Queereaders discussion

Discuss here. Titles do not have to be exclusively LGBT.

Two great sites on queer historical fiction.

Bosom Friends - Lesbian historical fiction - http://bosomfriends.wordpress.com

Speak its Name - gay historical fiction - http://www.speakitsname.com

Nan Hawthorne
originator of Bosom Friends

The poll for June/July 2011 includes of of the most beautifully written historical novels with gay characters, Ruth Sims' Counterpoint: Dylan's Story.it is a sensua pleasure to read, her prose is so gorgeous.. and the characters are even better. AS someone I know said, with Ruth the simple act of dropping a hat on a bed has more secual tension than a whole book of erotica.

Nan Hawthorne

OK, now my turn. My latest novel, currently on Amazon.com and Smashwords.com, is a historical novel about a woman who chooses to live and fight as a man in the doomed Crusade of 1101, BELOVED PILGRIM. It will be on Kindle soon, though you can download it for kinle on Smashwords now. i a workng on getting the book onto Amazon.co.uk .

Elisabeth, the protagonist, discovers something she did nto expect along the way.. that true love can come in the form of a woman with honey colored eyes.

You can see a book trailer, reviews, and more at www.nanhawthorne.com

Nan Hawthorne
Author, BELOVED PILGRIM

Of course, I'll have to mention one of my favorites, which inspired the ideas for my historical fantasy story, A Lieutenant's Love, and it's
Maria McCann's As Meat Loves Salt.

I found it to be exquisite, especially in that I enjoy realistic gay/bi characters and stories which aren't HEA formulas. It does have gay/bi characters and I know it's considered GLBT as a sub-genre, but primarily it is just solid historical fiction to me.

"The reader is immediately drawn into the world of Jacob Cullen, a darkly charismatic former servant turned soldier whose sincere cravings for love and understanding are too often marred by his jealous and suspicious nature which creates a mystery the reader discovers in well-timed increments.

After seeming to escape a troubled past, he falls in love with a fellow warrior, who passionately accepts and teaches him of the love between men, yet their own obsessive behavior threatens to destory everything they hoped to build.

Although written in first person, which so many people tend to be biased against because it has been lamentably done so many times, this author does it well. So well in fact, you forget your self and literally are drawn into the emotional conundrum which is Jacob. At times you can hate his viciousness but somehow you never lose empathy for his struggle to find out who he really is, and what he really wants.

For myself, I love history, I love food and I love good descriptions and an in-depth yet not overly heavy tone. Maria strikes the perfect balance with her extensive knowledge of the customs and lifestyles of the people in that era of England. Yet not only that, but the dynamics of politics and societal class are conveyed to her readers without being boring or academic.

This novel is proof positive a woman can very well write not only a good book involving gay or bisexual male characters, but do an outstanding job of capturing and revealing some of the unique dynamics such relationships have, plus heart pounding sensual scenes which are seared into your imagination long after you’ve turned the last page. The power struggles, the twists of love and hate which reflects one’s own personal doubts and biases: this novel has everything."

That's my review. It's one book I will never ever trade.

I've that book (As Meat Loves Salt), Red, and been lackadaisical about picking it up. Sounds like a keeper based on your review.

Next month's selection Counterpoint: Dylan's Story is an elegant period piece or historical fiction in disguise. I loved this book and am currently trying to review it.

I use a strict definition of historical fiction. It much include real events and personages from the past, but not be biographical.

Sergey wrote: "I've that book (As Meat Loves Salt), Red, and been lackadaisical about picking it up. Sounds like a keeper based on your review."

I know 1st person narrative it's to everyone's liking, but I thought the book particularly well-done, especially in that it's a debut novel.

Fellow Travelers is amazing. While it doesn't exactly qualify as a romance or go very far back in history, I, as the reader, do feel the strong themes of love and the sense of the period setting. The prose is pretty and concise. Highly recommended.

Gay Hisoorical Fiction

A new online community and discussion group created to offer a welccoming and relaxzed place to chat about the works of LGBTQ hitorical fiction authors and to help build a history for people whose history has been squashed.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gayhist...

or send an email to

gayhistoricalfiction-subscribe@Yyahoogroups.com

nWe also have a Facebook page.

Nan Hawthorne
Author: Beloved Pilgrim
www.nanhawthorne.com

That sounds fascinating, Nan. How is your group defining Gay Historical Fiction? HF means different things to others.

BTW, the link is misspelled, correcting:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gayhist...

The Persecution of Mildred Dunlap by Paulette Mahurin, is a historical fiction lesbian themed novel set in 1895. I recently interviewed the author, and it sounds quite interesting and strong.

I just finished reading Marion Husband's The Boy I Love trilogy (The Boy I Love, All the Beauty of the Sun and Paper Moon) set between 1919-1946 they're just wonderful, elegant books.

I am looking for good, accurate portrayals of gay life in the late fifties. My absolute dream would be a book set in Chicago in the fifties. (it's research for a novel I want to write someday soon.) Any suggestions anyone?
Thanks in advanced

Rachel wrote: "I am looking for good, accurate portrayals of gay life in the late fifties. My absolute dream would be a book set in Chicago in the fifties. (it's research for a novel I want to write someday soon...."

Have you read Whistle Pass?

Any with an interest in a love story set at the time of the Second Punic War between Carthage and Rome might enjoy my Thunderbolt–Torn Enemy of Rome , available from Smashwords and Amazon in print and ebook formats. And coming early next year, an all-consuming love story set against the Mahdist War in the Sudan, 1884–87, called A Life Apart .

Roger wrote: "Any with an interest in a love story set at the time of the Second Punic War between Carthage and Rome might enjoy my

Thunderbolt–Torn Enemy of Rome

, available from Smashwords and Amazo..."


Sold!

The cover is gorgeous, Roger. Did you do the artwork yourself?

Looks good, Roger.

Another novel with a historic background, this time the war in the Sudan in the 1880s when the armies of the Mahdi swept out of the desert and captured Khartoum. Available now at Smashwords and Amazon (softcover version as well). A Life Apart

Nancy wrote: "The cover is gorgeous, Roger. Did you do the artwork yourself?..."

The covers for Felixitations (contains historical chapters), Thunderbolt and A Life Apart are by my partner, Oliver Frey, a.k.a. Zack, who has been internationally renowned for his gay art and comic-strip stories for years. There is a website with lots of his work on show at: http://zack-art.com.

Your partner is Oliver Frey?

Oh, good lord. This is like the time I was sitting in the Chicago Eagle, and the guy I was with said casually, "That's Chuck Renslow over there." I mean, I used to spend hours tracking down your partner's art online. (This was in the years before I'd cottoned on to the fact that the art was available in print form, and presumably before Mr. Frey started his own website.) His art was so often mentioned online that I soon had Classic written across his name in big bold letters.

These days, I'm more into gay literature than art, so I'll have to check out your creations. But thank you for linking to Mr. Frey's website.

I haven't read this yet but I intend to: Fortune's Bastard. On Shakespeare's two gay Antonios, from Twelfth Night and Merchant of Venice: he makes them one and gives him a history. As a great believer in Shakespeare's writings as a gay man--and the Twelfth Night Antonio meant a lot to me when young, I'm keen to try this.

Looks interesting Bryn. Please left me/us know what you think of it. I'd hope it was true to the period.

I'll demand that of it, Kernos, and I'll warn you if it isn't. --I want to ask him about his research on gay life in the times. I love Louis Crompton Homosexuality & Civilization (and I love Stephen O. Murray's books for worldwide) but always need more history.

I'll record one in this thread, that I thought highly of. Young Shakespeare and Marlowe, both lovers of men. Not Wisely but Too Well

My review: http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...

I'd love to talk more about historical research for gay lives. Maybe this isn't where, but where else?

I wrote this for the GLBT Bookshelf website--on that subject, in my case. I'll apologise if it's far too much to copy here. Starved for discussion, see.


#
My books are historical fiction with a major gay character. I identify as queer and I feel both an urge and a commitment to include the queer - even when I write about Genghis Khan. As a matter of fact his story has high slash potential: him and his oath-brother, whom I, and not I alone, believe to have been in love with him. It comes across - to me - in the original texts.

Here are quotes from The Secret History of the Mongols, written shortly after the death of Chinggis Khan (as he is more accurately known). First, a verse on andas - sworn brothers, a steppe tradition.


Those who swear to be brothers,
Between the two of them, they have one life.
They never forsake one another,
For each defends, in the other, his own life.


Temujin and Jamuqa said unto each other, from old times this has been the way andas love one another. Our oath, once and twice sworn, let us seal three times over, and pledge to love one another thus, as of old... When Temujin and Jamuqa loved one another, they loved one another for a year and for half a year.


Lastly, Jamuqa to Temujin: Your star and mine burnt in emulation. You eclipse me. I tried to rival you, but in every circumstance of life your fate was with you, and mine was against me.

Excerpts from the start and the end of their story, that runs through this epic-chronicle, its spine. From love to rivalry and a twenty years' war on the steppe: Jamuqa almost steals the story from Temujin, the future Chinggis Khan, as he almost steals history. Nevertheless scholars talk about the fascination, the obsession Jamuqa displays throughout for Temujin, and there's speculation about the two of them. Perhaps the most outright comes from Michel Hoang, in his biography Genghis Khan:


Did the sworn brotherhood conceal some other intimacy? ...the Mongolist Paul Pelliot claims not to know the significance of the line, 'they slept together under the same blanket'. However, the clause 'they loved each other', repeated four times in just a few lines, lends weight to the theory that this was a special kind of friendship taken to its conclusion... The shaman's prophecy does little to dispel the equivocal character of Jamuqa.


More often scholars are concerned to rebut these vicious rumours. In his Genghis Khan: Life, Death, and Resurrection, John Man writes ...they slept together (this does not imply homosexuality; sodomy became punishable by death under the code established after Temujin became khan).

Now there's a rumour for you. Four or five years ago, press in China happily announced this death penalty: a reconstruction, by a research institute obviously proud to claim a world first in anti-gay legislation (in the 1200s?). But to read historians of sexuality - Louis Crompton, Stephen O. Murray - is to learn what questions have to be asked about such simplistic statements. This one is so conjectural and uncritical as to be not worth the newsprint, and I was sad to see the very silly headlines that went around the world.

My Jamuqa is a gay Mongol in the 13th century, and I want to explore his situation, which, if there's one thing guaranteed, wasn't simple.

Fascinating, Bryn. Are there translation problems with these works? I suspect so. In what language were they written?

I've been meaning to ask you if your are familiar with Mongoliad series by Neal Stephenson. I Have found some for his HF about more recent events compelling.

Hi Kernos. I can't take the 'Mongoliad' seriously though I like the name. But then I am very fussy about my Mongol fiction.

There are translation issues, oh yes. 'The Secret History' was written in Mongolian. The trouble with Genghis Khan's legislation, though, is that we don't have any Mongol original--just reports in Persian and other neighbour languages.

So when they happily use the word 'sodomy', tell us 'sodomy' had the death penalty, that has been through several translations. Louis Crompton goes into what that word for instance meant at different times and places, and you see how problematic these terms are, how they need specific cultural study. History books on the Mongols won't be aware of gay studies, nor the issues involved. So we get blanket statements, as if 'sodomy' were self-explanatory, but I have at least learnt it isn't.

I would imagine you would have to be very careful about the use of the word "sodomy" in a cultural/historical context, especially in the case of migrating conquerors like the Mongols, who often seem to have considered anal rape of male prisoners an exercise in cultural as well as physical domination, and so would not have even begun to have thought of the action as homosexual in the least. (And in fact couldn't have because the first expression of the label "homosexual" seems very recent.)

In modern historical texts it's probably impossible to avoid using modern words in a modern context, or lose the reader altogether, but I think each new usage needs its context established somehow within the narrative so the reader might consider what it meant to the historical characters. Otherwise it's like those early 20th-century art critics labeling Hieronymus Bosch a surrealist painter…

And thus the old Italian proverb Traduttore traditore—The translator is a traitor.

Roger wrote: "...especially in the case of migrating conquerors like the Mongols, who often seem to have considered anal rape of male prisoners an exercise in cultural as well as physical domination..."

I've seen this behaviour attributed to armies, widely. Mongols weren't known for it. There was one incident reported, from late in their conquest history, and by then, God knows where they've learnt the behaviour. More an anti-homosexual action I should think, one with negative thought on homosexuality.

I really enjoy Louis Bayard historical fiction. I see he has a new one out that I've just put on my list of to read. The School of Night

On days when I'm feeling particularly decrepit I start defining "historical fiction" as anything that took place before I came out. In some ways anything pre-stonewall might even be called pre-historic.

In that light... This thread would be incomplete without mention of The Catch Trap

And be sure to check out this Listopia list
http://www.goodreads.com/list/show/55...

The follow-up novel to is now on sale everywhere.

You can read more about the background of Gregory's Story

at:

http://thornysterling.com/2013/07/19/...

I'm excited to let everyone know that Gregory's Story has been nominated as a candidate for Book of the Month for October in M/M Romance Group.

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1...

it's about an eBook for free.
The main personage of the series of my novels is a gay man, and I am not, and I am about to continue. Book 6 of my novel is a historical paranormal adventure written by my dear main character, and Part 1 of the novel is available for free on Kindle. As author, I'd love to know someone's opinion.
http://amzn.com/B00F1TPRPI
The main character of the novel Through The Baltic Looking-Glass Oscar Maria Graf may be called alter ego of my dear main character. A globe-trotter and younger contemporary of Oscar Wilde, a Stenbock-like figure, by his origin and his dabbling in literature, Oscar Graf is much hotter, more active, able-bodied, pragmatic and of greater vitality than Eric Stenbock (1860-1895) whose friend he used to be in virtue of his living in London. Thanks.

Chadham High 1969. Nick Horton has problems. When Jesse Gaston promises to make him a superstar Nick is forced to pretend to be something he's not. But if would-be girlfriends, his dysfunctional family, and a suspicious principal aren’t enough, Nick's hiding another secret; he’s falling in love with Bobby Warren and thing are really getting complicated!

Nick's freshman year is littered with humorous misadventures, run-ins with bullies, unexpected psychedelic explorations, and tender moments of love, passion and tragedy. Can Nick and Bobby find their way in a world where acid rock rules, status is everything and being gay is the last taboo?

Impressed with The Academician set in 12th century China. Very fine historical fiction.

The Prologue and first four chapters of 5-star reviewed Gregory's Story are available to download from Reckless Books in .mobi (Kindle) and .ePub formats.

Gregory's Story is in the lead for the M/M/ Romance group Book of the Month for October – if you would like to keep it there…

http://www.goodreads.com/poll/list/20...

Gregory's Story has been chosen Book of the Month for October in M/M/ Romance Group. My thanks to everyone who voted for Gregory!

Thanks, Don! I hope you (and others) will join in the discussion once it starts.

Not sure if it counts as historical fiction or not but...

Just finished The Nudo Twins by Mark A. Roeder

I personally enjoyed it. It's not very graphic but it does take a look inside a taboo that I've never really understood well in a gay context. The story is set in the 50's in a small town and some of the historical references are a real hoot for people like me who lived through similar situations. I am a bit younger than the Nudo Twins but even ten years later, not much had changed in rural small town America and much of what is talked about was still true when I was growing up.

My full review can be found at http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...

It did not make the first list of finalists published but it's on there now! WHERE MY LOVE LIES DREAMING by Christopher Hawthorne Moss (Dreamsppinner Press) made the GLBT Historical Fiction finalist list for the 2013 Rainbow Book Awards. Fall in love with Frankie Deramus, a sexy Creole riverboat gambler.. Johnny did! www.shield-wall.com

Kit MossWhere My Love Lies Dreaming

Yay! Both A Life Apart and Gregorys Story have been nominated in the Best Historical category of the 2013 M/M Romance Member Choice Awards.

Congrats, Roger! Were you nominated for the Best Cover category as well?

I haven't read this yet (am keen to) but the author says it has lesbian and transexual content. She did a nice blog post on 'new historical novels with gay, lesbian and bisexual characters' where these are present as just part of ordinary life.

Set in China's Ming Dynasty. The Ming Storytellers

Some LGBT historical fiction I've enjoyed (not already mentioned in this topic), most here are historical fiction books that just happen to have gay and lesbian characters:
The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier & Clay
Cry to Heaven
The Hours
The Last of the Wine
The Mask of Apollo
The Night Watch
The Persian Boy
Brethren
At Swim, Two Boys

Nancy wrote: "Congrats, Roger! Were you nominated for the Best Cover category as well?"

Thank you Don and nancy, and yes, for A Life Apart (see post below :-)

Since someone kindly nominated the two books in the same category, which would split the vote, I've opted for Gregory's Story , but A Life Apart is also nominated in the Best Cover category amid some very tough competition, so if any Queereaders would care to vote for it there, please feel free! I've had loads of Facebook compliments for the covers, and I feel Oliver Frey/ Zack deserves wider Goodreads recognition too!