembered quite as much but in this one he knows a bit more like suddenly wishing he had the horn and events are a bit different?

Kemper wrote: "Also, any thoughts on if the two different versions reflect Roland at two different times through the cycle? Like the first one is supposed to be an earlier version where he hadn't learned/remembered quite as much but in this one he knows a bit more like suddenly wishing he had the horn and events are a bit different? "

I was toying with that idea on the way to work this morning. Maybe Roland gets a little more human every time through the loop.

The original recipe seems less tied to the other books and has some inconsistencies. I like the revised version better but I think some of the changes were a little ham-fisted and killed some of Roland's mystique.

I think it's a testament to sai King's skill as a writer that even on my sixth or seventh go-round, I was still hoping Roland wouldn't let Jake fall.

I really like the idea that the original was one trip through the cycle and the revised was another and there is one more to come, maybe this time completely different and Jake does not fall.

Books-treasureortrash wrote: "I really like the idea that the original was one trip through the cycle and the revised was another and there is one more to come, maybe this time completely different and Jake does not fall."

Definitely. Maybe Roland wouldn't lose his fingers if he had Jake with him.

Thinking about it, if King was feeling sassy, he could rewrite all of these books as the 'new' version with Roland carrying the horn and maybe saving Jake.

Kemper wrote: "Thinking about it, if King was feeling sassy, he could rewrite all of these books as the 'new' version with Roland carrying the horn and maybe saving Jake."

Maybe the movies and tv series will be the revised version with the horn. I'd definitely read a rewritten version of the Dark Tower saga.

The first time we are introduced to the number 19, is in the Town of Tull. The first time I read it, I did not realize, but now....

Roland ends up staying several days in the Town of Tull, he knows the MIB has left something nasty for him, so why does he stay?

Stephanie wrote: "when Roland lets Jake drop and faces the Man in Black in the daylight, the MIB says "you progress Gunslinger, you progress." Which I take to mean that each of the other times through the loop he sa..."

Interesting.

Books-treasureortrash wrote: "Roland ends up staying several days in the Town of Tull, he knows the MIB has left something nasty for him, so why does he stay?"

Good point. If he wouldn't have wasted days in Tull, he might have caught up with the Man in Black before the mountains.

Dan wrote: "Books-treasureortrash wrote: "Roland ends up staying several days in the Town of Tull, he knows the MIB has left something nasty for him, so why does he stay?"

Good point. If he wouldn't have was..."

I'm not sure why Roland didn't move on. Maybe MIB did a little hoodoo to make him lazy for a bit or maybe Roland is like the Fantastic Mr. Fox and just has to pull the trap release to see how it works.

But I don't think Roland caught MIB until MIB wanted to be caught. Earlier or later, I don't think MIB would have talked to him until he had put Roland in the position to sacrifice Jake.

Stephanie wrote: "when Roland lets Jake drop and faces the Man in Black in the daylight, the MIB says "you progress Gunslinger, you progress." Which I take to mean that each of the other times through the loop he sa..."

Maybe I read that wrong, but I took it as Walter taunting him about doing evil shit to get to the tower. But maybe he was commenting on something Roland changed to advance further that time around?

I am still in Tull, so I will read the next part very carefully, but maybe if Roland didn't stay in Tull, then he would never have met Jake. The MIB, sent Jake afterall. (This is fun!)

Kemper wrote: "Stephanie wrote: "when Roland lets Jake drop and faces the Man in Black in the daylight, the MIB says "you progress Gunslinger, you progress." Which I take to mean that each of the other times thro..."

That's what I got, but who really knows for sure. But I took it to mean he finally got over that stumbling block of continuously trying to save Jake. For me that would have been anyone's first instinct, to save the one you love.

Refresh my memory folks....at what point does the loop start? At the beginning of the Gunslinger or just before the weigh station?

The loop starts at the beginning of The Gunslinger. (Actually, right at the "The man in black fled across the desert.." line.)

I've always had the impression that Roland always lets Jake die. My theory is that one of the things damning him to the loop is that he has always sacrficed Jake to get there. MIB taunting him with that "You progress" line to me is more of the same stuff he teases with him like the whole "Death but not for you." and "Life but not for you." stuff.

Which brings up the question, if Roland did save Jake, would the Tower fall? King repeatedly brought up Roland's lack of imagination and relentless but straight line nature. He never seriously considers if there is a way to save Jake and get to the Tower. Does having the Horn at the end of DT7 somehow give him a way to find the Tower without having to let Jake die?

On a side note: When we post here, you might want to make sure you don't have the Add to my Update Feed box checked or delete the post from your profile updates to prevent accidently spoiling any friends who haven't read it yet.

Roland briefly considers letting Jake get a couple years older and taking on the Man in Black together. Maybe in the loop where Roland has the horn, that's what they do.

In that scenario, it's not hard to imagine them going back to the way station and meeting up with Father Callahan way before the events of Wolves of the Callah. Remember, the man in black backtracked to the way station at some point after Roland and Jake left and drew Callahan there and gave him the black orb from Maerlyn's rainbow. If that's the case, Roland and the man in black never have their palaver, Roland never hears his fortune, never gets invested with the power of the Drawing, and never gets his fingers lopped off.

Upon further reflection I do believe Roland was under a spell to stay in Tull.

Roland once again in this version feels a sense of déjà vu, like he has done this all before. How could he do it different next time. Perhaps fight the spell and leave early?

When in Tull, the fat preacher-woman, calls the Crimson King Satan, but later when Roland confronts her, she says she is carrying a child, the Crimson Kings child. Why would she call Satan the Crimson King and condemn him and then later admit to and want to carry his child?
Why make the town think Roland is Satan. I also thought it was very interesting how Nort, the 2X dead guy had the mark of a large and purple cloven hoof pressed into his forehead after his second death.

What do you think all this talk of Satan means? Perhaps just the fight of good (The White) versus evil?

Also, how does Roland kill the child she is carrying, I did not get that.

At the end of the big Tull shootout all the bodies disappeared over night, where did they go? Very eerie

As a side note:
It is very endearing how Roland describes his mother when he was a little boy. It shows his love for her, shows him as a little boy and really does reflect his streak of romance.

Yeah...I don't how he killed it either.

I'm a newb to the books, longtime King fan. I re-read Gunslinger and am now reading The Stand. Anyone have insight in pursuing paths of characters that appear in DT and other books? Eyes of the Dragon and Salem's Lot jump to mind first as examples of books explicitly linking into other books.

Andrew wrote: "I'm a newb to the books, longtime King fan. I re-read Gunslinger and am now reading The Stand. Anyone have insight in pursuing paths of characters that appear in DT and other books? Eyes of the ..."

The story Everything's Eventual in the collection of the same name has a character who comes into play later. I think there is also a Roland short story in that one. Hearts in Atlantis story also has a character who pops up late in the game but is pretty important. (The movie version of that one with Anthony Hopkins cut out all the DT stuff.)

Andrew wrote: "I'm a newb to the books, longtime King fan. I re-read Gunslinger and am now reading The Stand. Anyone have insight in pursuing paths of characters that appear in DT and other books? Eyes of the ..."

Also Insomnia has a piece that comes into DT in the last book, but I'm not a fan of that one.

Kemper wrote: "Andrew wrote: "I'm a newb to the books, longtime King fan. I re-read Gunslinger and am now reading The Stand. Anyone have insight in pursuing paths of characters that appear in DT and other books..."

Correction. The story from Hearts in Atlantis is called Low Men in Yellow Coats. Hearts in Atlantis refers to another story in that collection. But for some reason, the movie they made called Hearts in Atlantis is the story Low Men in Yellow Coats.