Nobel Prize Winners discussion

Please post your discussions about 'Sula' here.

Bruce wrote: "I find it striking that Morrison's female characters, even when damaged, are generally strong, whereas her male characters, often badly damaged, are usually weak. The same was true to a large exte..."

I think you're right, Bruce. Morrison doesn't seem to like men very much at all, she seems to delight in potraying men as feckless, bullying and generally unreliable - perhaps she's right, I'm sure all communities across the world have their share of men who conform to this stereotype. But as with any such generalisations, there is a silent, unnoticed majority who defy this general rule.

The death of Chicken Little was an accident, wasn't it? Please say it was an accident. What puzzles me is that Nel and Sula don't seem to have attempted to save him, get help, or anything. They are only concerned about whether Shadrack had seen what happened. Somehow this just doesn't ring true. Anybody have any thoughts on this?

Bruce wrote: "A couple of thoughts, David, with which you may or may not agree:

1. Anent the Chicken Little episode, and I agree that it was an accident, I think the girls' reactions must be interpreted in the..."

I take on board what you say about the Chicken Little incident, however I do find it astonishing that two girls could behave in that way, but I accept that the cultural context may be the determinant here.

I also accept your view of the gender relationships in that particular society, but even the most sensitive of her male characters here, Ajax, is a total commitment-phobe, and again that may have something to do with the cultural context.

For me, born and brought up in rural Wales and having lived in urban England for over thirty years and now retired back to rural Wales, I find Morrison's characterisation of males as well beyond my experience and, as such, bemusing.

Finished "Sula" today. Wow! I find that I enjoyed this book more than the other two of Morrisons' that I have read. Toni Morrisons' writing is so lyrical and magical to me. It swept me up in it and carried my mind far away.

I thought there was much similarity in how Sula and Nel didn't try to save Chicken Little, and how Sula didn't try to save her mother, Hannah, when she was burning.

I have finished ‘Sula’ and, like Carrie, I have found it much more readable than the one and a half other Toni Morrison books I have read. I liked its rawness, its earthiness. I liked the characterisation and the way the story is put together. I liked its strong, stoical women and I liked the random chaos of the characters lives. I also liked Sula’s anarchic tendencies. I didn’t like the unequal society that was being portrayed, nor the apparent unquestioning acceptance of racial inequality. Above all I didn’t like the grinding poverty that seems to permeate the community. I know times were different then but it still shocks and infuriates.

One thing that struck me is that not only is the Bottom a black community it is also an illiterate, or at best, a semi-literate community, and as such, the oral tradition must be very important. Which led me to wondering what it would be like to live in such a community, and the thing that struck me is that my cultural references would not come from the written word but entirely from the spoken word and this makes me wonder how much reliance would I be prepared to place on what people tell me. Would I be more or less sceptical than I currently am? These days we rely so much on the written record that I find it difficult to imagine living in a world where there is no written record, or if there is, it was written by others, usually strangers who may, or may not, have an axe to grind. If I’m not making much sense here, try and think what it would be like if you couldn’t read or write and that most people you associated with couldn’t read or write either. Who could you believe and how would you know what to believe?

Bruce wrote: "I was struck by your comments in your second paragraph, David. I agree. A few years ago, aware that my life is intensely oriented toward reading in all its manifestations, I went on a two-week "r..."

Hmm.. I've often dreamed of a life without television, so far it's remained a dream, but a 'reading fast', now that I would find very difficult indeed. I'm curious as to why you wanted to do this?

David and Bruce, I so enjoyed reading your comments on "Sula". It is so nice to be a part of this group of intelligent readers! It would be torture for me to go even a few days without reading. Growing up in my family one of us would often say "I need some words", indicating that we were missing our reading time. One year, our TV died, and instead of buying a new set, we purchased a piano. My Mom and sister and I took piano lessons and my Dad got out his old violin and took some lessons as well. It was one the best times that I remember as a family. Unfortunately, we did eventually get another TV.

Couple years ago first I decided to cancel my cable. I can easily say it's the best decision I took for a long time. Since then my reading and other activities of mine have been improved. I have to admit in the beginning it was little difficult to get used to.

I have finished Sula and I believe that was my forth Morrison book but first time reading in English and also the first book after I moved to the United States of America. Now I know for sure, certain things get lost even if you read the best translation possible. I am looking forward to read more Morrison books.

-where she had always wanted to be-free of the possibility of distraction.

I am glad that I joined this group. I enjoy reading your comments and the books we have chosen to read.

A friend sent me an email which has been doing the rounds. It reads as follows:
My Living Will
Last night, my kids and I were sitting in the living room and I said to them, 'I never want to live in a vegetative state, dependent on some machine and fluids from a bottle. If that ever happens just pull the plug.'
They got up, unplugged the computer and threw out my wine. The little bastards.

I'm more than half-way through reading Sula but I don't find anything in the characters that makes me want to keep reading, other than mild curiosity to see how it turns out. Re the Chicken Little incident, yes it was an accident because they were expecting him to come up laughing and spluttering. Nevertheless their actions were thoughtless and self-interested. Later in the book Morrison describes the fatalistic acceptance of misfortune that seems to have been characteristic of the inhabitants of Medallion. Perhaps it's this acceptance of fate which explains why the girls don't attempt any rescue or intervention.

Jan wrote: "A friend sent me an email which has been doing the rounds. It reads as follows:
My Living Will
Last night, my kids and I were sitting in the living room and I said to them, 'I never want to live in..."

You've thrown a new light on the notion of 'dependency', now where did I put that remote control?

Getting started with the novel. I know I'm a bit late, but between work and university, I've found it hard to keep up with my Goodreads commitments!

Lauli wrote: "Getting started with the novel. I know I'm a bit late, but between work and university, I've found it hard to keep up with my Goodreads commitments!"

Great stuff, it won't take you long to read. Look forward to your comments.

I finished reading the novel today, and I loved it. To begin with, I have long been in love with her use of language. I think she has a way of putting things which is quite unique, so that alone makes her novels worth reading. I also liked the way she portrayed the characters, especially the relationship between Sula and Nel, which is probable THE love story in the novel.

As regards the portrayal of men, it is true that in most of Morrison's novels the focus is on women, and men are usually "blurry" characters. However, I recommend reading Song of Solomon, which not only is a beautiful novel, but it is also Morrison's exploration of black manhood.

What I like about Morrison's depiction of the black experience in America is that it is not just whiny and self-victimising; she can also be quite critical of power relations within the black community, and especially about the bigotry with which some of the women judge and condemn others (like Sula). This is a recurring element in Morrison's work, and is developed to perfection in Paradise. I've found the reading of her novels really worthwhile, as each one throws light on and develops minor aspects from the others.

I finished reading it, out of mild curiosity to see what happened, but it still does not appeal to me. I didn't identify with any of the characters, didn't find them interesting and found myself thinking, "Oh well, back to the classics!" Every now and then I make a little foray into the world of modern literature, usually to be disappointed, so back I go to the classics corner of the library. I'm always open to ideas, however, so if anyone has discovered something wonderful, I might be tempted once more out of my corner.

Jan wrote: "I finished reading it, out of mild curiosity to see what happened, but it still does not appeal to me. I didn't identify with any of the characters, didn't find them interesting and found myself th..."

I fully understand your point of view here. I came to 'Sula' after fairly negative experiences with 'Jazz' and 'Beloved' and, although I liked 'Sula' better, it didn't do a lot for me. Nevertheless, I appreciated having read it, not least because I think it is good to experience different writing styles and even if you don't like what you read, you appreciate your preferred styles much more intensely after having read 'outside your comfort zone'. I'm sure we'll tempt you out of your corner again in the future.

You can always try...:)