† Saved by Grace † discussion

Anyone hear about the massacre of the Fogel family in Israel? I ask if anyone's heard about it b/c as usual mainstream media is ignoring the blatant hatred of Palestinians for Israelis.

The 12 year old girl came home to find her parents and 3 of her 5 siblings(one being a newborn baby) murdered.
And the response of the majority of Palestine? Celebration! Dancing in the streets and handing out candy.
Random act of terrorism? Don't think so. It's disgusting how evil people can be.

http://israeljewishnews.blogspot.com/...

tht is sad:(

It is :( I hate how the media has the public sympathizing with Muslims as the victim of a horrible stereotype.

I know, it's ridiculous. By being Muslims they've chosen to align themselves with the terrorists and people get upset because we see it that way.

And even most of the "peaceful" Muslims support terrorism, even if they don't choose to act on it - it's part of their beliefs.

Sandy wrote: "And even most of the "peaceful" Muslims support terrorism, even if they don't choose to act on it - it's part of their beliefs."

Exactly. There's no such thing as a peaceful Muslim. Not a true believer at least.

*imagines a liberal fuming over our "hate"-comments* =P

lol, I was thinking that too.

Sandy wrote: "*imagines a liberal fuming over our "hate"-comments* =P"

what does that mean?

**STAR** wrote: "Sandy wrote: "*imagines a liberal fuming over our "hate"-comments* =P"

what does that mean?"

Our negative comments about Islam and Muslims would be seen as hate speech by liberals.

Thank the Lord no liberal is reading this! :)

Kristen wrote: "**STAR** wrote: "Sandy wrote: "*imagines a liberal fuming over our "hate"-comments* =P"

what does that mean?"

Our negative comments about Islam and Muslims would be seen as hate speech by liberals."

oh....k?

luhvBOOKS wrote: "Thank the Lord no liberal is reading this! :)"

lol

:D

**STAR** wrote: "oh....k? "

Did I confuse you? I don't always explain things the best...

No ur fine I'll explain it to her. She just doesnt know what liberal means

Oh.
Yeah, i didn't get that. lol

lol ha!

<---- probably qualifies as that liberal who abhors hate speech

again, the role of Christians is to spread love and acceptance, not hate and judgment

Chris wrote: "<---- probably qualifies as that liberal who abhors hate speech

again, the role of Christians is to spread love and acceptance, not hate and judgment"

Well, we weren't exactly using any 'hate speech', it would just seem that way to certain people.
We are to love the sinner and hate the sin. Acceptance only goes so far.

Chris wrote: "<---- probably qualifies as that liberal who abhors hate speech

again, the role of Christians is to spread love and acceptance, not hate and judgment"
"hates" hate speech..sorry that was funny lol...that was "punny" lol again

Kristen wrote: "Chris wrote: "<---- probably qualifies as that liberal who abhors hate speech

again, the role of Christians is to spread love and acceptance, not hate and judgment"

Well, we weren't exactly using..."

True...we arent hating anyone...just giving our opinion in an open discussion. do you disagree that terrorism is bad?

No, but I disagree with directly associating Islam with terrorism. Those who use Islam as a justification for terrorism are extremists, just as those who use the Bible to justify violent and terroristic acts are extremists of Christianity.

"The quest to control base instincts such as greed, lust, and cruelty and to seek spiritual purity is known by Muslims as the "great jihad." Featured widely in the Koran, the "great jihad" is a person's most important internal struggle."
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/ne...

Chris wrote: "No, but I disagree with directly associating Islam with terrorism. Those who use Islam as a justification for terrorism are extremists, just as those who use the Bible to justify violent and terror..."

I think you are confusing the word "extremist" with "misuse". Terrorists are yes, extremists, however they are following what the Quran says not misusing it:
*Qur'an 9:5, known as "the verse of the sword," declares, "Fight and slay the pagans wherever you find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem."
*"Take not the Jews and Christians as friends....Slay the idolaters [non-Muslims] wherever ye find them.... Fight against such...as believe not in Allah..." (Surah 5:51; 9:5 etc..).
*The recompense of those who wage war (refuse to become Muslims, or reject Islam) against Allah and His Messenger and do mischief in the land is only that they shall be killed or crucified or their hands and their feet be cut off from opposite sides, or be exiled from the land.(Surah 5:33)
*"The punishment of those who wage war against God and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;" (Surah Al Ma idah 5:33).

The terrorists seem to be acting out their beliefs. Extremist, perhaps, but that's what the religion says. Those who do not agree with them are not true Muslims. Islam is a religion of terrorism. The word 'Islam' literally means submission or surrender.

Nowhere in the Bible will you find any justification for violence against anyone. "Extremist" Christians are missionaries - those acting out what the Bible says - "Go ye into all the world and preach the gospel".
Those using the Bible to justify violence are misusing it, they are not "extremists".

Nowhere in the Bible will you find justification for violence against anyone.

HAVE YOU NOT READ THE OLD TESTAMENT????

If you are going primarily off information provided by that website that you mentioned, I can understand why you are so misinformed. Again, I would suggest that if you are interested in finding out the actual beliefs of Islam and in reading the Qu'ran, that you look at a translation from a scholar fluent in both English and Arabic (such as Michelle Campos) and not something some random person with no credentials posted online.

Chris wrote: "Nowhere in the Bible will you find justification for violence against anyone.

HAVE YOU NOT READ THE OLD TESTAMENT????

If you are going primarily off information provided by that website that you ..."


Yes, I have read the Old Testament. It is a record of what happened, not rules to live by for us. That's the purpose of the New Testament.

I'm not interested in anyone's "interpretation"(or blatant lies) of the religion.
I'm interested in what the religion actually says - what's in the Quran, which anyone can read, regardless of "credentials". You can't misinterpret something that says 'kill the infidel wherever you find him' That's a blanket statement to everyone over time.
The things in the Bible are illustrations of God's judgment and was for specific people at a specific time and not to be applied to us today.
Not the same thing at all. Anyone using that to justify violence is very very wrong.

What I was referring to by Michelle Campos is not her 'interpretation' of the religion, but the translation work she has done because many of the 'quotes' on that website from the Qu'ran are inaccurate. My point being, if you are going to attack a religion and someone else's beliefs, you should at least make sure you are working with accurate information.

And are you saying that we are not to live by the rules of the Old Testament any longer?? Because there are numerous rules for living written in the Old Testament that are still expected to be followed today.

Chris wrote: "What I was referring to by Michelle Campos is not her 'interpretation' of the religion, but the translation work she has done because many of the 'quotes' on that website from the Qu'ran are inaccu..."

Again I say, the "quotes" from the website have direct links to the actual Quran.
There are many inaccurate translations of the Bible floating around out there too, but wording aside, the ideas are pretty much the same.
Just for clarification, I'm not saying they're all acceptable and the same, but you're not going to find one that's SO far gone from the others that you have opposite extremes like what you're implying about the Quran - that the inaccurate translation is all about terrorism and conquest and the accurate version is all about peace.
It's not going to happen. It's all the same book.
It doesn't really matter if it's word perfect, because honestly, there's so many errors and contradictions, that it really doesn't matter. Besides, look at the results. Look at the roots. There's nothing good about it.

"And are you saying that we are not to live by the rules of the Old Testament any longer?? Because ther... "

Definitely not what I said.
I said, there's no justification for violence today, found in the Bible.
The things people try to use as that, are examples of God's judgment and not meant to be followed today. Such as stoning the rebellious child.
It was Old Testament Law, which Jesus freed us from. Not to mention that most of those things were specific commands, like when the Israelites attacked a given enemy - it was God's judgment on a wicked people. God still judges, just not in the same way.

All I meant was that everything in the Old Testament is not to be followed verbatim.
Specific commands, obviously are - the 10 commandments. But I don't think you'll find too many others.
And we can still learn from every single thing in the OT.

I've realized that this whole thing has gotten out of hand and has, for me at least, just turned into a prideful argument for me to try and prove I'm right.
My main point is that we should show Christ's love to all people, even Muslims, and not judge them. That is God's place. Given the actions of many Christians and the hate they have shown towards people of other beliefs, I am very compassionate towards some of the other groups of people, Muslims included. I am going to drop this now and just pray that all Christians are able to love Muslims and show them the correct way to live without attacking them or their beliefs or showing the hate that they have witnessed from so many others.

Chris wrote: "I've realized that this whole thing has gotten out of hand and has, for me at least, just turned into a prideful argument for me to try and prove I'm right.
My main point is that we should show Chr..."

Well, I wasn't trying to argue..just sticking to what I believe - which I supose, could be considered the same thing...
However, I agree, it's pretty much just going in circles.

But, yes, I agree with most of that - it's not my intent to say we should...shun(I guess) anyone or show any form of hatred.
I just mean, certain things are not ok and need to be spoken out against.
Love the sinner, hate the sin.

Amen.

...wow I missed this conversation. Anyone still alive here? :)